Those seem incompatible to me.

(UBI means Universal Basic Income, giving everyone a basic income, for free)

  • PostProcess@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    6 months ago

    Studies in motivational theory have been around for years which generally agree that at a very basic level people need security first, not necessarily to motivate but to be in a position to be motivated. Repeatedly pay has been proven to be a poor motivator over time. By removing the basic insecurity that people face, you give them a chance to focus on actual motivating factors like job satisfaction, self-worth and realisation.

    • Eldritch@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      6 months ago

      Absolutely. Security is the enemy of fear and capitalism. Fear as Frank Herbert put it, is the mind killer. If we have security, all of a sudden the horrendous business practices capitalism has been built on and motivated by. Sort of fall apart. Go to work in a soul crushing job, with a toxic environment, for too little pay? Why, when you could stay home and start your own business, maybe even become a better competitor. Or just wait for something better to come along.

      Fear is the tool of the powerful. Whether it’s fear of some group they tell you to fear. Or fearing them directly. Without fear, many of the crises we seem to constantly be juggling. Would find themselves solved. Humanity has the ability to feed and house everyone. Right now. The reason we don’t is that the wealthy and powerful would lose wealth and power. And we can’t have that.

      • intensely_human@lemm.ee
        cake
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        6 months ago

        If security is the enemy of capitalism, how do you explain people who have their needs met, who still strive under capitalism?

        • Eldritch@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          6 months ago

          People who have their needs met would strive regardless of capitalism. You need to show that they strive because of capitalism. The problem is, capitalism doesn’t meet the needs of a large amount of people. No matter how hard they strive. Nor should it be necessary for them to. Worse capitalism short changes them. And is very inefficient.

  • Sekrayray@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    6 months ago

    The sad thing about UBI in places like the US is they further systematic change needs to happen prior to UBI being implemented.

    If you have UBI added on to our current capitalist hellscape (since UBI rates will be publicly known) landlords and corporations will just hike prices to make life cost just as much as UBI—therefore forcing people to work for any scrap above that. So essentially UBI will be fed back into corporations/the elite, who will also continue to make profit on the labor the lower class does to afford anything above basic necessities.

    • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      6 months ago

      who will also continue to make profit on the labor the lower class does to afford anything above basic necessities

      If someone can afford basic necessities, they aren’t going to choose to work three jobs at minimum wage where they are treated badly, forcing an improvement in pay/conditions to find any workers. As for setting prices arbitrarily, that isn’t actually possible except where a monopoly is held, the idea that supply and demand influences price is not a myth. Having money and the choice of how to spend it does actually give you additional agency and leverage, and UBI would serve as a form of redistribution if it is funded by taxes of some kind.

      • ZoopZeZoop@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        6 months ago

        Except that landlords are coming together to set prices so that they can all set them high. I don’t remember what the group is called, but someone was discussing it a while back. Doesn’t have to be a monopoly if they’re conspiring, which is what is happening with so many consumer goods and services.

        • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          6 months ago

          I’ve seen that stuff but it’s too much to assume that this kind of coordination is the controlling factor in housing prices, or most other prices. You do need a monopoly because there’s too much incentive for defecting from the conspiracy if the fixed price is too far away from what the market price would be. I think housing is expensive mainly because of supply being suppressed and wealth inequality, and UBI would begin to address the latter.

          • ZoopZeZoop@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            6 months ago

            How do you explain cereal being $8 a box, when it was $5 pre-COVID or the million other products that now cost more? There are recordings of board meetings that were leaked of board members admitting that they inflated prices or unnecessarily kept prices inflated because they knew people would pay it.

            • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              6 months ago

              Why could that not have an explanation that is primarily about economic forces? They printed a ton of money around when Covid happened, and the distribution of wealth shifted significantly. I can buy that businesses could be eking out a little more efficiency by coordinating, but not that we are in a secret command economy and economics is basically all fake.

              • orrk@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                6 months ago

                the “printing of money” has fuck all to do with inflation, and mainly comes from pop-economics that is stuck somewhere around mercantilism.

                Corporation simply realized that they are playing the prisoner’s dilemma with prices, and are now going for the “optimal solution”

                • intensely_human@lemm.ee
                  cake
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  6 months ago

                  How do you figure you can increase the number of dollars in circulation, while shrinking the economy, and not have each dollar be worth less wealth as a result?

            • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              edit-2
              6 months ago

              the use of this software prevented landlords from courting would-be renters through the use of different discounts, said the lawsuit. For instance, landlords sometimes offer move-in deals or compete on prices but the use of Yardi’s algorithmic pricing tool disrupted that practice, claimed the attorneys …

              Overall, the rate of rent growth has fallen back toward historical norms after nearly two years of historically high growth.

              Like I mentioned in another comment, I can see how this kind of thing could make some difference in pricing by avoiding giving renters deals that wouldn’t have actually been necessary to secure a lease. That’s very far from being evidence that supply and demand doesn’t even apply and the market price is dictated by fiat, which is an absurd conspiracy theory that doesn’t follow at all from any of the articles being linked.