If you enter into a binding contract with someone while they are intoxicated to the point of impairment, the contract can be invalidated on those grounds as long as impairment can be proven in a court.
You can’t give reasonable consent while impaired. If it can be further demonstrated that one party intentionally attempted to induce intoxication for the purposes of attaining contractual consent, they can be held criminally liable for that act.
Consent isn’t only about sex. It’s much murkier and dubious in cases of mutual intoxication and interpersonal relations. This poster is simply trying to make people aware of fairly basic laws regarding consent in the United States. And it’s worth knowing.
I am never buying a car sober again! “This one trick car dealers hate”
Trying buying a car with financing while demonstrably drunk and see how far you get. 😆
Men also drink more than women. I’ve seen way more drunk men than women.
This poster implies that women become mindless defenseless fuckdolls after a few drinks while men become sexual predators without any impairments. And that’s just stupid.
It does make it sound like drunk men are responsible for their decisions but drunk women are not responsible.
Curious what the organization’s thoughts would be if a sober woman and a drunk man had sex.
Clearly the drunk man would be guilty or rape because he wasn’t in a state to clearly assertain consent from the sober woman.
That’s fine and well, but the fundamental point of the poster is to help legally protect men. Feeling butthurt about it doesn’t change that fact.
Basic physiology dictates that nonconsensual sex is easier to accomplish with the aggressor possessing a tumescent penis, regardless of the other party’s wishes. And the significant and overwhelming statistics and cases regarding rape committed by men vs women bear on any case like this brought before a judge. 94% of rapists and sexual abusers are men.
The overwhelming amount of rapists are men. Men are raped at significant levels as well. Typically in prison. By other men. If you’d like to find out, be on the wrong end of one of these cases and find yourself in prison.
You’ll find that whether your dick is hard, you can and will be fucked by someone else with a hard dick and the desire to do so.
Perhaps it would be easier for you to think of it this way: if you’re a man, and you’re hanging out with another man, and he’s cool, and you’re bro-ing down, at some point he intimates he’s attracted to you, and you end up too drunk and things are getting blurry, and he wants to help you home, are you more or less worried than if it’s a woman offering you the same help? Why?
You know why. 99.9% of the time, it’s fine. But the other .1% of the time you wake up with a bloody asshole, confusion, fear, and shame. Don’t be obtuse.
And you just created a completely false argument by simply assuming that whatever is happening is rape to begin with.
You assume, that men in this situation can only be an aggressor and nothing else, and whatever they’re doing is automatically rape. And that’s just plain wrong.
You’re robbing both sides of their autonomy in the name of victimization.
Nah.
Can I buy this poster? I want to hang it up so people can laugh at it when they visit.
It’s so fucking stupid.
Based on that eye contact I think I might be Jake’s next victim.
I hate how this also manages to objectify women.
What if we’re both alcoholics that are always drunk?
Download Grindr
Dunno about that, friend. I see far more meth use on Grindr around here than I do alcohol use.
Like, I had to put in my profile “No tweakers. You aren’t hiding it, and I’ll be able to tell.”
no sex for you
I’m not a law talking guy, this isn’t the law, and it isn’t ethical best practice but it might help people understand the reasonableness of the poster.
I believe it’s true that drunk people can’t consent. I think that what juries are likely to actually care about is the question:
Did the accused have the reasonable belief that the plaintiff would consent to sex while sober?
If you’re in a police interview or a trial and are asked:
What made you think the plaintiff consented to your actions?
And all you can say without perjuring yourself is:
I vaguely recall that they seemed kinda into it, and they didn’t say no, oh! and they didn’t fight back.
You’re going to have a bad time. ESPECIALLY if you’ve been drinking, because it will be easier to question the reasonableness of your belief in their consent.
This poster is clearly meant for a place similar to a university dormitory.
This poster is bad because: it makes the law seem lopsided, and perpetuates sexist ideas about gender and sex.
The poster is good because: unfortunately, too many men think that if a girl is drunk at a place where he thinks the girls are looking for drunk hookups, that she consents to whatever she doesn’t fight (and maybe more). Too many men misunderstand consent and have dangerous ideas about what women really want. It’s much better they be scared into over thinking whether they’re risking arrest than that they rape somebody.
Obviously more nuance is good, but if you’re trying to stop drunk 18 year olds from raping/being raped, taping up a poster like this in the stairwell is more effective than taping up an essay.
So does this mean I can get out of a bad used car deal by drinking before signing the contracts?
Let me know.
You can’t fire me for being late to work, I was drunk!
I think the issue with this poster is that it’s SO lopsided that it doesn’t make any sense. They’re outlining a very specific scenario that implies that only males can rape, and that males are more capable of decision making when drunk than females. It’s simultaneously misogynist and misandrist.
A much better take on a college campus night be to illustrate different levels of drunkenness. Alice was sloshed and Bob was tipsy. Or illustrate that the same quantity of alcohol can lead to vastly different levels of intoxication. Alice and Bob both had 3 drinks. Alice is sloshed, bob is tipsy.
As is, if I had seen this poster during any developmental years I’d have written it off as bs propaganda and done what I was gonna do anyway. Fortunately, that’s not-raping in my case, but for some people, it may be a bit blurrier. And, at worst, some people may see this, see how horribly lopsided it is, and decide it MUST be full of shit and do the opposite.
I’ll grant that the poster is lopsided and misogynist. Maybe it’s also misandrist.
I think people are getting confused because they think the poster is saying “this is how you should treat women”. It’s actually more like “You should know that this is how police will treat you”.
And, at worst, some people may see this, see how horribly lopsided it is, and decide it MUST be full of shit and do the opposite.
I wish I had enough confidence in humanity to disagree.
If the poster reframes it as “this is how the police treat you” then I see it being a lot more favorable. If it also took a slightly less hard-line stance, insisting on affirmative consent for instance, it’d also fly better. Overall the message and intent of the poster is clearly a good one, but it’s touching an area where every single person is so vastly different on, that nuance MUST be taken into consideration, or it’s just going to hit wrong.
Yeah affirmative consent is good, but remember that a drunk person can’t actually give affirmative consent.
Again I think that’s too narrow of advice to give. What is suitably drunk to prevent consent from being given? Where is the determining factor, and do you actually expect potentially inebriation, horny adolescents to be able to ascertain it?
Affirmative consent is a LOT harder to unintentionally give. It’s easy to just mumble out an “mhm” to get the situations over with, but it takes thought and consideration to actually say words, "yes, I want you to -specific act-. Advising someone to always seek affirmative consent if they’re unclear is MUCH more actionable.
do you actually expect potentially inebriation, horny adolescents to be able to ascertain it?
No, which is why they shouldn’t have sex with people that are drunk.
That is one of those things that is just going to happen. People WILL engage in boundary pushing behavior. Be it sex while inebriated or something else. These things are normal, and saying broadly, “just don’t do it” doesn’t reduce any harm. More effective harm reduction comes with a degree of understanding and measure, saying at least obey these much more easily achievable guidelines.
How not to rape someone 101:
“can I _____?”
“Would you like to ___?”
That it. That’s all there is too it.
I probably err too much on the side of caution with stuff but when I’m on a date with someone if it’s going well I I always just ask point blank if can kiss them like I’m proposing an update to their insurance policy.
By and large women… Appreciate and hate it. They want you to just know what to do and when without the unsexy as hell approach I take, but they understand why and are glad that you’re doing that over the alternative pushy stuff they tend to run into.
one time it turned what I thought was a surefire yes into a no but I’ll take it over the horrific consequences of not reading the room correctly.
The exception is group sex. If I think some wild shit is going to down I’m doing the naked man. Ik 2 for 2 there.
It’s a good poster, and statistically men are probably in the wrong more often, but it’s core fundamental flaw is that NEITHER party could consent and technically Josie committed rape by the same logic that Jake did.
Yes, but did Josie unreasonably believe that Jake would consent to sex with her while sober?
Police don’t charge Josie because they don’t think a conviction is likely, because they don’t think they’ll be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt the question I suggested juries are likely to be (actually) considering.
Yes, but did Josie unreasonably believe that Jake would consent to sex with her while sober?
What if Jake wouldn’t have consented if sober, because although he thought Josie was a smoking hot sex goddess and would probably consent to some hanky panky next week, he had only broken up with Janie a few days prior and wouldn’t want to hurt her by moving on too soon, does that still make it rapey?
does that still make it rapey?
Was it reasonable for Josie to believe he would consent to sex while sober?
If Jake had explained to Josie that he was really hurting about breaking up with Janie, and didn’t want to do anything that would jeopardize his chances of fixing that relationship, then it would not be reasonable for Josie to believe he would consent to sex while sober and therfore she shouldn’t have had sex with him.
Unfortunately our society’s sexist gender conditioning have ingrained lopsided expectations that people have to navigate.
Is it unfair that it’s more reasonable to believe a drunk man would soberly consent to sex? Yes. But that doesn’t change what’s reasonable for Josie to believe. We don’t know what information was available because it’s a hypothetical, we can imagine all sorts of scenarios.
If you’re not able to assess if a person would soberly consent (because you’re drunk, or because they’re drunk) do not have sex with them.
Your answer is great, but it really addresses whether Josie ought to hook up with Jake, not whether doing so would be rape.
As a young man in my 20s, there were plenty of times I ought not have had that 6th beer, ought not have ate some more cake, ought not have driven quite so fast.
To me, if someone cheats on their partner while drunk, even if they would not have done that while sober, that does not make them a rape victim. It may well make both participants repugnant scum, but the term “rape” is a serious one and I don’t think it really applies in my this specific example.
Yes, but did Josie unreasonably believe that Jake would consent to sex with her while sober?
In 1998 that might be a reasonable concern, but I think nowadays it definitely begs the question. Young men are pickier than they used to be, less prolific in general.
Yeah but isn’t the whole crux of the thing that people aren’t responsible enough to give consent while drunk?
But if you’re not responsible for your actions while drunk, then why is the man responsible for his actions while drunk? Is a drunk man considered responsible enough to determine the sobriety of the people he’s with?
I mean sure don’t have sex with a lady if she’s way too drunk, but that can be difficult to determine. I’ve been in situations where I was out with a woman who was so drunk she could barely walk and yeah, obviously that was a no go (though the next morning it all worked out). But what is the limit on how many drinks a lady can have before she’s no longer able to consent? Is this a scenario where there needs to be a breathalyzer involved?
And yeah, I’ve woken up with women I wouldn’t have been with had I been sober. Was I raped? Nah, I was just being a drunken idiot.
Yeah but isn’t the whole crux of the thing that people aren’t responsible enough to give consent while drunk?
Not exactly how I’d frame it but go on…
But if you’re not responsible for your actions while drunk
Wait what, who who said that? That’s not a conclusion based on your premise. All we said is that intoxicated people can’t consent.
I mean sure don’t have sex with a lady if she’s way too drunk, but that can be difficult to determine.
Would it be reasonable to believe they would consent to sex with you while sober?
And yeah, I’ve woken up with women I wouldn’t have been with had I been sober. Was I raped?
Was it reasonable for them to think that you would have consented to sex with you while you were sober?
Wait what, who who said that? That’s not a conclusion based on your premise. All we said is that intoxicated people can’t consent.
The poster did. If your actions as a prosecutor are to punish one party who is at the same level of drunkenness as the other, who you’re letting go, for the same actions (sex with a drunk person), then yeah, you’re saying at least sometimes, you’re not responsible for your actions while drunk.
Being drunk leads to poor reasoning and poor decision making whether you’re male or female. Either apply the same standard or don’t. If she wants to pursue action against him, or the state does, then they both face the same penalty, considering the same crime.
You also seem to default to making judgements about what another person’s theoretical state of mind would be if they weren’t drunk in this situation. That might work for prosecution, but it’s a shit heuristic for actually preventing anything. I don’t know most people’s states of mind when we’re both sober, and now you’re expecting a drunk person to figure out another drunk person’s sober mindset?
People are responsible for their actions, and the foreseeable consequences of their actions.
If it was not reasonable for her to believe he would consent to sex while sober, she should not have had sex with him.
It’s my hypothesis that prosecutors will only bring charges if they think they can convince a jury that a person was not reasonable to believe the other party would consent to sex while sober.
That might work for prosecution, but it’s a shit heuristic for actually preventing anything
Yeah which is why posters like this are good. Don’t have sex with drunk strangers. Don’t have sex with drunk platonic friends. Don’t have new types of sex with existing serial sexual partners unless it’s reasonable for you to believe they would consent while sober.
I don’t know most people’s states of mind when we’re both sober, and now you’re expecting a drunk person to figure out another drunk person’s sober mindset?
No I’m asking them not to try. If your judgement is impaired by alcohol, don’t try to assess if someone has consented to sex with you.
In the event of a court trial? That likely would come into play. The argument that the defendant was also too inebriated to make an informed decision. I don’t know what the legal equivalent of “mulligan?” is but… yeah
But… how do you prove that you were drunk enough? Were their witnesses? Why the fuck would there be witnesses in your bedroom while you are hooking up? It very much becomes “he said, she said” with the path being character assassination. And if that comes across as “massively fucked up and unfair” then… I strongly suggest researching how the average rape trial goes.
As for “how drunk is drunk enough?” That is very much a question. And is why it is good to have “the talk” with a potential partner. If they are at all slurring their voice or seem “drunk” then you take a raincheck. And if this is some rando who drank half a bottle of whiskey but still seems good to drive? Maybe be a bit more selective on who you stick it in?
And yeah, I’ve woken up with women I wouldn’t have been with had I been sober. Was I raped? Nah, I was just being a drunken idiot.
Honestly? You know you. But understand that we have decades (probably closer to a century or two?) of indoctrination to make people blame themselves for “being taken advantage of”. How many sitcoms have “the walk of shame” where one of the main characters drank too much, “slept with” someone they didn’t want to, and is now shamed as a slut or a fool because they woke up the morning after with them in their bed? And how often is the abhorrent admirer portrayed Urkel-style with “I’m gonna wear you down”? And that applies to men, women, and everyone in between.
Because yes, it is very much a question. And… because of the legal system and society, it is almost never in a victim’s interests to actually press charges. But people need to learn: “I drank too much at a party and someone I didn’t want to have sex with convinced me to have sex” is not “I was stupid”. It is “I was coerced into sex”. And whether an individual considers that rape is very much a personal thing. Legally? it is. But I am not going to blame anyone for wanting to avoid that word for the purposes of their own sanity.
It’s just a messy situation no two ways around it. Lots of judgment calls when people are too intoxicated to have good judgement.
Generally as a society we do consider people somewhat responsible for their actions when they’re drunk. Like you can’t say “I was too drunk to know that I shouldn’t drive home.” If I’m too drunk to be able to say no to someone, that’s my responsibility. Other people are drinking too, and it’s not their responsibility to make absolutely certain that when I’m saying “yes” to someone I might not normally go with.
Sure there can be ugly situations where someone is coercing someone, but there can also be innocent situations where someone is just flirting and things go a little further than normal because alcohol is involved. And there’s everything in between.
And the shame of being considered a slut comes into it. I don’t really feel all that ashamed of waking up with someone I wouldn’t have normally been with if I was sober. We had sex, nothing to be ashamed of there. I had sex with someone I wouldn’t have normally been with. If there’s no shame in it, why would I be angry with that person?
Statistics get murky due to (suspected?) under reporting by victims who identify as male because society still makes people feel “weak” or “like it is their fault” if they are raped. I am not entirely convinced as to how much that evens things out (mostly because victims who identify as female ALSO drastically under report due to an understanding that the legal system will just call them a slut and move on…), but it is a good thing to keep in mind and victims who identify as male SHOULD seek help.
In a perfect world? I would want an extra line about “but Josie was too drunk to say no” and maybe do a gender flipped one too. But there are reasons I don’t write short and concise flyers.
But the issue with explaining that neither party can consent is… what we see in this thread. Lots of people who insist that because neither side could consent then it isn’t rape and nobody is in the wrong. Because that CAN be true. But the reality is that “Well, we both had a few shots of whiskey and both wanted it at the same time” that ignores differences in body weight and tolerance to alcohol and whatever meds a person might be on and so forth. Which mostly gets back to the age old “Get her drunk and fuck her” mentality that involves “hey, let’s both do shots” and so forth.
Its one of those cases where less nuance is actually PROBABLY better. Because you either understand the law at play and don’t feel the need to go into a great discussion and debate of it… or you are the kind of monster who is carrying around a printout of the law so you know what you can get away with.
Idk man, I’d rather just have a poster that says:
REGARDLESS OF AGE, WEIGHT, OR GENDER
A PERSON CANNOT CONSENT WHILE INTOXICATED
YOU WILL BE CHARGED WITH RAPE,
YOU WILL BE BARRED FROM HIGHER EDUCATION,
YOU MAY SERVE PRISON TIME,
AND YOU MIGHT EVEN BE FORCED TO LIVE IN A
SEPERATE NEIGHBORHOOD AMONGST
OTHER SEX OFFENDERS FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.
In big bold red letters on a white background. If the people seeing it don’t understand after that, then they’re a lost cause.
Nah. 18 year old me would read this and think… everyone I know is getting drunk and having sex all the time, but I don’t know anyone that’s been charged with rape and never heard of people forced to live on whatever rapist neighbourhood.
If the people seeing it don’t understand after that, then they’re a lost cause.
Sorry that’s just not how communication works.
If you’re trying to tell someone something, making dramatic claims just undermines your credibility.
The logic you’re using could be used to defend any number of stupid illegal activities, it’s got a real hardcore SovCit vibe.
These nuances are why this poster is absolute shit, though. Sex, rape, and consent are such incredibly deep, complicated topics that you really can’t boil them down to a poster and have it touch on a fraction of what it needs to.
Right now, this poster very much makes it out to always be the guy’s fault. That’s an issue, even if it’s not the case. I can see this poster having an inverse effect. The people who need to understand it have a knee jerk counter reaction, and the people who have enough understanding to deduce the nuance already aren’t raping people.
The poster is at best worthless, a tree gives its life for that, or it’s actively harmful.
Let me slide in here and say absolutely not to one key point here. If you are in a law office or a trial and you are asked anything, especially regarding something as serious as a rape accusation, you say absolutely nothing, you shut the fuck up and let your attorney do the talking.
Good to see more people linking to this. Hey, if you’re an American reading this comment and that link is still blue, turn it purple. lt’s arguably the most important video on the internet for every American to watch.
Yeah fair, I mean I think I implied you shouldn’t say the quote.
Don’t talk to police.
Unless you’re a rapist, in which case please tell them all about how she has to be held responsible for her decision to get blackout drunk and seduce you. And how she definitely wanted it because she didn’t say no. It will really help you get them on your side. The police are all good ol’ boys, they’ll totally get it. “Women ☕️”, “boys will be boys”.
There are times I absoultely would not have sex with someone sober.
That’s pretty much the reason I drink, to be more fun, to let loose and be less socially awkward.
I bet the majority of women I slept with I wouldn’t have done it sober. Hell some of then I had sex with twice haha. I really don’t understand this argument.
There’s been several women in my past that I only slept with because they spent the night pouring drinks in me because I was too shy/socially awkward to make a move. By the logic of this poster (if it was consistent between genders) they raped me, and I don’t feel that way at all. There’s such a huge gray area around the whole “sex while drunk” thing that makes it really hard to resolve sometimes. Obviously someone getting someone who’s previously said “No” drunk in order take advantage of them is wrong but that’s hardly the only scenario.
My mother was a sexual assault response coordinator (SARC) for the military in the early aughts. This led to some really weird situations for us as a family, like having to pretend we didn’t know why this strange woman who wasn’t here when we went to bed last night is now having breakfast with us. The worst one was probably when it was a friend of mine having breakfast with us. Anyway, my mother really impressed on me that it did not matter if the woman initiated, if I was drunk as well, that I should not, under any circumstances, engage in drunken hookups. I disagree that when two drunk (hetero) people have sex, the man is automatically a rapist. But at the end of the day, my opinion doesn’t matter. The law does. Keep this in mind, fellas, get her number instead. The risk ain’t worth it.
Perception is reality
What does that mean in this context?
This is the best advice in this whole thread:
I should not, under any circumstances, engage in drunken hookups. I disagree that when two drunk (hetero) people have sex, the man is automatically a rapist. But at the end of the day, my opinion doesn’t matter. The law does. Keep this in mind, fellas, get her number instead. The risk ain’t worth it.
Like the debate about consent while intoxicated is a complex one, but none of it really matters because drunken hookups are a huge risk regardless. Even if there’s no “rape” there’s an enormous potential for regret.
it did not matter if the woman initiated…
At risk of sounding stereotypically queer, the whole gender norms and roles thing between straight people just sounds so insanely outdated each year that passes. Yes, 1 in 4 women are SA at the college I attended. But there was also the statistic that 1 in 10 men are also SA. That’s a hell of a lot of people in a class of 30, for both statistics. And that was info distributed in 2023.
I’ve heard of friends of friends (men) getting held down and raped by other people in a hotel hallway and being too afraid to get tested, call the police, or even come forward because they are so fearful of being accused of being gay and then being ostracized by society. Being victims of SA is an equal opportunity event. It feels so odd that in the straight world, things still seem so…one dimensional. It can (and does) happen to anyone. It feels like everyone is just holding their breath while crazy, horrible stuff happens.
I’m largely straight (hetero flexible tends to be what I’d say if you asked) and I agree that the straights are not ok 😂
Why does this only apply to women though?
You and your silly questions
Have you ever heard of a man raped by a woman? I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but people don’t talk about it.
In the UK it’s legally impossible for a man to be raped by a women. to rape requires a penis. at least it was last i checked.
And SA in general against men is woefully underreported.
not to say the same isn’t true for women too… before i’m downvoted to obilvion
That’s wild! I set why you need a penis to own property or to vote or lead a company, but to rape??
And I don’t care if people mistake my joke about the patriarchy for a patriarchal joke. I don’t care about downvotes
but people don’t talk about it.
Now why on earth would that be?
Google patriarchy and toxic masculinity for more information
Jake is the drunk driver and Josie is the drunk passenger. They get into a car crash. Now who do you assign the blame to?
The poster is funny, but apart of the outrage that is causes by some, I think that it could trigger a good discussion.
For instance about how toxic masculinity also hurts men. Under that men are considered weak if they cry and should consider themselves be ‘lucky’ when they are raped.
And how feminism can help against this as well.
This is why consent agreements will become the norm for hooking up. They already exist.
Honestly I’m for it all. Killing all mood means less humans. anymous and hostility between the sexes means less humans, and the less humans the better for the Earth and all other life on it.
Man, that is one of the most depressing views of life I’ve ever seen. Most people go for either “hedonism is fine because life is hard and people suck” or “life is so great on its own that you should restrict the amount of pleasure seeking behavior you engage in”.
You’ve managed to take the shitty parts of both of those philosophies and combine them into a stew of cynicism and self loathing. That’s honestly pretty impressive from a psychological perspective.
My life has taught me from a very young age that if I expect the worst from my species based on experience, I’ll be correct 99 times out of a hundred and spare myself a lot of shock and disappointment. World history only reinforces this.
I made a deal with myself a long time ago, my core value is the pursuit of truth over blissful ignorance. And the truth is, we have very few positive traits, at least ones that our various societies bother to nurture in anything but empty rhetoric. Given that reality, I choose not to delude myself into rooting for the home team just because it’s the home team. Humanity is welcome to surprise and humble me in all of this, but it’s going the opposite direction.
Go touch grass
You’re not wrong in a lot of respects but the only thing you’re accomplishing by holding on to that attitude so tightly is making yourself bitter about the world. If you want to live that way that’s your choice to make but I don’t see the point.
Fair, but I don’t see people accomplishing much of anything other than enabling or rationalizing further rewarding the world’s most successful sociopaths at Earth’s ecosystem’s and the vast majority of other human’s expense, regardless of how they see the water in the glass.
All I would be doing by pretending otherwise is maybe be personally happier until the next daily reminder of who we are and what we stand for. To me, there are no good options, but I’d rather stare down the horror in judgment than embody just another all too common symptom that those most responsible, who benefit most from humanity’s greed and gluttony disease, encourage all their victims to indulge in: willful ignorance.
It’s hard to imagine how, in your pursuit of truth and knowledge, you’ve managed to ignore all the beautiful and unfathomable advancements humans have made in biology, mathematics, philosophy, music, art, literature, and any other topic you could possibly imagine. Instead, you’ve focused on the negative to excuse and reinforce your antisocial biases.
Because of those advances, we know that negative experiences are promoted for memory retention and recall. Overcoming that neurobiological bias can be very challenging to some people, whether because of significance of experience, timing, or having neurodivergent brains that need a bit of help.
I mean… having a discussion about what you are going to do, what your boundaries are, and what turns you on is a really mature and, honestly, sexy thing to do.
I’ve had a few hook ups over the years where we have definitely popped out our phones (generally after confirming we have a couple condoms and before we start getting undressed) to record the quick clip of “I, so and so, consent to having sex with this person”. Hell, an ex and I realized that the first picture we had together as a couple was her yelling “<BLANK> is gonna fuck my brains out tonight” and me saying “I’m gonna stick my pee-pee into <BLANK>'s vagina” into our phones while laughing.
But also? Once you get out of the novelty of “I’m having sex!” being the be all end all? The first time with a new partner REALLY sucks. Neither of you know what the other is into and you are figuring out the geometry of your bodies and what positions will be comfortable. Having that conversation about liking to have your hair pulled or your nipples being too sensitive or whatever not only ensures that neither party feels “dirty” afterward but also gives you a cheat sheet to make it feel good for all parties.
Can’t hold someone to a contract they signed drunk.
Waste of paper and ink.
A lot of discussion in this thread, but this depends on many things. I already blacked out from drinking and would hate if somebody did something to me. But there are other levels of drunkenness, and you can also read the other person’s mood, their movement, their agreement towards getting physical, and judge who is the more sober of the two, and try to communicate these things.
Basically Michael Cera in Superbad.
So according to this, every time a lady and I hook up after a few drinks it’s rape? The fuck?
Get outta here you rapist!
I’ll grape you in the mouth
C’mere kids! I’m gonna tie you to the radiator and grape you in the mouth!
I’ll grape your parents
I feel like we need some kind of gradient between “rape” and what you’re describing. Some kind of protection in place for inebriated people who later, sober, regret the decision, but doesn’t immediately result in such a heavy charge.
The truth is that both sides happen. Drunk people sometimes can consent, drunkenness is a broad spectrum. And drunk people also sometimes cannot consent. Right now the more morally correct stance, in my opinion, is to go full tilt into the “drunk people can’t consent” camp and charge both parties, but there almost has to be an intermediate we could apply, no?
To be clear, I’m not a lawyer. I don’t exactly know how these cases tend to be tried. I’m basing that on a bit of a layman’s understanding.
There definitely is, it’s called not being a shitty person. If the lady you’re with is clearly hammered, or you know they’ve had more than their normal amount, you don’t try anything. Anyone with a speck of decency or morality will know the difference.
So wait, let me get this straight. Are you saying that it’s the same thing to hold down and force someone, or coerce them with threats etc, as it is to get them drunk (not maliciously, just over the course of a natural evening together)and end up sleeping together? I don’t think you necessarily are, but I just want to make sure.
Assuming we’re on the same page there, then what I’m saying is that these two cases need a -legal- difference, since they’re clearly morally different. Both can end up being damaging to the other party, but one is clearly violating someone’s rights, and the other has a lot of nuance around it.
Only if you’re male.
It is if you guessed wrong. The short answer is, don’t have sex with somebody unless you’re absolutely sure they would want to sober. At the end of the day you’re responsible for your own judgement and if you guess wrong, it doesn’t matter that you intended for there to be consent, you’re still responsible.
I’m impressed you were able to type out so many words without actually saying jack shit.
Technically yes I guess… hmm. I wonder if there was a lady rapist who went around and raped drunk men could she get them sent to jail too?
I mean, many cases where girls straight up lied and ruined a man’s entire life, got them sent to prison, and only YEARS later they admitted to their lies, so really as far as the law is concerned they just want a quick trial (because asking them to do their fucking job is a lot apparently)
Only if you’re a misogynist.
“Hon, I had too much to drenk but I’m horny. Can you strahp me in?”
WTF ? Is this real ? Poor kid
It’s a joke in the same vein as Obviousplant. bonus
Jake deserves prison for drinking cocktails
