They don’t even need to win elections, everyone was already discussing immigration because of propaganda & news (Messerattacke). They have set the agenda, this now is just more evidence of their success.
This is why I keep telling people we are fucked by focusing in increasing military power in europe even if it appears and is obviously needed. We are going to put all the power at the hands of insane lunatics ready to wage war and put people in ovens.
It’s happening in all countries in Europe. I think in mine we’ll have elections next month or something like that and the extreme right is at 2nd or 3rd position ready to take first or will join hands with another to win. It was so close already last time. No matter how many crimes all their members do and show up in the news every week.
It’s what the people want. Most people everywhere are ok and want homicidal narcissist and sociopathic people in charge of them.
Did you not realize that they performed incredibly well in the elections? Social media is how they will overthrow the last remaining democracies. France, UK and Canada are next. All the young folks are increasingly more conservative and within 2-6 years, it’s going to be game over.
We really should stop using the term “conservative” for what the self proclaimed “conservative” parties are doing. Because they don’t conserve anything. They do the exact opposite. They exploit and destroy.
It’s not a new term, it has been around for a few centuries now. People who want to revert change, go back to the perceived good old times. Fascist is overused these days, and I’d argue reactionary hits a nice descriptive middle ground between conservative (which they are not, any more) and fascist (which many of them aren’t yet). Hit them where they are, not where they move to
I do agree with and appreciate the nuance, it’s clear from your careful wording you understand conservatism by definition doesn’t have a cause to stand for, hence reactionary. It’s apt in a good faith discussion.
My problem is supplying ammunition for bad faith discussion. Like what “libertarians” are to conservatives. They’ll claim they’re not conservatives, they’re just libertarians. All the while supporting the same goals with a different name.
I don’t disagree, but when one part of society uses word A and the other part uses word B that would only further increase polarization, which already is a serious problem. I think it’d be better it we continue using the name they use for themselves, but point out what a weird name it is for them. So we could tell them for example that we find it strange they consider themselves “conservative” parties because they don’t conserve anything. They do the exact opposite. They exploit and destroy.
The problem is that more simple minded people who are actually conservative, as they want to conserve society as it is, will easily fall for the propaganda and vote for a party that is out to destroy what they want to conserve.
The self proclaimed standing of a party is part of its propaganda. Unfortunately the media are complicit with the parties on perpetuating their propaganda, by calling parties by their chosen adjectives, rather than by what would be more fitting. Conservatives should rather be called “Destructives”, and in many countries, “Social Democrats” are rather Neoliberals, for they have long sold out social democracy to the highest bidder and now follow an extremist free market ideology, their only remaining difference to the “Conservatives” being not wanting to return to societal norms from 60 years ago.
Populist intentionally choose words that attract potential voters, they will continue to do that. But calling them out for not being real conservatives because they act different is definitely helpful.
You’re calling other people “more simple minded” when you don’t understand the difference between the different meanings of the word conservative lol. The political meaning of “conservative” is different than “conservative” as in “we need to conserve water”. Completely different things.
The problem is that more simple minded people who are actually conservative, as they want to conserve society as it is, will easily fall for the propaganda and vote for a party that is out to destroy what they want to conserve.
The real problem is that “conserve society as it is” was always a lie, unless the “as it is” you’re talking about happened to be monarchy. Conservatism, as an ideology, was founded in support of monarchism. A society run by an aristocratic elite has always been the thing they’re trying to conserve.
It’s bizarre that I have to explain this, but “conservative” in political terms does not mean “to conserve” as in “we need to conserve water” etc. It means favoring free enterprise, private ownership, and socially traditional ideas.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, maybe people just don’t like to hear it. You’re not wrong.
To add, these people generally have more kids, and raise them to be conservative. It’s depressing. It might take some severe hardship on people to shift left again? Not sure what that is, hopefully not another world War.
The shift left is not happening until theres a major (most likely violent) crisis. As it is, America will become Russia 2.0 and this will probably be the staus quo for a while.
Is the proper response: Well shit.
They don’t even need to win elections, everyone was already discussing immigration because of propaganda & news (Messerattacke). They have set the agenda, this now is just more evidence of their success.
Sad.
This is why I keep telling people we are fucked by focusing in increasing military power in europe even if it appears and is obviously needed. We are going to put all the power at the hands of insane lunatics ready to wage war and put people in ovens.
It’s happening in all countries in Europe. I think in mine we’ll have elections next month or something like that and the extreme right is at 2nd or 3rd position ready to take first or will join hands with another to win. It was so close already last time. No matter how many crimes all their members do and show up in the news every week.
It’s what the people want. Most people everywhere are ok and want homicidal narcissist and sociopathic people in charge of them.
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I have no trust in the current coalition to make that happen…
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If the government doesn’t fall like it does here regularly 😮💨
Best of luck to you and your country staying sane-ish a little longer.
Did you not realize that they performed incredibly well in the elections? Social media is how they will overthrow the last remaining democracies. France, UK and Canada are next. All the young folks are increasingly more conservative and within 2-6 years, it’s going to be game over.
We really should stop using the term “conservative” for what the self proclaimed “conservative” parties are doing. Because they don’t conserve anything. They do the exact opposite. They exploit and destroy.
The correct term is reactionary.
Just call it what it is. It’s fascist. It’s the fascist party. All of these - afd, maga, same unimaginative shit.
Inventing new terms is what these fuckers want. Remind them they’re not new and been wrong before.
It’s not a new term, it has been around for a few centuries now. People who want to revert change, go back to the perceived good old times. Fascist is overused these days, and I’d argue reactionary hits a nice descriptive middle ground between conservative (which they are not, any more) and fascist (which many of them aren’t yet). Hit them where they are, not where they move to
I do agree with and appreciate the nuance, it’s clear from your careful wording you understand conservatism by definition doesn’t have a cause to stand for, hence reactionary. It’s apt in a good faith discussion.
My problem is supplying ammunition for bad faith discussion. Like what “libertarians” are to conservatives. They’ll claim they’re not conservatives, they’re just libertarians. All the while supporting the same goals with a different name.
I don’t disagree, but when one part of society uses word A and the other part uses word B that would only further increase polarization, which already is a serious problem. I think it’d be better it we continue using the name they use for themselves, but point out what a weird name it is for them. So we could tell them for example that we find it strange they consider themselves “conservative” parties because they don’t conserve anything. They do the exact opposite. They exploit and destroy.
The problem is that more simple minded people who are actually conservative, as they want to conserve society as it is, will easily fall for the propaganda and vote for a party that is out to destroy what they want to conserve.
The self proclaimed standing of a party is part of its propaganda. Unfortunately the media are complicit with the parties on perpetuating their propaganda, by calling parties by their chosen adjectives, rather than by what would be more fitting. Conservatives should rather be called “Destructives”, and in many countries, “Social Democrats” are rather Neoliberals, for they have long sold out social democracy to the highest bidder and now follow an extremist free market ideology, their only remaining difference to the “Conservatives” being not wanting to return to societal norms from 60 years ago.
Populist intentionally choose words that attract potential voters, they will continue to do that. But calling them out for not being real conservatives because they act different is definitely helpful.
You’re calling other people “more simple minded” when you don’t understand the difference between the different meanings of the word conservative lol. The political meaning of “conservative” is different than “conservative” as in “we need to conserve water”. Completely different things.
The real problem is that “conserve society as it is” was always a lie, unless the “as it is” you’re talking about happened to be monarchy. Conservatism, as an ideology, was founded in support of monarchism. A society run by an aristocratic elite has always been the thing they’re trying to conserve.
It’s bizarre that I have to explain this, but “conservative” in political terms does not mean “to conserve” as in “we need to conserve water” etc. It means favoring free enterprise, private ownership, and socially traditional ideas.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, maybe people just don’t like to hear it. You’re not wrong.
To add, these people generally have more kids, and raise them to be conservative. It’s depressing. It might take some severe hardship on people to shift left again? Not sure what that is, hopefully not another world War.
The shift left is not happening until theres a major (most likely violent) crisis. As it is, America will become Russia 2.0 and this will probably be the staus quo for a while.
No, I didn’t. I’ve been drowning in depression keeping up with what is happening in the US.
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