Leave won by a margin of 3.78%. There was also very little talk of leaving the single market. In fact much of the talk that there was of that came from the Remain campaign and was shouted down as project fear.
Everyone knew that brexit means leaving the single market. The entire point of Brexit was to ‘take back control’. People voted for this Brexit in 2019. They made their bed, now they can lie in it.
No. 48.11% of us knew that. 51.89% were sold a lie.
Well, actually, probably a few of that 51% knew that. But a lot of thought (because much of the leave campaign literally said so) that we could leave and have some kind of EEA agreement.
Yeah, British people got played dirty. A lead of 3,78% is not a real mandate for such a strong move. There was so much propaganda out there - anyone remember the NHS bus? Does anyone remember how much Russian influence campaigns were going on even then? And how extreme the British media was?
Many residents of the UK were not allowed to vote, all EU citizens for example or younger people, and they are also massively affected. And now, 8 years on, many of the older voters have also died. So “well, you voted for this, get fucked by your own greedy elites” is not the best argument to solve this mess
While I generally agree with you, it is not up to us EUropeans to sort out this mess but up to the Brits.
They made a decision and if they do not like the results of said decision, they should have it again.
What propaganda targeted was British exceptionalism and that exceptionalism is ultimately what drove the Brexit movement. Do you think that has disappeared from Britain with the older voters? I wouldn’t say so. Whenever there are online discussions about UK rejoining the EU there are brits who don’t want to join as a “regular” member. They want to rejoin with some of the benefits they had before Brexit, they want special treatment. To me that says that British exceptionalism is still very much alive and kicking.
There is a simple way to solve the mess, it’s rejoining the EU. But Britain doesn’t want that so I think the “well, you voted for this, get fucked by your own greedy elites” (to put it in your words) still applies.
I think he’s saying the opposite, that the remain camp viciously tried to get people to pay attention to the point that the single market would be left too, and that these concerns where dismissed by camp brexit framing the concerns as fearmongering by the remain people.
The referendum was non binding. There were two general election, where people could have voted for parties opposing Brexit.
In 2017 they voted Theresa May to do Brexit. When she was failling to achieve the absurd idea of Brexit, that was propagandarized in 2016, People voted Boris Johnson in 2019 to “get Brexit done”. Also Johnson won “in a landslide” gaining an 80 seat majority in a 650 seats parliament. That was a 62% majority, almost the two thirds often needed in democracies for things such as constitutional ammends.
People had three elections were Brexit was the main issue and they could have voiced a change of mind, or which conditions were necessary to still be on the side of Brexit. They had access to plenty of information, they had seen that the idea of Brexit they had in 2016 was in fact impossible, and how a real Brexit will look like. And still they voted Brexit again and again.
I am sorry for everyone that got fucked by Brexit, but the British as a sovereign people have made it abundantly clear, that the majority wanted Brexit, or was fine with Brexit. The first step to moving on from this, is to take the full responsibility, that they have. There is a very clear indication that rejoining the EU would be the best for the UK. But this only becomes viable, if the British people work through and accept their past.
It was their choice to leave the EU. Now stop complaining.
Leave won by a margin of 3.78%. There was also very little talk of leaving the single market. In fact much of the talk that there was of that came from the Remain campaign and was shouted down as project fear.
Everyone knew that brexit means leaving the single market. The entire point of Brexit was to ‘take back control’. People voted for this Brexit in 2019. They made their bed, now they can lie in it.
Brexit means Brexit, not breakfast in Paris.
No. 48.11% of us knew that. 51.89% were sold a lie.
Well, actually, probably a few of that 51% knew that. But a lot of thought (because much of the leave campaign literally said so) that we could leave and have some kind of EEA agreement.
I’m pretty sure everyone outside of the UK knew that.
Probably. But they weren’t actively being lied to.
Yeah, British people got played dirty. A lead of 3,78% is not a real mandate for such a strong move. There was so much propaganda out there - anyone remember the NHS bus? Does anyone remember how much Russian influence campaigns were going on even then? And how extreme the British media was?
Many residents of the UK were not allowed to vote, all EU citizens for example or younger people, and they are also massively affected. And now, 8 years on, many of the older voters have also died. So “well, you voted for this, get fucked by your own greedy elites” is not the best argument to solve this mess
While I generally agree with you, it is not up to us EUropeans to sort out this mess but up to the Brits. They made a decision and if they do not like the results of said decision, they should have it again.
What propaganda targeted was British exceptionalism and that exceptionalism is ultimately what drove the Brexit movement. Do you think that has disappeared from Britain with the older voters? I wouldn’t say so. Whenever there are online discussions about UK rejoining the EU there are brits who don’t want to join as a “regular” member. They want to rejoin with some of the benefits they had before Brexit, they want special treatment. To me that says that British exceptionalism is still very much alive and kicking.
There is a simple way to solve the mess, it’s rejoining the EU. But Britain doesn’t want that so I think the “well, you voted for this, get fucked by your own greedy elites” (to put it in your words) still applies.
are you saying, that remainers are to blame for brexit?
I think he’s saying the opposite, that the remain camp viciously tried to get people to pay attention to the point that the single market would be left too, and that these concerns where dismissed by camp brexit framing the concerns as fearmongering by the remain people.
I don’t know how you got that from what I said.
A lot of what has happened in Brexit was what remain said would happen but were told during the campaign that what they were saying was “project fear”
thanks.
Yes I misread.
The referendum was non binding. There were two general election, where people could have voted for parties opposing Brexit.
In 2017 they voted Theresa May to do Brexit. When she was failling to achieve the absurd idea of Brexit, that was propagandarized in 2016, People voted Boris Johnson in 2019 to “get Brexit done”. Also Johnson won “in a landslide” gaining an 80 seat majority in a 650 seats parliament. That was a 62% majority, almost the two thirds often needed in democracies for things such as constitutional ammends.
People had three elections were Brexit was the main issue and they could have voiced a change of mind, or which conditions were necessary to still be on the side of Brexit. They had access to plenty of information, they had seen that the idea of Brexit they had in 2016 was in fact impossible, and how a real Brexit will look like. And still they voted Brexit again and again.
I am sorry for everyone that got fucked by Brexit, but the British as a sovereign people have made it abundantly clear, that the majority wanted Brexit, or was fine with Brexit. The first step to moving on from this, is to take the full responsibility, that they have. There is a very clear indication that rejoining the EU would be the best for the UK. But this only becomes viable, if the British people work through and accept their past.
Problem with that is FPTP. The UK like the USA is pretty much a two part system. Both of the main parties stuck with the will of the people narrative.
Only just, and against Jeremy fucking Corbyn.
At that point I think people just wanted it over with. Even remainers as the political paralysis was in and if itself starting to cause problems.