They’re so well regulated that they can safely drive on roads with no speed limit, whereas the US for example has pretty low limits and multiple times the fatal crashes (proportionally to population)
This. Of course it would be even better with limits on the Autobahn, and in fact a majority of people are in favour of such a change (especially if the limit is at 130-140). Our governments are in the pocket of the car industry though, politicians act as if our whole freedom is endangered talking about it (now where do we know that from? 🙃).
Things can always be better, but A.I. definitely doesn’t improve an absolutely shitty mobility system like the US has (which is basically nothing but cars). If anything it will make shit even more… off the rails. 😏
Yeah but then what’s the point of visiting Germany as a tourist slash petrolhead?
Jokes aside, I’m of the opinion that existing freedoms are generally best left alone. Besides, Germany has a lower rate than Estonia and we have much lower speed limits. 120 on newly built separated highways in the summer (actually these might have 120 with good conditions in winter too - they have digital signage), 110 on old separated highways and in October or so, they go and collect all the 110 signs and replace them with 100… And up to 90 everywhere else.
There’s a good chance the limitless autobahn is actually part of what makes German numbers so good. It just requires stricter training and policing, stricter TÜV and for people to always check their mirrors before switching lanes. And just good lane discipline in general. You don’t get that in a lot of Europe. People switch lanes whenever because they’re going 10 over the speed limit and can’t possibly imagine someone else is going faster than them, potentially very close behind, in the other lane.
PS: traffic fun fact: Did you know that in Latvia, a two lane undivided highway has up to four active lanes? There’s the law abiding citizen lanes (known as shoulders in the west) and the BMW/Audi lanes in the middle, marked by the white lines.
There’s a good chance the limitless autobahn is actually part of what makes German numbers so good
There’s a chance, but I don’t think you argued why would it be a good chance.
It just requires stricter training and policing, stricter TÜV and for people to always check their mirrors before switching lanes.
Changing lanes and overtaking are always some of the most risky moments. It’s always going to be much much safer if everybody drives the same speed vs. if you have to dodge because people are going 250 km/h for lulz. If you have the stricter training and policing, you still can improve safety by introducing speed limits.
If you have the stricter training and policing, you still can improve safety by introducing speed limits.
What is going to be the excuse for keeping the stricter training and near authoritarian policing if there are speed limits? Nearly no other country is this anal about who can and can’t drive on their roads. Maybe Singapore, since they require you to be a millionaire to even get a car.
and for people to always check their mirrors before switching lanes.
Oh, I wish.
I don’t think your expectation of adapted behaviour is correct on a societal level, and given how many deaths could’ve prevented by a speed limit… people drastically overestimate their abilities and underestimate the speed and force of impact all the time. If the road is going slow right now or someone missed their exit people will still drive like maniacs. Not to mention that there’s also other good reasons for a speed limit, environmental and economical (with ICE cars you don’t immediately feel how much more you’re paying in money and convenience/time, but EVs will tell you that immediately = more CO², more costs individually and for society, less sane car purchases).
I don’t think strict TÜV, training etc. is connected to a lack of speed limit either. It’s more of a cultural thing in society, and of course to politics and how well people are off.
I get your opinion about preserving existing freedoms. It’s always a balance, however in this case I think this personal freedom to go fast is in no relation to other people’s right to save travel, and future generations’ right of well-being.
The emissions part I’ll have to agree on, but safety? Germany is literally among the safest nations to drive in. There’s not much lower you can go.
As ICE vehicles get phased out, people will naturally start driving fast less often. EVs force you to stop for much longer when you run out of charge. Driving 2x as fast means making 4x as many stops and the stops aren’t 3 minutes with an EV.
The emissions part I’ll have to agree on, but safety? Germany is literally among the safest nations to drive in. There’s not much lower you can go.
Always room for improvement, especially if there’s such an unnecessary reason it’s “only” 16th place.
Regarding EVs: You didn’t really acknowledged the economics arguments but simply assume that ICEs will be faced out. Which might still be true even in the worst of all economical situations, however my argument also entailed that people want to buy EVs. Giving ICEs and EVs equal footing in a “free” market is a good thing unless you want offset not doing so with a heavy hand with more regulations. One way or another we need this change asap, so a regulation that’s literally everywhere but here, has support from a majority of people and benefits every cause there is makes the most sense if you ask me.
“Top 10 in road safety” also has a nice ring to it.
EVs have to be legislated into being the only choice anyway. There’s no way around it, they’re unfortunately inferior for a lot of people’s use cases still. We’ve grown accustomed to the energy density of fossil fuels and being able to keep cars running out of warranty. A quick look at the replacement battery cost of an original Audi E-Tron will reveal that at this point, EVs are expensive paper weights once out of warranty.
Those problems are being fixed with newer vehicle designs though. The charging speed (the 800V systems seem to reach sub 20 minutes consistently by now), range (450+ km appear to become normal, the more fancy ones even got over 650km) and economics (battery packs become repairable and way more affordable even for a full replacement, especially given the savings in other expenses compared to ICE) seem to check out. The main problems are infrastructure, lack of affordable second-hand options… and honestly that stupid idea that cars should be our primary mode of transportation. Damn, we even got viable alternatives to lithium-ion batteries by now, that technology didn’t properly evolve for half a century or sth.
The data on battery longevity is also promising, they stay at usable capacities way longer than expected. Those first generation EVs just age really poorly given they’re, well… first generation. The technology is developing at breakneck speeds for the last decade.
On a sidenote, don’t let anyone tell you european EVs are somehow worse than chinese (they are not). They’re just more expensive due to a fortunate lack of slavery, and generally higher standards of everything in the production chain compared to China.
Ah yes the good regulations on german public roads
They’re so well regulated that they can safely drive on roads with no speed limit, whereas the US for example has pretty low limits and multiple times the fatal crashes (proportionally to population)
This. Of course it would be even better with limits on the Autobahn, and in fact a majority of people are in favour of such a change (especially if the limit is at 130-140). Our governments are in the pocket of the car industry though, politicians act as if our whole freedom is endangered talking about it (now where do we know that from? 🙃). Things can always be better, but A.I. definitely doesn’t improve an absolutely shitty mobility system like the US has (which is basically nothing but cars). If anything it will make shit even more… off the rails. 😏
Yeah but then what’s the point of visiting Germany as a tourist slash petrolhead?
Jokes aside, I’m of the opinion that existing freedoms are generally best left alone. Besides, Germany has a lower rate than Estonia and we have much lower speed limits. 120 on newly built separated highways in the summer (actually these might have 120 with good conditions in winter too - they have digital signage), 110 on old separated highways and in October or so, they go and collect all the 110 signs and replace them with 100… And up to 90 everywhere else.
There’s a good chance the limitless autobahn is actually part of what makes German numbers so good. It just requires stricter training and policing, stricter TÜV and for people to always check their mirrors before switching lanes. And just good lane discipline in general. You don’t get that in a lot of Europe. People switch lanes whenever because they’re going 10 over the speed limit and can’t possibly imagine someone else is going faster than them, potentially very close behind, in the other lane.
PS: traffic fun fact: Did you know that in Latvia, a two lane undivided highway has up to four active lanes? There’s the law abiding citizen lanes (known as shoulders in the west) and the BMW/Audi lanes in the middle, marked by the white lines.
There’s a chance, but I don’t think you argued why would it be a good chance.
Changing lanes and overtaking are always some of the most risky moments. It’s always going to be much much safer if everybody drives the same speed vs. if you have to dodge because people are going 250 km/h for lulz. If you have the stricter training and policing, you still can improve safety by introducing speed limits.
What is going to be the excuse for keeping the stricter training and near authoritarian policing if there are speed limits? Nearly no other country is this anal about who can and can’t drive on their roads. Maybe Singapore, since they require you to be a millionaire to even get a car.
Oh, I wish. I don’t think your expectation of adapted behaviour is correct on a societal level, and given how many deaths could’ve prevented by a speed limit… people drastically overestimate their abilities and underestimate the speed and force of impact all the time. If the road is going slow right now or someone missed their exit people will still drive like maniacs. Not to mention that there’s also other good reasons for a speed limit, environmental and economical (with ICE cars you don’t immediately feel how much more you’re paying in money and convenience/time, but EVs will tell you that immediately = more CO², more costs individually and for society, less sane car purchases).
I don’t think strict TÜV, training etc. is connected to a lack of speed limit either. It’s more of a cultural thing in society, and of course to politics and how well people are off.
I get your opinion about preserving existing freedoms. It’s always a balance, however in this case I think this personal freedom to go fast is in no relation to other people’s right to save travel, and future generations’ right of well-being.
The emissions part I’ll have to agree on, but safety? Germany is literally among the safest nations to drive in. There’s not much lower you can go.
As ICE vehicles get phased out, people will naturally start driving fast less often. EVs force you to stop for much longer when you run out of charge. Driving 2x as fast means making 4x as many stops and the stops aren’t 3 minutes with an EV.
Always room for improvement, especially if there’s such an unnecessary reason it’s “only” 16th place. Regarding EVs: You didn’t really acknowledged the economics arguments but simply assume that ICEs will be faced out. Which might still be true even in the worst of all economical situations, however my argument also entailed that people want to buy EVs. Giving ICEs and EVs equal footing in a “free” market is a good thing unless you want offset not doing so with a heavy hand with more regulations. One way or another we need this change asap, so a regulation that’s literally everywhere but here, has support from a majority of people and benefits every cause there is makes the most sense if you ask me.
“Top 10 in road safety” also has a nice ring to it.
EVs have to be legislated into being the only choice anyway. There’s no way around it, they’re unfortunately inferior for a lot of people’s use cases still. We’ve grown accustomed to the energy density of fossil fuels and being able to keep cars running out of warranty. A quick look at the replacement battery cost of an original Audi E-Tron will reveal that at this point, EVs are expensive paper weights once out of warranty.
Those problems are being fixed with newer vehicle designs though. The charging speed (the 800V systems seem to reach sub 20 minutes consistently by now), range (450+ km appear to become normal, the more fancy ones even got over 650km) and economics (battery packs become repairable and way more affordable even for a full replacement, especially given the savings in other expenses compared to ICE) seem to check out. The main problems are infrastructure, lack of affordable second-hand options… and honestly that stupid idea that cars should be our primary mode of transportation. Damn, we even got viable alternatives to lithium-ion batteries by now, that technology didn’t properly evolve for half a century or sth.
The data on battery longevity is also promising, they stay at usable capacities way longer than expected. Those first generation EVs just age really poorly given they’re, well… first generation. The technology is developing at breakneck speeds for the last decade.
On a sidenote, don’t let anyone tell you european EVs are somehow worse than chinese (they are not). They’re just more expensive due to a fortunate lack of slavery, and generally higher standards of everything in the production chain compared to China.