To be clear, I am only talking about people like the average working class Trump voter. The ones who just got caught by misinformation, and just haven’t been able to find a way out. Trump and all his mates are terrible people, and should be held accountable.
The average voter is another thing. My attitude is that I got lucky, and found out that Trump and his mates are terrible, instead of getting sucked down a rabbit hole of supporting them. Knowing how fascism works, I don’t know if I’d be able to reliably land on the right side if fascism happened in my home country. And if I don’t believe I could reliably spot fascism, I’m not comfortable acting like those who support Trump could have.
This isn’t a discussion of “just be a good person”. I know plenty of amazing, caring people who believe they’re doing the right thing.
This whole idea of “I can’t say is reliably avoid fascism” is based on this, the school that became fascist for a week. As bad of an experiment that was from that teacher, it was an effective way of teaching how people fall for what should be obviously a bad thing.
Democrat voters were knowingly voting for literal genocide. This has to be the worlds worst virtue signal.
Oh fucking stop! Trump has ALWAYS been one of Israel’s biggest supporters he’s given Bibi free reign to do whatever the fuck he wants. Stop with the whataboutism already. You people have literally just elected the nazi Party. Admit to your mistake and fucking fix it.
Stop virtue signalling like you have a moral high ground to stand on. Democrats are also the Nazi party. You only like Democrats because you were not the person being slaughtered in their concentration camp and you do not care about anyone but yourself.
I’m not even American! Im just watching the world fall apart because you fucking bible monkeys are too fucking stupid to see the writing on the wall. You just keep banging on the keyboard: WHAT ABOUT GAZA? WHAT ABOUT GAZA?
WHAT ABOUT GAZA?
And in doing so have elected litteral fucking fascists who do not plan on having elections in 4 years. And I genuinely would not give a shit what happens to your armpit of a country if it weren’t for the fact that the USA has put itself in such a position that many countries rely on you to keep your shit together and not elect someone who threatens to… Oh I don’t know… INVADE PART OF THE EUROPEAN UNION!
Get your head out of your arse and stop pretending that both candidates are just as bad as each other. Sure by western European standards the Dems were pretty far right, but not like trump. Not like the heritage Foundation. Not like musk!
You’re a white supremacist, you don’t blink at the USA killing hundreds of thousands of non-whites so long as it upholds White hegemony.
So you only care about things when they impact you. That is your argument.
Don’t get me wrong, I feel for the civilians in Gaza, but that’s a drop in the ocean compared to what’s coming. Also the ceasefire is specifically in Gaza. Israel is taking this opportunity to soften up the west bank.
Another reminder that Westerns don’t consider us to be human. Fuck you, I hope someone drops you in an ocean you ghoul.
Between trying to stop a genocide and losing some rights i would pick stopping a genocide. Us citizens had decades to make a valid non imperialist third party before Trump appeared but no they decided to vote to the same two terrible parties complains and think that some protests is going to make politicians act for the good of everybody
Who the fucking care about a random country in middle east when there are bigger things at stakes? get a grip, fuck gaza, israel and all in-between. Nobody gives a shit.
If the US was occupied you would want the whole word to support you. Do you feel the same about Russia and Ukraine?
I do care about that for its geopolitical implications, just as I care about the US downturn to fascism. The west has fucked it up enough in the ME, now it’s up on them to sort their future
this one said the quiet part out loud
I don’t understand your argument. Are you American? What did you vote for and why? If you are not American what do you gain? Are you active outside of Lemmy? What organizations would you suggest to support?
What is constructive on your style of discourse?
The argument is Democrats are cherry picking the sole bad thing their guy did not do. Then they frame the conversation as if that thing is the only thing that matters
removed, he’s already objectively done more than the Democrats did to reign in Israel, you just don’t realize it because you’re a BlueMAGA fanatic that spent the last year doing everything you could to deny and downplay the genocide that Biden was overseeing.
Jesus Christ, I’m not even American. I couldn’t give less of a shit if it weren’t for the fact that you unhinged motherfuckers are in charge of the largest military in the world and are supposed to hold the russians back. Just remove your head from your colon and fix your mistake.
You should have told us from the beginning. You value ukranian lives more than palestinian lives. All life should be valued
Not being American make it even worse that you’re a blueMAGA cultist, dumb ass.
Perhaps you should take your brain out of the box and put it back in your head. Again
I
Don’t
Give
A
Fuck
About
The
Democrats
I just have a problem with fascist dictatorships that threaten to annex their neighbours. But you know I guess my anti fascist stance makes me “blueMAGA”. Go to school and learn about how Hitler rose to power in Germany, you fucking child!
You clearly do give a fuck about the Democrats, given this whole conversation was started by you defending their genocide. and no, supporting genocidal right wingers doesn’t’ make you “anti-fascist.”
How is it not possible for you (all of you who parrot this) to see that Trump tossed you a brief reprieve so you can make EXACTLY this argument? Are you only capable of looking two weeks into the future or something?
As I say every time: Biden was awful for Gaza. Trump is also awful for Gaza, and then he’ll take down as much of the rest of the world and the US with it as he can.
You are literally and transparently doing exactly what Trump wants you to be doing right now, because it legitimizes him.
Israel Invades Jenin Days After Signing Gaza “Ceasefire”
No, I’m not capable of looking two weeks into the future, and neither are you. Currently, the fact is that he secured a ceasefire, proving that Biden was not trying to for the previous year. The rest is just BlueMaga fantasizing about more genocide, because you care more about being right than you do about thousands of dead foreigners.
I’ve had to listen to a year of you shitlibs bleating endlessly about how important it was to vote blue because they’re the lesser evil, now that it turns out Trump was actually the lesser evil, suddenly you’re abandoning that.
No, he’s not going to “take down the rest of the world”, at least not anymore than the average US president. As for taking down the US: Good! it’s an evil empire that spreads death across the globe and we would be better off without it.
You people genuinely don’t believe foreigners are human, do you? That’s why you care less about saving thousands of lives than you do about whether Trump looks good or not. I don’t care about the parasocial kayfabe, I care that there’s a ceasefire.
You’ll find plenty of comments where I acknowledge that Biden and Harris were bad on this issue, so please, don’t put words into my mouth. My position has been the same. Biden/Harris bad on this issue, Trump worse.
Maybe in a few months or years you’ll have a better grasp of cause and effect. Those lives aren’t pawns to me, they are pawns to Trump. You’ve seen his opener so far.
I’m capable of knowing how Trump operates though through past experience. And so are you, but you have taken the cake he gave you so you have stopped looking.
I already showed you how meaningless his action was - Israel is just killing the same folks but in a different area now. And I guarantee you it’s only the beginning.
You’re wrong, but it’s a great way to avoid processing any of my words if you insist that’s the case.
Objectively incorrect
His opener of securing a ceasefire, something that has upset you so much you’re know constantly fantasizing about how hes totally going to do an even bigger genocide in the future, and getting big bad when people remind you that you can’t actually see the future.
My god, you really have become so deranged you actually believe you have the ability to see the future. And no, Isreal is not killing nearly as many people, so it’s not meaningless, or it wouldn’t be if you actually cared about the lives of foreigners, but you don’t.
Processing your words is how I determined that you don’t consider us human
Well, goodbye now, and good luck. You can reply if you like, but I won’t see it.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre
[citation needed]
so far
Lol. Blue MAGA everyone. Biden spending fifteen months perpetrating a mass genocide isn’t as bad as Trump securing a ceasefire. Another reminder that you don’t consider us human.
Oh right, I forgot you suffer under the delusion of having oracle like powers.
I want you to explain for me how voting for Trump is - somehow, according to you - not voting for literal genocide.
In point of fact: Trump just removed the (admittedly woefully insufficient) weapon restrictions that were previously being applied to Israel
So far, Trump has already done more to reign in the carnage in Gaza than the Democrats did, BlueMaga types like you only don’t realize that because you were aggressively denying the extent of the genocide under Biden.
His cabinet is full of zionists. There is not a big difference between Biden, trump and Harris. Both parties will always try to outcompete each other in supporting Israel
Elise Stefanik, Donald Trump’s nominee for U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, stated during her January 2025 Senate confirmation hearing that Israel has a “biblical right” to the occupied West Bank.
Steve Witkoff, Donald Trump’s Middle East envoy, suggested relocating some Palestinians from Gaza to Indonesia aka ethenically cleasing them
Trump also cancelled the performative action of genocide joe of halding 2000 ton of bomb to the idf
I’m not saying Trump doesn’t support Israel and the genocidal Zionist agenda in general, but I also don’t believe he’s as personally passionate about it as the people like Blinken and Biden are. Like, he will continue supporting Israel in the way that the USA always does, but he was willing to tell them to knock it off when the sheer horrific brutality of what they were doing was becoming a millstone around the neck of the USA agenda, which the last year of genocide absolutely was. I’m saying he’s as bad as someone like Reagan on Palestine, which is still bad, but the Biden administration was the worst of the worst.
Lmao what the actual fuck? Are you being serious? Did you not see the article I posted, or even try to corroborate/disprove it yourself, and then realize that it is a thing, and it’s easy to corroborate?
How deep in the BlueAnon well are you that you think lifting the entirely symbolic ban is more important than securing a fucking ceasefire! Jesus Christ, you people genuinely don’t see us as human, you care more about scoring points against Trump, and you’d rather we all die if it proves you right.
Your refusal to believe or understand facts and context around the negotiation is deeply telling. Just so you understand why we are all continuing to downvote you.
Also:
You were the one describing actual facts as “utter nonsense”
And I understand why you continue to downvote: because you’re so fucking upset that Trump won the election and didn’t continue the genocide that you’ve decided to embrace fantasy and are lashing out at anyone who reminds you of reality.
I’m not in this interaction to litigate reality with you. I’m here to see how long it’ll take for you to stop trying to troll everyone who actually understands the full context of the situation.
Correct, it’s clear that you’ve already abandoned reality.
Like what? Last thing I read he continued shipping heavy weapons that were previously banned from being shipped to Israel and some clown in his cabinet stated that Israël has some sort of holy right to the land. I’m not American and I don’t approve of the democrats way handling it, but the republicans so far seem worse.
This just shows me that republican are more vocal about israel support. The biggest military aid happened during Obama and biden bypassed two time the congress to help the genocide. He also gave more defensive system to Israel so it feel safe to continue the war
He literally secured a ceasefire; you really need to re-examine what news sources you’re consuming if you only heard that he repealed Biden’s entirely symbolic ban on one type of bomb, but somehow managed to miss the ceasefire.
The ceasefire happened before Trump took office
It was secured by Trump envoy.
What did he do?
Secured a ceasefire
That was under Biden. Try again?
If you did any research, rather than just trying to confirm your own fantasy, you’d know that it was done by Trumps envoy, so drop the smug reddit shithead act and actually look at the facts.
Ok so he didn’t do anything in the reality that we live in lol thanks for confirming xD
Jesus, this election really has broken BlueMAGAs brains now; you’re being given uncontraversial facts and just saying “Nuh UH!” followed by the usual reddit shitlord cliches.
Cease fire was negotiated and secured by the Biden administration. Try again.
Edit: or am I misunderstanding what you’re saying?
You aren’t. It’s a .ml account so they are probably just trolling.
Fair dues. I started at .ml, and I’m not a rabid tankie troll, so I usually like to give the benefit of the doubt…up to a certain point, of course
Yeah, how dear a .ml account post on .ml, you dipshit troll.
No, it was not, it was negotiated by Trump’s envoy. Maybe you should do the smallest amount of research before trying to act like a smug redditer and give away your ignorance
Maybe do the smallest amount of research and realize that:
Do you genuinely believe the bullshit you’re spouting? I don’t mean to be meaninglessly hostile to you - I’m asking how you can possibly believe that line when it’s trivial to disprove.
I don’t care about the persnickety procedural bullshit that you blueanon fucks think is more important than thousands of human lives. “Oh No, it’s actually bad that the genocide stopped, because that violates the Hatch Act!” You Fucking Ghoul.
Biden actively supported the human catastrophe Israel created but because you spent the last year being a genocide denying DNC cultist, you’ve blotted that fact out.
Righto 👍
I realize that BlueAnon extremists like you would rather reject incontrovertible facts than admit you were wrong, but they are still incontrovertible facts.
Besides the irrelevant symbolic posturing from Biden being undone, nothing Trump does or will do absolves Biden.
Lets say Trump raped 70 people and Democrats raped 60 people. One cannot say “I would never vote for a rapist”, and then endorse Democrats. Replace the word rape with genocide and multiply the numbers by a thousand.
Voting for trump would’ve been the same. You really think he cares about ending the war in gaza? Like out of the two who do you think would’ve been easier to convince? In my eyes that was definitely Kamala
Well you should get your eyes checked. Kamala also doesn’t care about ending the genocide (not war) in Gaza.
And trump is different how?
He already secured a ceasefire.
Do the Palestinians get reparations or do Israel get away with what they’ve done? If they are getting away with it, Israel are just going to continue it again down the line.
Good, you people are so desperate for more dead Palestinians.