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I mean, kinda but not really. Death threats? Yeah, you’re a definite asshole. Same with slurs.
But, like, we’ve all been assholes in real life. And I’ve certainly been an asshole online, whether it be trolling, saying ez, or “gg…but not you teammate” in rocket league, being an instigator, etc. I’m less likely to troll and be an instigator in real life, and I rarely am. But definitely have been.
I dunno. I don’t consider myself an asshole, especially for being an instigator in RL. Even though I have been, and probably will be again, both online and in the real world. It’s kinda high-and-mighty to just label people perpetual assholes based on if they’re being an asshole online, or if they were an asshole on one occasion.
Like it would be pretty stupid if I thought the OP has a persistent holier-than-thou attitude both on-and-offline based on this one post.
Now that I’m thinking about it, kind of an asshole thing to accuse of someone of, being holier-than-thou. Guess I’m an asshole. lol
Do you think it matters to the people you’re trolling or calling names whether you do it online, over text or to their face? I’m not saying you’re a perpetual asshole, but it seems like you think that’s an ok thing to do online, which makes you an asshole occasionally. Be better man, you don’t know how the person on the opposite side reacts
It totally does matter. I don’t know who’s on the other side of that, or what they’re dealing with.
It does depend on the nature of the trolling. I’m saying these things mostly with hindsight – I definitely don’t troll any more, and when I did, it was really just like getting in reddit arguments and then commenting nonsense. So, pretty benign stuff. I don’t feel much guilt because honestly, while I was being an asshole, I wasn’t ever really mean. And I was young, and I’ve come to terms with the fact that I made mistakes as a kid.
Nowadays my online assholery is mostly reserved for people who initiate trash talk in Rocket League. And even then, I’ll just hit em with “ur bad”. I consider that being an asshole, but I don’t consider myself an asshole because of it.
But I get what you’re saying. I am kinda making it out as if it’s okay to be a dick online. It isn’t. I guess its hard to balance that with the understanding that it is just easier to fall into the trap of assholery behind a screen, or a windshield, or anonymous comment.
Not sure being nice in irl has ever helped anything but me getting treated like a doormat 🤷♀️
The golden rule is actually 2 rules:
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Treat people the way you would like to be treated.
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If people treat you the way - you wouldn’t want to be treated - you’re allowed to treat them the same way back. Or to just walk away…
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The lesson you needed to learn there was that you are surrounded by people who take advantage and you need better friends. It’s like making a peace deal with Hitler and being surprised he broke it. Of course he broke it, he’s a terrible person. You need different allies.
Introspection is key. Are you actually nice or do you just think you are?
Would an average person describe you as nice? I’m not saying you should care what others think, I’m saying you can use what others say as a starting point, especially if it’s someone whose opinion you respect.
I don’t care if racists or sexists call me intolerant, but you can be sure that if my best friend who is a very sweet person said I’m being hateful then I would take that to heart and reevaluate my biases and preconceptions.
Honestly I don’t think about the past very much and I don’t think anyone thinks I’m nice now and I don’t care. Am I an asshole to everyone? Not if you don’t deserve it. Am I nice? No. I’m reliable, hard working, persistent, analytical but not nice. I’m an anti-racist, mutual aid oriented anarchist. My life worked out just fine. I paid off my home and have a family and friends and am winding it all down to relax while the world burns around us.
Honestly, from what I’ve read, you might come off as a self righteous asshole, no offence
None taken, I really don’t care what you think nor does it affect me or my life in any way. I think that only a fellow asshole would take the time to send this message with your shitty walk back.
Fair point
I absolutely agree. Let’s hope our inner assholes vanish one day. Stay strong, bother/sister
Seems like you need to learn how to set boundaries.
I don’t think there is a single person behaves that way online that thinks it doesn’t change the person they are IRL. It’s just online they have the balls to be the person they really want to be.
I know a couple of people (brothers) who definitely thought that online wasn’t real and they could act without any consequences in their real life. This was back in the 00’s when social media was just catching on. They were absolutely awful to real life friends online and then acted like nothing happened in person. They lost pretty much every friend they had as a result of it. I still don’t talk to either of them. We tried to explain to them multiple times that it was absolutely unacceptable behavior, and they thought it was funny.
Oh you sweet summer child. Everyone is the hero of their own adventure.
I never said that they weren’t. I’m just saying I don’t believe anybody looks at their online behavior and thinks ‘thats not the real me that doesn’t count.’
I dunno. I agree and I don’t. I am part of a gaming community where RPing and ERPing is a decent chunk of subscribers. It does not appeal to me, but does that make them a catboi that will lick the back of their paws for a million gil? I kinda doubt that.
There is a big difference between me being “Sir Markham of Viewhampton” online, and playing that role as a total dick, and me being me online and me being a total dick.
If I play Sir Markham as a dick who goes out, woes women, wines them and dines them then dumps them for the next bit of tail that comes along, that is clearly a part I am role playing because I am roleplaying him as that.
But if I come on here as me – as Gabe and am rude, obnoxious, racist and a total twat then it is far more likely that is what I am like in real life.
If I roleplay a wizard in an online game do you think that means I can do magic in real life?
Not sure all! However both our scenarios are fairly apparent where fantasy starts and reality ends. But where is that line in other mediums?
I’m not justifying bigotry or anything else you brought up. I completely agree that they are assholes.
But is shittymorph just a shitty wrestling guy?
Unexpected XIV.
Honestly, if you’re online enough you do start to feel like a lot of people aren’t authentic, and it’s true enough, but I also think that validates the OP in a way. People are living our their fantasies, and they wouldn’t be fantasies if they weren’t appealing.
Yes! But I’m not a WOL with a mansion. I dunno. I hear the sentiment about being a dick and bigotry. We both know that XIV is not about that life and I am happy it’s that way. However I was going down the wormhole of possible exceptions.
XIV has a lot of content to delve into besides just being either a roleplayer or a raider. There’s definitely some unpleasant individuals in certain circles, but yeah we do usually call them out.
I am a raider through and through. That’s for sure. But I do partake in another nuances.
I duno i have definitely seen people argue the internet isn’t real and none of it counts. I think people definitely try to justify it to themself like that. Like if a trans person complains about online harassment, that argument gets used a lot to dismiss it as lesser or not really important.
EdibleFriend isn’t saying that people don’t make that claim, they are saying that those people are being dishonest when making that claim. That they don’t really believe what they are saying.
Several comments here provide evidence to the contrary.
And maybe that’s the problem. The people who are assholes online don’t think about there being real, earnest people behind the other keyboards.
Anonymity and the abstraction of interacting online can and does weaken the sense of social contract for many people, unfortunately.
And it does count. Because what one says online can and does affect others in a real way.
Actually I just need to address this a little further because this is a beautiful example of what I’m discussing. All I did was post my opinion and you came along being a condescending ass about it. Do you believe that doesn’t count towards who you really are?
Wow so touchy. Not only was that not condescending, it was lighthearted. Yet you’re just too fucking miserable to not make it personal huh?
And there’s some very hostile toxicity and insults.
Again…is this not the real you? Do you believe that?
Allow me to come in and analyze both of your conversations.
Firstly, I think you probably misinterpreted the “sweet summer child” thing. I think it is pretty lighthearted, but I do understand how it could come off condescending. You were the first to use an insult, though, for calling the person an ass.
On the other hand, the person also engaged in insult throwing, by calling you too fucking miserable to take something lightly.
Finally, do I think either of you would’ve thrown such tantrums in the real world over such a stupid issue? Absolutely not. Do I think both of you are complete assholes for being assholes to each other online, based on misinterpretation of tone? Also no. Would I talk like this in real life, butting into a conversation I’m not a part of, offering my opinion that nobody asked for, and generally being annoying? Also no.
Does it mean I’m annoying in real life? Probably still yes. But I also think that you are probably not both assholes IRL.
Would I talk like this in real life, butting into a conversation I’m not a part of, offering my opinion that nobody asked for
That’s not super fair to yourself - makes me realize we all have special privileges here… we’re all not part of 99% of conversations yet we’re all welcome to become a part of about 100% of conversations anyway.
BTW I think of our behaviors as drivers as somewhat analogous.
When was the last time somebody cut you off in traffic?
When was the last time somebody cut in front of you in a grocery store?
Spend an hour in traffic, spend an hour in a grocery store… experience entirely different parts of people. A cage (car) and removal from direct interaction (internet) both change our psychology ever so bigly.
I think you’re right on the money in terms of relating the Internet to the car. It’s so similar. Like, why am I calling the person in front of me an asshole for cutting me off? I’ve done that a million times to others. I’m just as bad as them. But because I can’t see them and they can see me, I feel freer with my emotions and words. I think it’s similar with communication on the Internet.
I’ll be honest maybe it was a little lighthearted but… At the same time still condescending and there was no need for it in relation to my perfectly innocent opinion on this post. Especially when it comes down to it he clearly didn’t understand my opinion because ’ everyone is the hero of their own story’ honestly completely fits with my point of ’ people don’t look at their online behavior has not actually being the real them.’
When people are complete assholes on the internet they feel justified. When people said death threats on Instagram they partially believe they were doing the right thing.
And I’ll be honest… Yep. I behave like this in person too. If somebody’s condescending to me I call them on it so… Yep. I would have behaved just like this in person.
Thank you for actually talking rationally about this though :)
I agree with you that people believe their death threats are justified, and probably aren’t like “oh that’s not me in real life.”
But also, for me personally, I find it way easier to be an asshole online than in real life. I’ve definitely said things online (thrown insults, name-calling, etc) that I would never say in real life, and I would probably say, “that’s not really who I am.” But it is, because I said it. But it also isn’t, because I was younger and dumber and more emotionally unregulated. Yes, it was still me who said it. But when you see someone’s face, you see their expressions, their body language, you see them as a human rather than a username. And I understand for me, personally, that I’m more likely to be a dick behind a screen than to someone’s face absolutely unconsciously, so I’ll give someone else the benefit of the doubt there, as well.
In the end I would probably push back against the notion that we are always one person. We all should be capable of kindness and sternness, gentleness and seriousness, somberness and goofiness.
So in regards to your point, I absolutely would use that language in real life and no one I know would be offended by the words ‘sweet summer child’ unless maybe English was their second language. If EdibleFriend responded by getting in my face and calling me an ass and we weren’t in public he would be on the floor very quick. And likely would if he said that to anybody. Analyze that how you will. The internet doesn’t teach social skills.
I mean, I would also use sweet summer child in real life. I have. But people don’t always know it’s a joke, and I understand that. I certainly wouldn’t deck them if they called me an ass, that seems a bit extreme. Probably would go on the verbal defensive, try to explain it was a joke, and feel bad that they took it the wrong way.
But if that’s how you carry yourself through life, I can only say I feel bad for you that someone else’s words would affect you so much as to prompt you to physically assault them. Just seems a bit silly, doesn’t it.
calls op a child
Condescending: 1. having or showing an attitude of patronizing superiority.
Denies being condescendingIt’s a platitude my dude. You can guys can self victimize yourselves all you want - I certainly am not gonna spend time arguing with professional victims.
Lol. No one is feeling victimized by you. You’re just providing the example for the conversation.
I honestly couldn’t have asked for a better example to prove the point I’m making about people being assholes on the internet versus their real life behavior. There was absolutely no need for him to talk the way he did yet here we are.
To be fair, at first I’m sure he didn’t mean to be condescending. I have certain friends that use the “poor child” type phrases like that as well, but it’s usually used for a comedic spin, because the language is from a few generations ago. His following reply was shit though 😆 talk about touchy.
Isn’t “sweet summer child” just a game of thrones reverence calling the other to be a bit naive? Or am i just missing context here?
I’m a background character in the story.
Me too!
There is a distinction between real life and online. Psudonimously posting under a screen name is very different from making real life statements as yourself.
If you chose to be yourself online that is your choice. You can be someone else on the internet. You can choose to be an asshole on ocasion, that’s kind of the entire premise of trolling.
There is no ghost inside you, simultaneously piloting the same meat suit you are, who suddenly takes control sometimes.
It’s you. You said those things. You may have been drunk, you may have been anonymous, but you still said them. If you’re willing to go on a racist tirade online, you’re willing to go on a racist tirade. If you’re going to make death threats anonymously, you’re going to make death threats.
Statements remain true without qualifying where, or how. Because you still did a thing, regardless.
An actor literally says the lines they say, but they are playing a character, those words are not their own. Acting, improv, playing pretend, roleplay, there are plenty of ways for healthy adults to take a role and be a person other than themselves.
Online interactions can do the same thing. Some people choose to be someone else on the internet and that is fine.
The screenshotted comment is from audreyii-fic, someone who chose to represent herself by what is (presumably) her own name. That perspective is very different from the sort of person who would choose to be someone else online.
If you’re in a role play forum and you role play as an asshole, you are correct. If you are on the internet, for example Twitter, and you act like an asshole, it’s because you’re an asshole. Hope that clears up the difference between context.
Be an actor, sure, but an actor isn’t ‘being someone else’ - they’re acting - they’re **pretending ** to be someone else. It is different.
It is different mainly because everyone knows it if they’re in the play or watching it.
An actor literally says the lines they say, but they are playing a character,
Yeah and everyone knows it’s a play. With actors and an audience. Kinda different.
Despite what Shakespeare said, online isn’t a play. Neither is RL. You can still put on a facade or a persona. But in either case it you treat people like shit, you’re an asshole.
You had to know while you were typing that how full of shit that response is, right? On some level, cognitively, you know you’re grasping at straws here.
No. The person choosing to “act” like a dick on the Internet is making the choice to be a dick. They don’t just happen to be a dick in their roleplay or whatever - they’re making that choice.
And it’s not some pretend space where their words and actions don’t count. Being a dick in a multiplayer video game is being a dick to a real person. Being a dick on a forum about a game or show you don’t like is being a dick to real people who play and make those things. You don’t get to copout and say “it’s just a character” when it’s affecting real people. That is your impact on the world. Take some damn responsibility for it.
Also, Audrey II is from Little Shop of Horrors. Check it out if you haven’t. It’s a good flick.
Well said
Do you say the same about those who role-play in video games? Even if I set out with the intent of being someone else in a RPG, I find myself eventually reflecting my own behavior. It’s hard for me to relate to those who can do a ‘complete asshole’ playthrough. Are these people closet psychopaths?
“Yourself” is the totality of everything you do. You don’t get to do stuff and then decide “No, that wasn’t me, it doesn’t count”. If you that you’re just deluding yourself
Too often though, such arguments are used by others in the attempt to define a person by one specific example in ignorance of everything else that person is.
How do you define yourself? Do you throw out the anomalies, or weight them in, or something else …?
I’m talking about personal interactions - online or in person - if that one specific example is the only interaction a person has with you then that’s the only information they have about you. If you don’t want to be classified as an asshole, don’t be an asshole.
You will always be defined by others as your relationship to them, and the actions they know you take. You will always be more complex than you’re observed to be.
You have little say in how others define you.
My toxic trait is that online I code switch to calling out bullshit instead of sitting quietly listening to nonsense
Yeah, now that you mention it, the Lemmy version of me is just like the real version of me except I talk to strangers.
Eh… there are abundant examples of assholes who have learned to pretend to be decent people though.
I think that’s the point, if you’re an asshole online, but tell yourself you’re fine irl. You’re lying to yourself and it shows.
Well then that’s a clear example of someone pretending to be something they aren’t, which contradicts the entire premise. Someone can absolutely pretend to be a saint on social media while being full of vitriol inside. Similarly, expressing anger and frustration on social media does not in any way mean that you’re ruled by those things.
It doesn’t contradict the premise at all. In fact, I think the person I described is the exact person the post is talking about, i.e. someone who is convinced that their actions online don’t translate to who they are irl.
It’s true that one instance of anger doesn’t mean the person is an asshole. The point of the post is that your post history on social media is often a more accurate portrait of your personality irl than some people want to admit.
I disagree with this. The issue is more nuanced than that.
Sometimes people have a bad day now and then, and sometimes a bully needs to be bullied back.
There’s a huge difference between your true self and your societal masks. Just because you don’t act on your base impulses, because of the repercussions, doesn’t mean you don’t have and experience them.
So everyone is an asshole then? This form of thought makes it impossible not to be.
Nah, I’m saying if you naturally have mean thoughts, that you constantly need to suppress, then you’re probably an asshole. I would assume most people are generally good.
That makes sense, but it seems to support the underlying idea that your internet persona matches your actual persona. Like, those nuances and days that are exceptions to the rule happen in the real world just like online.
I think batman was wrong, the joker was right, and realistically it does just take one bad day. Everyone having the capacity for horribleness doesn’t really take away from the nobility of people escaping that horribleness, though, or “choosing” not to engage in it. If anything, I would think it’d make that decision more noble.
At the same time, where does that leave the joker? Does it matter whether or not he “chose” to be the joker, or if he was just predisposed to be that way? I dunno, I don’t really think so. The core reality remains the same, or else there is no/little coherence to reality, and we live inside of a chaotic hellscape. Which I’m not, you know, fully prepared to deny, but more I think my denialism would probably come from the idea that I need to enforce my own coherence on reality, to simply believe in it regardless of the validity.
Somebody stop me if I sound like I’ve lost my mind and this is totally off-topic, though.
There is no division between who you pretend to be and who you are.
This is quite the nice message in view of imposter syndrome too. If you’re being a kind person online then you are simply a kind person.
If you’re being a kind person online chances are you’re a paedo incel.
Well fuck you and I hope any semblance of kindness towards you is merely a facade to take advantage of your ignorance :)
I truly don’t understand what motivates trolls like you to post rage-bait. What part of it do you enjoy, and what makes this worth your time?
That’s not trolling, that’s a reality.
absolute lie!
I am funny when I’m online.
It’s the greater internet fuckwad theory
That isn’t being disputed, it’s just not a good excuse that someone can do it because everyone else is
The post literally says, “If you are the kind of person who shouts death threats in a strangers social media dms, you are no different than [the] kind of person who shouts death threats to a stranger in the steeet.” But we have over a decade of data showing that they are very different people, that anonymity and online detachment cause otherwise normal people to behave this way, and that awareness of the effects of this behavior can curb it. I get that the post is trying to create a moral equivalence, but A) that is simplistic view of digital aggression and B) calling people assholes online just contributes to digital aggression.
It’s the anonymity which is the door opener. The assholeness was inside the whole time. Take away laws and law enforcement and then people will show their real faces. That’s the point of the post.
This shares some similarities on how getting caught is a good deterret regarding crime rather than severity of punishment.
Again, no, studies show that it’s more complicated than that; it’s not just that anonymity lets people be assholes, but that anonymous online interactions cause people to behave differently. There are a lot of theories on why, like that non-verbal communication makes people assume the worst intentions in others, or that typing on an app makes you feel like you’re talking with yourself, but it’s definitely clear that anonymous online interactions don’t just enable negative behavior, they create it.
People do the same thing when they’re diving because of the pseudo anonymity you have when you’re in a car.
The flip side of that is that non-anonymous speech can’t be trusted: there is no reliable way to determine whether the speaker is speaking truly, or just trying to avoid unpleasant consequences.
I think this as well. People in on-line video games are so quick to flame, troll, and ruin a game. But Ask them if they think it reflects poorly on them and they’ll either get defensive, victim-blame, or say they were just joking. They complain about having bad community scores in these games, and blame literally everyone else before they can admit any semblance of culpability. Saw it in DOTA 2, saw it in Smite, and every other online forum.
However, we all lose our cool sometimes. I am usually the chillest dude on the server, but if I’ve had 3 games in a row of being flamed, trolled, having teammates quit, and on that fourth game some teammate “woohoo’s” my death? I’m already so steamed from the previous games that I’ll unleash a nasty comment right back, even if the dude accidentally hit the wrong emoticon thing. And if they are legit trolling, and I’m fed up? yeah, that’s definitely a nasty message right back at’em.
I guess I’m trying to say, we all lose our cool on-line once in a while, just like we all lose our cool in real life once in a while. Those once-in-a-while situations don’t define us, as long as most-of-the-time we’re chill. But if you’re edging towards losing your cool most-of-the-time, with your chill moments only once-in-a-while? then yeah, man. you’re the a-hole.
I’m an asshole.
Death threats though? That’s… Another level.
The term code-switching comes to mind, but it’s not a perfect fit. The linguistic term talks about it more as something that people will do when they aren’t able to express an idea in a specific language or dialect. The other time I here it is when talking about racial inequality, and code-switching in that context includes how one dresses, talks, behaves, etc.
In the same fashion that folks can be normal in social settings but shitty online, I’ve often heard that abuse happens in private because abusers only allow themselves to be abusive in private. This sounds very similar to the concept of code switching, though is almost the opposite of what it usually means. I do not know of a term for it.
Long story short, you are the ultimate decider of how you act, and you are yourself in all contexts. Take responsibility for your behavior in all contexts, because it matters in all contexts.
At the same time, though, I am a determinist who views humans as animals running off the same reward systems as any other animal, and thus equally likely to be ‘unconscious’ of their problematic behaviors. The seed of self control, the very idea of autonomy and personal responsibility, needs to be planted in many people. That role initially falls upon the parents, then the teachers as well, and then the individual’s community. If none of that occurs, then it is no longer any small collection’s duty, but the duty of society at large. So punch Nazis - you’re doing them a favor.
Ah, that’s like multilingual speakers. They tend to have different personalities per language spoken.
