- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
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You wanna believe I downloaded it as soon as this was announced. Been playing some Metroid Dread on a 32 inch monitor with a controller that doesn’t cramp up my hands the past couple of days. Thanks for giving me the push I needed Nintendo! I might have just been happy with my Steam library instead.
Can you share the repo?
A user named kadu was offering it up to all in the earlier thread. He said it’d be available as long as he was around. Just DM him for the link.
I’m just sorry for them. 2.4M dollars? How will they ever pay this? Do you think they will actually have to pay it fully?
I vote they put up a GoFundMe. They deserve the world and Sintendo decided to throw their slimy tentacles all over them.
If they went to trial they could have been blasted for way more. + Legal fees.
It’s a bummer, but don’t feel sorry for them. It was clear violation, they knew they were on thin ice, or should have known.
I wouldn’t call it a clear violation of 17 U.S.C. 1201, but it was a plausible one. I do agree that they would have been blasted for legal fees trying to figure that part out, however.
Nintendo had a leg to stand on, but it was highly dependent on whether the judge would find an emulator’s primary purpose to be DRM prevention. A good judge that does research into the subject likely wouldn’t find it to be the case, since the primary purpose is emulation and decrypting game titles is only a small part of that. Ending up with a luddite or corporate shill judge is always a huge risk, though.
Japanese IP law IIRC, not american.
They sued under the DMCA, though?
Violation of what?
Are you serious? You think the yuzu team is paying 2.4 mil for fun?
It’s quite clear that emulation of Nintendo’s private product is illegal and against tos.
Did I really need to explain that to you?
Edit you may have your opinion on IP law, but that’s just an opinion . There’s no way these devs didn’t know they were in a grey area, at minimum.
It’s quite clear that emulation of Nintendo’s private product is illegal
It’s not.
What is illegal - and what got the Yuzu team who blindly ran into it like idiots despite people warning them about this since ~forever - is making bank from emulating others’ hardware.
In this case, Yuzu made so much money from their patreon that they created an LLC to handle the cash flow. That part in particular made it trivial for a rightsholder - like Nintendo - to show commercial purpose behind the Yuzu project and hence take its developers to court. It’s how they got import injunctions against stuff like the R4 cards, too. Showing commercial purpose is trivial when bloody Amazon is selling your bloody physical product. Or in this case, if there’s a whole LLC just to manage all the money you’re making and blowing on coke/hookers (I don’t even want to know how much money they siphoned off personally if Nintendo could instantly make them agree to >2 mil, they must have a lot of millions around).
and against tos.
That it is, but that’s only grounds for losing online access and shit. Not the same thing as being open to a broadside from Nintendo’s lawyers.
Edit you may have your opinion on IP law, but that’s just an opinion . There’s no way these devs didn’t know they were in a grey area, at minimum.
No, they were fully aware they were in fully illegal territory, IMO.
They have been warned about this frequently since they started their patreon, and recently there was some R4-like action with Switch emulator cards. Which again led to the whole commercial-vs-free discussion for emulators, and they doubled down on their approach and made a company.
IMO, what actually happened is that they set a ton of money aside (we can estimate they got 1.2mil, but I would estimated it at 2x++ that based on how quickly they accepted). They knew Nintendo would eventually sue them. They got the 2.4mil recompensation offer, this is significantly less than they actually made. And hid. So they’re instantly accepting it to “cash out” the rest.
Nintendo’s ToS doesn’t mean anything to people who never agreed to it. Someone can buy a fusee-vulnerable Switch and use tools to dump the
prod.keysand legally-purchased cartridges without ever agreeing to a single thing.Yuzu absolutely went into a gray area with not exclusively using pre-decrypted ROMs. That’s where they opened themselves up to Nintendo’s argument in the lawsuit.
Using a digital product comes with a tos. When you turned on the console the first time you agreed to it. When you used the cloud services you agreed.
The point is that the hypothetical user never used the console’s ToS-encumbered software. Fusee bypasses the bootloader and jumps straight into a user-provided payload, which doesn’t have any terms attached to it. Those payloads are capable of dumping
prod.keysand the data off the cartridges to an SD card.And are the cartridges not Nintendo IP?
the hypothetical user never used the console’s ToS-encumbered software
I mean, yeah, sure. If you never ever actually booted the Switch OS or any games on your emulator, you were never subject ot the ToS. I would wager that’s a tiny minority of users though, no?
They won’t, they are an LLC. They can declare bankruptcy and close down the company. The actual people behind it are not responsible for paying, the company is.
Good luck trying to “shut down” a open source software… Still sucks tho, why Nintendo gotta make so good games but be so shitty of a company otherwise
Unfortunately Nintendo will happily chase anyone that distributes this as aggressively as Metallica chased people around in the Napster days.
Of course the tools will never be fully scoured.
I’ve got a clone of it and am putting it up on IPFS
Seems like a silly thing to post on a massively public forum, but you do you
I’ll sue them for stalking
At least with Metallica, we could laugh at the irony of a band regularly releasing songs about anarchy crying about piracy.
Here is the latest stable build of Yuzu that I’ve got from 24 hours ago for anyone who wasn’t able to download it in time.
Thank you, that’s very considerate of you.
That’s nuts.
No, it’s a citrus fruit.
Uh…
Damn, I modded my Switch JUST in time! Thanks for giving me the motivation, Nintendo!
The team behind Yuzu is different from ReSwitched and Atmosphere, so you were fine either way.
This just means Yuzu agrees to delete their copies of the tools they used and send Nintendo their hacked Switch consoles (probably to be destroyed).
Although the fact that these programs were named means that Nintendo’s Eye of Sauron is on them - the extra attention makes me nervous. I definitely would have modded it this weekend if I hadn’t already decided to last weekend.
There is no world where these tools exists and Nintendo does not know them. It’s not some deep darknet secret lore hidden behind seven-VPN. Anything that happens online about emulation, all the company knows it exists and how it works. The threat never goes away.
I know, but there’s a difference between “knows they exist” and “is naming them in legal documentation”.
Good point.
Of these, I would only really be concerned about nxDumpTool, nxDumpFuse, and Lockpick_RCM as possible to come after using the same strategy, though. And even then, Lockpick_RCM was already taken down and mass redistributed.
It’s not illegal to modify the hardware you own, and the rest of those aren’t directly interacting with Nintendo’s DRM-protected software. The only one that they could arguably go after is Atmosphère, but SciresM has held a very strong public pro-homebrew and anti-piracy stance which makes it extremely hard for Nintendo to argue that it’s primary purpose is DRM circumvention.
I plan on making offline archives of Hekate and Atmosphère at some point, in either case.
Wait Yuzu were behind all the other tools?? Surely that was other people?
Pretty sure they’re all by other people. Maybe they were hosting copies on their own server or something? Possibly they were just using them for Yuzu development.
I did not… 😭
I imagine you’ll still be able to do so for a while, if not forever. But probably worth doing it sooner rather than later if you’re interested, just in case! Modding it has nothing to do with Yuzu, so I’m not sure why these other programs are involved.
That was fast.
Glad I haven’t bought anything Nintendo since the Wii.
They could disappear for all I care.
I didn’t used to Pirate but I think I will now.
Welp. I guess it’s time to pirate double that in Nintendo IP.
That’s wild. But I guess I’m not surprised since the emulator was really good and the system is still out there selling
Are nintendo roms pretty much always going to be publicly preserved and seeded?
Yes. And quite possibly even harder just out of spite.
Excellent 🫱🫲
The list of reasons why I refuse to buy Nintendo products is getting pretty hefty at this point.
What else?
Well there’s the fact that they’re selling switch release titles for full price 7 years later
If they can they will, it’s how supply and demand works. It wouldn’t work if people stopped paying so much for old games.
Yeah I mean that’s literally what the original guy said. This is a reason not to buy their products.
Is it still supply and demand when the supply is infinite?
Yes, if there’s no demand there would be no point in making the supply (the game)
We’re talking about the prices of games that have already been made though. The supply of those specific games is infinite. We’re talking about the prices of certain games (old ones), not all games that are being released now.
I do agree that it makes sense to Nintendo to sell the old games at a high price, but I think supply and demand is probably the wrong phrase.
I’m talking about supply AND demand. If there is infinite supply and zero demand, there would be no point to rerelease these titles. Or they’d bring the price down. This is basic knowledge. If they can get that price for it, they will keep selling it for that price. It’s not rocket science.
I’m not defending the price, I’ve bought plenty and felt dirty doing so lol.
Exactly, and OP is saying they’ve decided to not contribute towards demand anymore
Tbh in a third world country, Nintendo is a very big luxury. I never imagined buying one at any point in my life. I will buy a steamdeck as soon as it launches in my country.
Ryujinx is still around, also fuck Nintendo even thought I had bought all the games I play on Yuzu from here on out if I ever buy a Nintendo console it will be only if there is a method to pirate games on that shit. They don’t deserve my money cause their hardware is shit it was 5 years outdated when the switch came out. I want to play my games at 60 FPS and without my eyes bleeding due to the shit resolution and anti-aliasing. So if they want my money they need to pull a Sony and release their games on pc!
Yuzu fucked up. This is about more than the decryption. Yuzu’s actions (copypasta from a fine redditor):
- Massive patreon, to the point it has an LLC set to manage the money flow
- Early access releases are effectively SOLD, they fucked around with manifest/build files, abused GPL to go after some forks back when they were Citra, attacked other forks/emulators then benefitted from their work and even replicated their practices (like CEMU’s patreon), etc
- Actively targets Switch competitors (Steam Deck, Android), to the point Valve once included it in a marketing reel
- Its presence on the OFFICIAL Android play store rather than an apk competes with Nintendo’s own Android games (undermining both those and the Switch)
- Unauthorized use of Nintendo imagery
- Extensive telemetry, itself juicy data that could be sold for advertisers, on top of Nintendo’s own built-in telemetry that’s also sent
- Patreon marketing is heavily focused on games that broke street day release date, and even when they show some “restraint” it’s just a release day post how much better the game runs on a platform that’s not the Nintendo Switch, in the same launch period where most sales happen
- Progress reports timed suspiciously close to major Nintendo first-party releases
- ATTEMPTED to make a competitor to the Switch Online service, using files from an external preservation group, and it would have been a PAID service, and the subscription MORE EXPENSIVE than Nintendo’s actual service (it was $60 something) despite smaller compatibility, for games still online, as a CLOSED-SOURCE FORK of a GPL PROJECT so that players don’t actually set up their own custom servers to avoid paying Yuzu’s pittance. When there was backlash, they REMOVED all traces of online emulation after they couldn’t profit off it.
Yeah their problem was to make it a commercial operation. At that point it’s trivial for Nintendo to show they’ve enriched themselves on the back of ripped ROMs by enabling them.
Whereas if you do everything for free and don’t even accept donations, they’d have a big problem showing that you have any commercial interest and hence can be sued for damages.
Reverse engineering software (and even using small bits of proprietary code when required) in order to make it compatible with other hardware is fully legal (tons of precedent, for emulation specifically see Sega v Accolade and Sony v Connectix), and selling emulators commercially is also fully legal (Sega v Connectix was about a commercial Playstation emulator for the Mac, Sony v Bleem was about a commercial emulator for the PC and Dreamcast)
Nintendo’s legal claims against Yuzu are completely untested and dubious at best, it’s the threat of spending millions of dollars on lawyers that’s very real and effective, they are yet again simply weaponizing the courts and the DMCA like all the other corpo scum before them
The problem is that this shit is a lot of work that we all benefit from… So how do we compensate the devs?
We don’t, that’s kinda the point. If you want to compensate the developers, you should buy their games.
How about the work of the devs that made the game…?
That’s the neat part, you don’t.
Same as any other type of internet piracy. I don’t give money to some guy ripping his movies or games.
The only way to do things like this is anonymously for the shits and giggles. A Patreon to make it their job is one thing, but the fact that they can pay $2.4million shows it went beyond that.
Very few of those are legally problematic, pretty much just the imagery, possibly GPL issues (but Nintendo wouldn’t have standing for those), and due to copyright weirdness 3rd party online services for games which still have active online services (it shouldn’t be, but that’s how it’s been interpreted)
Not enough for Nintendo to be able to force the project to stop, but they didn’t want to fight it in court I assume
It’s really just that they profited from it.
If it was more than just that, they would have, or will in the near future, go after Ryujinx or the many incoming forks of Yuzu.
Early access releases are effectively SOLD, they fucked around with manifest/build files, abused GPL to go after some forks back when they were Citra, attacked other forks/emulators then benefitted from their work and even replicated their practices (like CEMU’s patreon), etc
Source on this?
Also saying that EA was being sold is false, they were shipping precompiled binaries with the EA branches for the patrons, they were actually using the people that paid them for testing lol.
If you used linux there was even an Aur package that built yuzu ea for you, which I quickly stopped using because EA was just the equivalent of the testing repo of archlinux, if you ever read their updates on their main discord, half the time the next EA release just removed a PR that broke something after release.
Progress reports timed suspiciously close to major Nintendo first-party releases
They only made progress reports once a month lol, and iirc the progress report for totk was several weeks after release even.
Its presence on the OFFICIAL Android play store rather than an apk competes with Nintendo’s own Android games (undermining both those and the Switch)
Nothing wrong here, even dolphin has a official apk on the playstore, and yuzu actually even released a non playstore apk for people like me with an ungoogled phone lol.
Extensive telemetry, itself juicy data that could be sold for advertisers, on top of Nintendo’s own built-in telemetry that’s also sent
Bullshit, their logs only contain info about the hardware, which is something you need to debug lol, Ryu logs are the same.
ATTEMPTED to make a competitor to the Switch Online service, using files from an external preservation group, and it would have been a PAID service, and the subscription MORE EXPENSIVE than Nintendo’s actual service (it was $60 something) despite smaller compatibility, for games still online, as a CLOSED-SOURCE FORK of a GPL PROJECT so that players don’t actually set up their own custom servers to avoid paying Yuzu’s pittance. When there was backlash, they REMOVED all traces of online emulation after they couldn’t profit off it.
I also want a source on this.
I’m not sure how it’ll work since I’m sure no one wants to be sued over a commit, but you pretty obviously can’t kill an open source project so easily.
Nintendo would need to prove that you had and ran the tools locally which is damn near impossible to do. I could create a commit without even opening the solution or compiling it.
It would also put Nintendo up shit creek by turning the entire FOSS community against them.
No, they largely will go after people hosting and distributing the tools. Running it privately is obviously not legal, but wouldn’t rise beyond Nintendo trying to ban you from stuff.
They kinda already did with this lawsuit. With this, no emulator is safe.
A lawyer on the [email protected] thread mentioned that a settlement doesn’t set a precedent, so they’re safe from that at least.
Nintendo’s argument also doesn’t apply to emulators that only work with pre-decrypted ROMs. Anything older than a PS3 doesn’t have encryption at all.
Given that other emulators are now taking down their public facing websites, im not too sure. Hope Im wrong. Going to upvote because Im hoping they are right.
Mind sharing the links?
I know Ryujinx stopped accepting people into their Discord, but that’s all I’m aware of at the moment.
citrix is gone too. Im at work and im sure a complete list will be available after all this.
Citra and Yuzu were made by the same people, no? Makes sense that they would also pull that.
Rip yuzu
