• raccoona_nongrata@beehaw.org
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    8 months ago

    There are people who through some combination of nature and nurture find themselves wanting to be treated in a way which aligns much closer to how one gender gets treated in a particular society.

    How people of different gender treat one another is completely cultural though. It’s arbitrary. You could have a culture where genders treat one another completely the same yet trans people would still exist because of dysphoria. It’s not about culture, it’s about their relationship to their bodies. It’s why a trans person would still be trans even if they were socially isolated and alone, they might not have a way to understand why they feel dysphoria and it may manifest differently, but they would still feel it because it’s a biological reality of who they are.

    No one is erasing anyone – I’m saying that wanting to behave a certain way, or dress a certain way, sleep with a particular kind of person, or be treated socially a certain way is all perfectly fine but it’s not ultimately related to being trans. Otherwise you could claim a crossdresser were trans or people who claimed they were “attack helicopters” would have to be accepted as trans because there would literally be no argument you could make against it. You are defining trans people out of their own experience to avoid simply acknowledging that some things are a result of being trans and some things are not.

    It is okay if we accept that not everyone is trans. It doesn’t make people’s experience or desires less valid, whether they end up being trans or not, if anything it helps them live with a more clear sense of themselves. Same way people shouldn’t feel “excluded” because they’re straight instead of gay. But it would be harmful for a straight person to squish and stretch the definition of being gay so that it included them because “I like dressing flamboyantly, so that makes me gay even though I don’t like people of the same sex. And if you disagree with me you’re erasing me”. We would all recognize it as nonsense and it would be offensive for that person to speak on behalf of gay people’s lived experience, even undermining the basis of their established rights.

    • Gaywallet (they/it)@beehaw.org
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      8 months ago

      No one is erasing anyone

      You’re literally erasing me, lol. I’m agender and trans. I did not start transitioning because of gender dysphoria. I don’t even experience gender dysphoria. If you don’t think I have the right experience to identify as trans, that’s on you my friend, but I’m not going to change my labels because you don’t think that I exist. I’m sorry if you feel that my existence jeopardizes your existence or invalidates it in any way, because there are many compatible world views in which it does not.

      Ultimately it doesn’t matter either way - I only intervened here because you got reported for not being nice. So please, stop it.

      • raccoona_nongrata@beehaw.org
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        8 months ago

        I’m literally in the process of losing my right to life saving medical care in my country because of that philosophy. Because people think being trans is just a made up social thing. What is your skin in the game that entitles you to not only to represent me but to force me into silence? To tell people that it’s just made up after trans people have fought for decades and decades to get the most basic recognition and medical care? How is that nice?

        And this is the core of the problem, I can’t be silent on this because allowing people to perpetuate the belief that being trans is a made up social construct is actually effecting trans people in a real material way.

        Do whatever you want with that. I won’t be back either way.

        • jarfil@beehaw.org
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          8 months ago

          I’m literally in the process of losing my right to life saving medical care in my country because of that philosophy. Because people think being trans is just a made up social thing.

          Are you sure it’s because of that particular philosophy, and not of some people’s philosophy stemming from some “sacred” book, or a desire to control the sexuality of others?

        • Gaywallet (they/it)@beehaw.orgM
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          8 months ago

          At no point am I arguing that it is a made up social construct. I’m just letting you know about my existence. If my existence threatens you so much that you must throw me into a box that is not you, then go ahead and do so. I’m not out here shouting at the world about how people like me exist, I’m merely replying to your attempt to erase me. There are compatible world views which don’t erase me - which many other people have pointed out here.

          I’m sorry that your country is taking away your right to life saving medical care. The same thing is happening in my country. I’d rather spend my time and energy on preserving access to medical care for everyone than fighting with folks online. Best of luck, I hope things improve for you. 💜

    • alyaza [they/she]@beehaw.orgM
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      8 months ago

      Otherwise you could claim a crossdresser were trans or people who claimed they were “attack helicopters” would have to be accepted as trans because there would literally be no argument you could make against it.

      this just sounds like a skill issue on your part, i’m sorry–this is not an issue if you have a postmodernist understanding of gender, which most trans people (myself included) subscribe to.

      at the end of the day when you drill down? there really is not a material difference between the “real” and “fake” genders–gender is entirely socially constructed, and the designations of “male” and “female” that most people fall into are as arbitrary as any xenogender (real or frivolously created by right-wingers). you only “lose” by entertaining frivolous designations if your understanding of gender is already so narrow that you can’t conceptually accommodate anything beyond a handful of stock gender identities to begin with.

      • raccoona_nongrata@beehaw.org
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        8 months ago

        this is not an issue if you have a postmodernist understanding of gender, which most trans people (myself included) subscribe to.

        No, that’s an impression people in your position create by silencing those who disagree. Which is exactly the issue.

        The reason xenogenders and transgender genders are not the same is because one is based on our dimorphic sexual physicality, and the other is based on metaphysical invention. It’s the whole reason that the attack helicopter meme has no actual power – because humans are not and have never been “part helicopter” but we are part male and female.

        • davehtaylor@beehaw.org
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          8 months ago

          The reason xenogenders and transgender genders are not the same is because one is based on our dimorphic sexual physicality, and the other is based on metaphysical invention.

          So you’re not only transmedicalist, but somehow also a gender essentialist?