Evidently, this is a divisive and emotional topic. Still, we’re happy that we are talking about it because it’s certainly important to us in the community. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be so heated about it. At the same time, we’d like to keep the discussion respectful. It’s completely fine to express your opinions as long as they aren’t explicitly violating any of the rules, especially promoting hate. It’s respectful and effective to disagree with someone over a passionate topic without calling them offensive names. There is no need to personally attack anyone or a group, and we do not want to maintain a space that is used for creating hateful division.
Remember, we’re here to discuss all matters related to autism, have a place where we can freely be autistic without having to mask, and ultimately create a community. It’s understandable to get heated over topics, but try to remember that you’re responding to another person that may feel emotional about the matter as well.
In other words, please practice human decency.
I never really thought about this like that…
If the term “allistic” offends you: grow up, it’s a new word. Is learning a new word scary? Cis isn’t offensive. Allistic isn’t offensive. If you become insecure because a previously unnamed characteristic or condition or yours suddenly receives a name that doesn’t have implicit negative connotations, you should go work on whatever problem you have.
If the term “allistic” offends you: grow up, it’s a new word. Is learning a new word scary?
I have no particular opinion on the term “allistic,” but what happened to the maxime that each group should get the final say on the terminology applied to that specific group?
Now we’re saying to a specific group “hey, from now on we’ll call you all this new term and you all can just shut up and deal with it, because you don’t get a say?”
Seems like contradicting messages.
Allistics wouldn’t have come up with a term to categorize themselves, because they already see themselves as “the normal” that doesn’t need to be categorized. Save that, I’m not against them choosing a different word - but it would still be chosen by one or a few of them for an unchoosing vast majority.
Exactly like the word ‘cis’ and transphobes, people that think ‘allistic’ is offensive probably use autistic as a slur.
Holy shit this thread is cruel. I scrolled for way too long and started thinking I was pages deep into some general-interest place on Reddit. Nope, it’s c/Autism. Kinda the last place I’d expect to be okay with piles of hateful NTs coming in to point and laugh and talk trash at us.
Also, very agree regarding the terminology-whining. Kinda hard to believe every term non-minority sorts find out about gets screamed about, claiming it’s a slur. Equality feeling like oppression, I guess. Only “those people” get words; everyone else is just “normal.” Grr.
I can’t be the only one tired of the whole, “neurodivergent” crap.
I have ADHD, it’s a disability. I’m not **special**, I’m just fucking broken. Sure, it’s a more depressing take, but it’s more realistic.
Hey. Pretty sure I have undiagnosed ADHD (literally sitting in waiting room to talk to a therapist as I write this), and I feel like there’s a bit more than just being broken. We’re only “broken” because we don’t conform to the currently agreed upon norms. The world isn’t designed for us. And the quicker we can realize that and make personal and societal adaptations to make these “breaks” more standard, well, we’ll all be better off.
My issue is how some people put so much emphasis on societal changes and ideas like “I’m not broken, society is”. Then they just live without any personal adaptations (medications, coping mechanisms, etc) bc “I’m not broken”. Worse, some look down at those who do take medications and try to adapt to the realities of our current society.
Personally I find this form of thinking far more dangerous: I come from a country in which being “mentally disabled” would literally mean me being unable to function in polite society, and being a “retard” is something pretty common, even with adults. The fact I was undiagnosed autistic until I left saved me. Sure you don’t function like everyone else, and yeah, it’s hard - trust me -, but to say you’re broken is basically undermining everyone else that has the same condition as you.
I can see how that can be true in your circumstances. But, in a society where resources are available to you, the social model often leads people to turn down medications and accommodations, because the need and use of them seems unfair. (General “you” use ahead) And that only makes your life worse, given that you don’t live in that ideal society you built in your head.
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Just because something is a disability doesn’t mean you can’t call it neurodivergent. It’s just a broader term that means that you’re different.
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ADHD isn’t a disability for everyone. Plenty of people function fine with it.
If you function fine, it’s literally not ADHD. “Disorder starts at impairment”
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Most of the things in the list above are just circumstances where misunderstandings arise and it’s not uncommon for autistic self-care (like withdrawing, not paying attention, etc) to be mistaken for disrespect.
When I was a kid, these misunderstandings sometimes led to me getting beat up. Now that I’m a larger-than-average adult man, the bullying and schoolyard nonsense doesn’t happen but the misunderstandings and ensuing anger can take the form of grievances that have a way of turning into career-limiting drama. It’ still bullying, it’s just done the way adults bully.
These are all deeply frustrating, circumstantially stupid, and they all arise from an ignorant mistake in which me being inattentive or low on social energy or just having a hard time turns into them ‘feeling disrespected’.
It can be exhausting when people take offense when none was honestly on offer- and the resulting dominance nonsense that sometimes ensues when they’re petty about it has me a little convinced that too many adult people out there really don’t distinguish between respect and submission to their weird dominance games
allistic
the what now
Non autistic people.
The term you’re looking for is “Neurotypical”
Offended by a label now are you?
Can I get a “LANGUAGE IS FLUID” from my normies?
How alone am I in disliking the word “allistic”? To me it feels like an outgrowth of a persecution fetish, literally defining an outgroup. Especially since it has zero mainstream adoption, where “non-autistic” is immediately clear to anyone.
“Neurotypical” is the more appropriate word anyway
not really. Allistic is the opposite to autistic while NT is the opposite to ND. As Neurodiversity covers (much) more than just autism, allistic is more precise when the topic is specifically autism.
That discomfort, I believe, is the point. Flipping the labeling game on its head is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable with the label. That can be used later for empathy.
And labeling it a persecution fetish is projecting. And saying that the mainstream doesn’t accept it so we shouldn’t either is provocative in a post that says “don’t let mainstream lead you by the nose”.
supposed to make you feel uncomfortable with the label. That can be used later for empathy.
That sounds manipulative and dishonest. Perhaps I’m misunderstanding. Might you explain how that works, from either an individual or societal perspective?
I agree we desperately need more awareness and empathy, but I don’t see how adding more synonyms that feel exclusionary helps.
Yeah, this is the same approach that labelling majority as CIS-gender is. Sure, smart and empathetic people realize and recognize what it’s trying to highlight, but others will find it offensive and irritating before, if at all, coming to a conclusion.
The problem with this psychological approach is that it’s projecting to bring down others / the out group, instead of attempting to elevate the disadvantaged straight. It creates a faux us vs them tribalism where there was none before.
Does ‘straight’ (or heterosexual) fall in the same category?
This kind of talk is counterproductive.
Humans are social creatures. There has almost always been some sort of social norm across all of history. Likewise, there has almost been judgement of people who break social norms.
People with Autism have, among other things, trouble following those social norms. Ultimately a lot of the things we do could be considered offensive. The important part is to increase awareness that Autism is a disability and to ask for tolerance.
Meanwhile a lot of ways that autistic people are sensitive in are pretty alien and jarring. There’s a lack of emotional regulation that often leads to disproportionate outbursts. There are sensory issues that can lead to relatively benign things causing said outbursts. There are a ton of things that are simply more disruptive than a neurotypical person getting miffed that someone doesn’t make eye contact.
Considering a shit ton of people took the pandemic as an excuse to avoid people including me is not actually that unusual. We only socialize for survival.
Meh, we have the dance club crowd and the sports fan crowd. I’m part of neither (and sports fans share too many similarities to fanatic religious militants for my tastes) but I understand them.
Introverts are underrepresented in society, but I think this is due to extroverts dominating politics and industrial upper management so polities tend to favor extroverted behaviors.
Also while extroverts enjoy social behavior, they do not enjoy toxic social interaction, as is typical in the workplace. No one wants to be micromanaged and bullied and humiliated by their bosses. I think this figures largely in the telecommuting conflict going on right now.
The important part is to increase awareness that Autism is a disability and to ask for tolerance.
Or, you know, I can demand the reasonable accommodations that are my human right.
It seemed like that commenter was saying “ask for tolerance for disproportionate outbursts.” It seems like you’re saying others accommodating your meltdowns is a human right. Is that what you’re saying?
No, don’t be silly. But an environment where I can do my job without exceeding my sensory tolerance certainly is my human right. If it can be attained with reasonable accommodations.
That’s not my opinion. That’s the law in most of the developed world.
The important part is to increase awareness that Autism is a disability and to ask for
toleranceunderstanding and accommodation.I try to help.
If we’re using the language of disability, ‘understanding and accommodation’ seems to afford its subjects a degree of dignity. We tend not to ask for ‘tolerance’ on behalf of the disabled, after all.
I’ve been trying that maintain eye contact thing, how to they do that? Doesn’t’t the constant screaming in their heads hurt them?
You’ve probably heard this already but, in case you haven’t, try watching their eyebrows or right above them instead. It’s a lot less awkward for some people for reasons I don’t completely understand.
Remember to look away for a moment every ten seconds or so unless you’re trying to seduce or intimidate them! It becomes a routine after awhile. Also, humans are really weird.
If I’m making eye contact with you, I have no idea what you’re saying.
… Um.
Well. This post has been eye opening and maybe a little disturbing.
Anyway I work in sales and eye contact is a must. I find it really hard to pay any attention to what people are saying when I’m looking at them but I’ve practiced enough that there’s, like, a subroutine in my brain that that picks out the relevant information in a conversation while I consciously am not really engaged in a meaningful way. I’ll ask the right questions and it seems like I’m paying attention but I’m really just running on auto pilot.
I’ll finish a video conference or in person meeting thanking God for transcription software because I can’t recall a fucking thing they talked about.
I’ve realized in life that nobody cares about what’s actuallly happening. They are about what looks like it’s happening. I don’t understand it and I never will but everyone wants you to lie to them, constantly. So just give the people what they need.
Once I realized this life got a lot smoother.
Mind you, I hate talking to lawyers, consultants and salespeople who do that (and they’re plenty) and I’m developing aversion to meeting new ones because of it. If you ever suspect your client is autistic, consider the possibility of not actually caring about eye contact, because they’ll probably prefer that.
Kinda burying the lede here. They are all different forms of “questioning their authority”
I dont agree it’s about authority at all. This entire list is about showing disrespect for someone and expecting them to be OK with it.
To allistic people, everything on this list is insulting behavior that will offend them (except not wanting to eat certain foods).
This behavior will work fine with autistic people though. But you can’t expect it to work with allistic people.
Different brains equals different expectations of what is acceptable social behavior. That’s it.
people get right indignant when encountering someone else’s food choices.
i hear the difference between an allergy and an intolerance as if that changes the amount of suffering endured.
Image Transcription: Tumblr
lifeinautismworld
“Autistic people are too sensitive.”
Meanwhile, here’s a list of things that offend allistic people.
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not making eye contact
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wanting to be left alone
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not wanting to take part in a conversation
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using the wrong tone
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showing the wrong amount of excitement
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pointing instead of using words
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not wanting to be touched
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not wanting to eat certain foods
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wearing earplugs around other people
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stimming in a way that does not affect anyone else
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not following traditions
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questioning their authority
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Stop with the Autistic Chauvinism smh
I think they’re more venting about a double-standard than saying autistic people are better than neurotypical people.
In my experience, labeling a divergence is used medically to help deduce the type and amount of treatment (and how much money you can get for it) , and socially to just have a catch-all, casual way to tell peers about your divergence easy in within a minute instead of a whole convo about it. Folk without any divergence don’t need a label for those reasons, so it feels weird to me make one up that further specifies how ‘normal’ or ‘without diagnoses’ someone is. Most folk with a neuro-divergent diagnosis also don’t list all the diagnoses they don’t have, not because they like to be disrespectful but because thats how you use words in a conversation, you try and be a bit concise and efficient while getting your message across. Considering that, it feels pointless to use a word like allistic, pretty much like using the word neuro-typical conditioning, what does that even mean? living life among undiagnosed functional peers? sheesh, how do you tell everyone you’re uncomfortable with your diagnosis without telling you’re uncomfortable with your diagnosis…
I understand what you are saying, but the entire point is underscoring the fact that we may be different but we’re not abnormal. Therefore I don’t call NTs “normal”.
It may seem like a minor thing to get hung up on, but it’s the essence of disability advocacy. We are normal. We are part of society. We deserve to be included.
I don’t think they are all the same, and not all of them cause “offence”.
“using the wrong tone” is by definition wrong, so of course it will cause confusion and irritation.
Same with pointing instead of using your words, like how the fuck am I supposed to know what you mean by pointing lol
