I mean, in fairness, do we have any qualms with the rest of the company? Elon was directly responsible for pretty much all of the cyber truck decisions. But the regular Tesla’s, aside from Elon prohibiting lidar and making false claims about self driving, are pretty decent. Without him, lidar might get implemented, the cyber truck will probably be scrapped, and real engineers will have their voices heard again.
Isn’t that kind of what we want from a company? To realize their errors and remove the cancerous parts?
He will still have a shitload of shares. I don’t need to get into the nitty-gritty detail of whether I hate the company or its products; his stock in it is what allowed him to buy the election for Trump, so fuck Tesla.
But did Tesla facilitate that or was Tesla worn like a puppet by an investor(Elon). There’s a distinct difference and what I’m asking. Do we blame every company that gets gutted by Venture Capitalists? Do they have no path to redemption?
do we have any qualms with the rest of the company
Let’s say they can him. Let’s say he is somehow compelled to sell off stock until he’s a minitority shareholder. His ego would not let that go. To say he’s still filthy fucking rich would do a disservice to filth. You can’t separate him from this mess. He’d just come back.
If he just disappeared tomorrow, no chance of repurchasing it, just maybe but we need to see:
Unions everywhere
OSHA up their ass
Put some fucking LiDAR on the cars
Reinvent quality control
Reinvent a safety program so that people can’t burn to death locked in their car.
Fully support individual resale.
Fully support 3rd party service centers.
Every car is modified until it gets at least a three-star crash rating
All features are purchased with the car, if your seat has a heater, you can use it for free.
One feature is “we don’t sell” or “store your data in a way that can identify you”
Car updates are transparent and unless a true safety hazard, optional.
No more of this screwing around with odometers to speed past warranty availability and everyone gets 30k more miles and another year because they were assholes.
not OP, I wouldn’t mind a redemption arc, they were pretty f’ing cool before he got there.
Everything that was on the market before tesla was a facimilie of a thousand other cars before it. They did something (for better or worse) different. Learning what not to do has power in itself.
After they took the leap, all of a sudden a lot of other companies started throwing out prototypes. I don’t think the Volt I drive today would have happened if they didn’t go there first.
Of course things got a lot worse as Elon butted in further and they started pushing QC out and cybertruck BS in.
I think they’re likely irredeemable, but I’d like to see another company follow in their footsteps and keep pushing the tech further, not in a garbage dumpster direction, but in a simpler and more effective direction.
Everything that was on the market before tesla was a facimilie of a thousand other cars before it.
Dude, every one of their generic sedan looking business fleet cars look so bleh that they make a mid-90s Dodge Neon look like mind-blowing body design.
The only thing they’ve produced in the last ten years that’s even markedly different from the competition is the cybertruck, and that’s only different in a bad way.
The “innovations” they brought to market are almost all shit I would never need nor want save the EV part of it. I cannot imagine ever wanting to drive a thing in which much of the control and all of the gauges are on a permanently mounted, great value iPad.
They are saying the resale value on these things is going through the floor, and honestly that’s good because that’s what they are worth.
Not talking about the body shape I could give a s*** less about that, matter of fact as places bring out different body shapes it kind of irrationally pisses me off. I’m talking about the design of the suspension and what they did with 360 camera coverage, how they handled the dual motors, The headlight emitters are actually multiple LED arrays and they can spell out shit in the headlights if they want to. All that crap was new and different. The only thing They really introduced that everyone else followed on and I hate is putting every blessed thing on a touch screen in the middle of the car.
I didn’t know the headlight thing was one of their innovations. Yet another thing I can blame them for because driving in front of one of them at night is like a mild form of torture.
I honestly don’t want innovation at all in my car personally. If Honda could make another edition of the electric Fit I would buy it immediately and drive it until it collapsed into dust.
Yes, and that’s another reason the company is failing, and I won’t buy a car from them. But, that’s not the point here, the point is Musk’s stupid antics are having major consequences for him. The only value he’s had for the company for years is as a mascot. The company succeeded so far as it has in spite of Musk, not because of him. Same for SpaceX.
It’s literally the opposite. The company has only done well in the past because of his antics. Tesla currently has a price per earning ratio of 155. It’s only even this low because now people realize he’s a Nazi. In the past, I’ve seen their price per earning ratio go as high as 350. If you know anything about stock fundamentals, you’d know that a normal ratio is around 20-30. Anything under would be a must buy stock and anything over would be a must sell, generally but not always.
But not Telsa. This isn’t the first quarter sales have been down for Telsa. In the past when it happened, Elon would just do something stupid like launch a car into space, make a small flame thrower, or do some stupid meme shit and the price would still go up, despite a bad earnings call.
Since the first non roadster Telsa, they have been making shit quality cars and selling features as a subscription. If it wasn’t for captain dipshit doing stupid stuff and fooling people into thinking he’s smart, that company would have failed. Or he would have sold his portion back to the original owners and they company might have produced quality cars like the Roadster.
Not true. The company did well because of well meaning people who wanted to move away from gas cars. There was literally a documentary “who killed the electric car” before Tesla. It showcased a well loved electric car that was only allowed to be leased and when the lease was up, no one was allowed to buy them. They destroyed them all.
Tesla got to where it is not because of Musk, but because it was a way to rise against the legacy manufacturers forcing us to stay on gas cars.
Musk stirred up some major stupidity, and did not care for quality control when it came to things like panel alignment, but the fact was that was the only option out there. They also added cool things like your phone being a key, or the key card. Lots of little quality of life improvements were brought in. Also I think they had to make a special gel and position for the batteries to not cause fires from a single battery failure. Lots of important (yet likely relatively simple) improvements that all the other manufacturers refused to do. Best we had was a Prius, and other cars that were for some reason made to look ugly and still needed gas anyways.
But they have stagnated. Musk has done all his tricks and they stopped improving. Literally letting the competitors make better batteries soon, which would kill them entirely if solid state batteries come about. I don’t know that Tesla can or needs to come back to the forefront, but without them we probably still would not have electric cars.
Look man I get it, you bought a Tesla and/or hold Tesla stock. But Tesla’s value is only explainable as a meme stock, and Musk is the only one keeping it in that category.
It wouldn’t shock me at all if the stock finally fell through the floor if they ousted Musk.
The board and the shareholders agree about this btw, they just gave Musk an unbelievably large pay package last June.
Oh sorry I wasn’t trying to say that shouldn’t happen. The cars should be worth a bit less than they sell for, and the stock should be worth maybe 1/10th of it’s current value… Or less. I don’t care about that.
We still needed SOMETHING to get us out of the rut from legacy manufacturers. Now if they get rid of Elon then hopefully the engineers who helped pioneer the current EVs can get back to moving things forward. Or maybe they work for Rivian or others already.
There are plenty of competition in EV that’s non-legacy manufacturers. Even the legacy manufacturers themselves make better EVs than Teslas. So I don’t know what your concern is.
Calling a company, which actively vendor-locks pretty much the whole car using their propiatery software while having the worst warranty ever, pretty decent is beyond me.
They’re overvalued in the triple multiples compared to other American car companies because they’re a meme stock and halfway ran on government subsidies we paid for rather than putting it into education or social causes.
A step in the right direction isn’t good enough when there’s miles to tread.
Good, fuck em. There’s no negotiation here. I don’t care if the entire company goes under. What great service is Tesla providing? Not enough mobile beta-testers riding bombs down the rosd? They do nothing for the people supporting them.
I guess a new company will have to rise up so entitled Californians can be tricked by marketing into thinking they’re saving the planet when the batteries were mined by gas-powered machines using the same poor brown folk they feel sorry for on Bluesky.
At this point, it would be tempting to have all their employees quit and start their own EV company, or join another one. It’s not like the people vanish when a company folds.
Aptera is doing another round of funding (for like the 7th time)
Slate immediately got funded by Bezos.
I think the market is pretty clear. People want cheaper, smaller, and more “every day” EVs, rather than the insanity 1.2 second 0-60 dystopian-proof luxury crossovers/trucks.
The first company to make that happen in their niche is going to make bank.
I’m pretty sure he means that there’s no point in trying to please you because you’ll always set a goalpost that can’t be reached, so there’s no point in really considering your opinion.
What I find funny about this discussion is that the board is denying the reports that they’re even trying to replace him. People want to redeem this company based upon rumors of myths of games of telephone that they might have thought about making a good decision once.
I think you’re probably giving a potential new CEO too much credit. You really think that Elon will just relinquish control over his company and let the CEO do whatever? Not a chance.
I mean, in fairness, do we have any qualms with the rest of the company? Elon was directly responsible for pretty much all of the cyber truck decisions. But the regular Tesla’s, aside from Elon prohibiting lidar and making false claims about self driving, are pretty decent. Without him, lidar might get implemented, the cyber truck will probably be scrapped, and real engineers will have their voices heard again.
Isn’t that kind of what we want from a company? To realize their errors and remove the cancerous parts?
Are you assuming Elon would no longer own stock or have other ways he’d continue to profit from Tesla?
He will still have a shitload of shares. I don’t need to get into the nitty-gritty detail of whether I hate the company or its products; his stock in it is what allowed him to buy the election for Trump, so fuck Tesla.
But did Tesla facilitate that or was Tesla worn like a puppet by an investor(Elon). There’s a distinct difference and what I’m asking. Do we blame every company that gets gutted by Venture Capitalists? Do they have no path to redemption?
The BOD was quite insistent on giving Musk a $56 billion bonus.
It’s bizarre that you’re even entertaining this as an idea.
Unless Musk loses all of his shares, not sold, and not only some, all of them - Tesla is complicit in providing power to Elon Musk.
No they do not have a path to redemption as long as it is *literally the reason he was able to buy (and manipulate for his own gains) Twitter.
Its shareholders sure did.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/elon-musk-pay-package-vote-cbs-news-explains/
Let’s say they can him. Let’s say he is somehow compelled to sell off stock until he’s a minitority shareholder. His ego would not let that go. To say he’s still filthy fucking rich would do a disservice to filth. You can’t separate him from this mess. He’d just come back.
If he just disappeared tomorrow, no chance of repurchasing it, just maybe but we need to see:
Why do you want a redemption arc for this overvalued company so bad? You holding a bag?
not OP, I wouldn’t mind a redemption arc, they were pretty f’ing cool before he got there.
Everything that was on the market before tesla was a facimilie of a thousand other cars before it. They did something (for better or worse) different. Learning what not to do has power in itself.
After they took the leap, all of a sudden a lot of other companies started throwing out prototypes. I don’t think the Volt I drive today would have happened if they didn’t go there first.
Of course things got a lot worse as Elon butted in further and they started pushing QC out and cybertruck BS in.
I think they’re likely irredeemable, but I’d like to see another company follow in their footsteps and keep pushing the tech further, not in a garbage dumpster direction, but in a simpler and more effective direction.
Dude, every one of their generic sedan looking business fleet cars look so bleh that they make a mid-90s Dodge Neon look like mind-blowing body design.
The only thing they’ve produced in the last ten years that’s even markedly different from the competition is the cybertruck, and that’s only different in a bad way.
The “innovations” they brought to market are almost all shit I would never need nor want save the EV part of it. I cannot imagine ever wanting to drive a thing in which much of the control and all of the gauges are on a permanently mounted, great value iPad.
They are saying the resale value on these things is going through the floor, and honestly that’s good because that’s what they are worth.
Not talking about the body shape I could give a s*** less about that, matter of fact as places bring out different body shapes it kind of irrationally pisses me off. I’m talking about the design of the suspension and what they did with 360 camera coverage, how they handled the dual motors, The headlight emitters are actually multiple LED arrays and they can spell out shit in the headlights if they want to. All that crap was new and different. The only thing They really introduced that everyone else followed on and I hate is putting every blessed thing on a touch screen in the middle of the car.
I didn’t know the headlight thing was one of their innovations. Yet another thing I can blame them for because driving in front of one of them at night is like a mild form of torture.
I honestly don’t want innovation at all in my car personally. If Honda could make another edition of the electric Fit I would buy it immediately and drive it until it collapsed into dust.
Chevy’s Bolt isn’t too over the top
If you really want to get back to basics, this looks promising
https://www.theverge.com/electric-cars/655527/slate-electric-truck-price-paint-radio-bezos
Yeah I have a hang-up on Chevy because I owned two Cavaliers and they were terrible.
I have thought about it though, the Chevy Bolts look pretty similar to a Fit.
I’m was also considering going with one of the Hyundais if Honda can’t get their act together.
I also don’t think I want a truck.
Tesla was garbage before Elon came out as a Nazi. The quality control is non existent and has been.
Yes, and that’s another reason the company is failing, and I won’t buy a car from them. But, that’s not the point here, the point is Musk’s stupid antics are having major consequences for him. The only value he’s had for the company for years is as a mascot. The company succeeded so far as it has in spite of Musk, not because of him. Same for SpaceX.
It’s literally the opposite. The company has only done well in the past because of his antics. Tesla currently has a price per earning ratio of 155. It’s only even this low because now people realize he’s a Nazi. In the past, I’ve seen their price per earning ratio go as high as 350. If you know anything about stock fundamentals, you’d know that a normal ratio is around 20-30. Anything under would be a must buy stock and anything over would be a must sell, generally but not always.
But not Telsa. This isn’t the first quarter sales have been down for Telsa. In the past when it happened, Elon would just do something stupid like launch a car into space, make a small flame thrower, or do some stupid meme shit and the price would still go up, despite a bad earnings call.
Since the first non roadster Telsa, they have been making shit quality cars and selling features as a subscription. If it wasn’t for captain dipshit doing stupid stuff and fooling people into thinking he’s smart, that company would have failed. Or he would have sold his portion back to the original owners and they company might have produced quality cars like the Roadster.
Not true. The company did well because of well meaning people who wanted to move away from gas cars. There was literally a documentary “who killed the electric car” before Tesla. It showcased a well loved electric car that was only allowed to be leased and when the lease was up, no one was allowed to buy them. They destroyed them all.
Tesla got to where it is not because of Musk, but because it was a way to rise against the legacy manufacturers forcing us to stay on gas cars.
Musk stirred up some major stupidity, and did not care for quality control when it came to things like panel alignment, but the fact was that was the only option out there. They also added cool things like your phone being a key, or the key card. Lots of little quality of life improvements were brought in. Also I think they had to make a special gel and position for the batteries to not cause fires from a single battery failure. Lots of important (yet likely relatively simple) improvements that all the other manufacturers refused to do. Best we had was a Prius, and other cars that were for some reason made to look ugly and still needed gas anyways.
But they have stagnated. Musk has done all his tricks and they stopped improving. Literally letting the competitors make better batteries soon, which would kill them entirely if solid state batteries come about. I don’t know that Tesla can or needs to come back to the forefront, but without them we probably still would not have electric cars.
Look man I get it, you bought a Tesla and/or hold Tesla stock. But Tesla’s value is only explainable as a meme stock, and Musk is the only one keeping it in that category.
It wouldn’t shock me at all if the stock finally fell through the floor if they ousted Musk.
The board and the shareholders agree about this btw, they just gave Musk an unbelievably large pay package last June.
Oh sorry I wasn’t trying to say that shouldn’t happen. The cars should be worth a bit less than they sell for, and the stock should be worth maybe 1/10th of it’s current value… Or less. I don’t care about that.
We still needed SOMETHING to get us out of the rut from legacy manufacturers. Now if they get rid of Elon then hopefully the engineers who helped pioneer the current EVs can get back to moving things forward. Or maybe they work for Rivian or others already.
There are plenty of competition in EV that’s non-legacy manufacturers. Even the legacy manufacturers themselves make better EVs than Teslas. So I don’t know what your concern is.
Calling a company, which actively vendor-locks pretty much the whole car using their propiatery software while having the worst warranty ever, pretty decent is beyond me.
Especially a company belonging to the car lobby.
To be fair, I think people get blinded by the fact that Elon is a massive twat, and miss all the other little bits.
We do, as he’s the biggest shareholder 🙃
They’re overvalued in the triple multiples compared to other American car companies because they’re a meme stock and halfway ran on government subsidies we paid for rather than putting it into education or social causes.
A step in the right direction isn’t good enough when there’s miles to tread.
So all or nothing? Then you’ll get nothing.
Good, fuck em. There’s no negotiation here. I don’t care if the entire company goes under. What great service is Tesla providing? Not enough mobile beta-testers riding bombs down the rosd? They do nothing for the people supporting them.
I guess a new company will have to rise up so entitled Californians can be tricked by marketing into thinking they’re saving the planet when the batteries were mined by gas-powered machines using the same poor brown folk they feel sorry for on Bluesky.
Cry a river.
At this point, it would be tempting to have all their employees quit and start their own EV company, or join another one. It’s not like the people vanish when a company folds.
No one’s going to fund a new company though. The old car companies have finally moved to EVs and will quash newcomers. Funders know this.
Telo is getting funded.
Aptera is doing another round of funding (for like the 7th time)
Slate immediately got funded by Bezos.
I think the market is pretty clear. People want cheaper, smaller, and more “every day” EVs, rather than the insanity 1.2 second 0-60 dystopian-proof luxury crossovers/trucks.
The first company to make that happen in their niche is going to make bank.
Telo started 3 years ago, probably pitching for VC a year or 2 longer. Things have changed a lot in the last 4 to 5 years.
Aptera was founded 2019, originally 2006. And a trike? Not gonna be mass market.
Slate also started 3 years ago. When the visions of getting rich off EVs was still dancing in everyone’s head (not that bezos cares about that).
The business has moved. Smart money would not start a car company today without a competitive advantage like battery tech.
This is the reason Tesla love H1B visas.
I’m pretty sure he means that there’s no point in trying to please you because you’ll always set a goalpost that can’t be reached, so there’s no point in really considering your opinion.
Maybe lemmy isn’t for you.
Corporate apologists belong on Reddit with the rest of the fascists.
Yeah, why post on lemmy? Is there no path to redemption for Reddit? 😂
Hmmmm…
nope! Reddit’s path is pretty well charted down the rabbithole of enshittery.
Is the appropriate response
Until they get rid of Spez, the greedy piggy boi?
What I find funny about this discussion is that the board is denying the reports that they’re even trying to replace him. People want to redeem this company based upon rumors of myths of games of telephone that they might have thought about making a good decision once.
I think you’re probably giving a potential new CEO too much credit. You really think that Elon will just relinquish control over his company and let the CEO do whatever? Not a chance.
His company? You say that like Elon owns Tesla. He doesn’t even have a controlling share.
It’s the board of directors that has that control.