Hitler came to power with the support of capitalists (here meaning “people who own substantial capital” rather than “ideological supporters of capitalism”). They saw him as a way to maintain order against socialism and to break the power of unions. A similar story happened in Italy, and in other fascist countries.
Many capitalists did in fact benefit from fascism. There’s some confusion about fascist economic policies, but you should know that the term “privatization” was first coined to describe the economic policy of Nazi Germany. When they nationalized companies, it was because they were minority owned, and often they were redistributed upwards to the capitalists.
Labor rights suffered tremendously under fascism, with labor organizations exterminated, allowing capitalists to impose much worse conditions, lower pay, and longer hours on the workers, as well as using prisoners for slave labor. Any attempt to challenge these conditions would be considered treasonous, undermining the war effort.
Even when their countries were defeated militarily, many capitalists got off scot-free. For example, the pharmaceutical company Bayer (which merged with Monsanto in 2016) was once a part of IG Farben, which manufactured Zyklon B for the gas chambers. After the war, Bayer rehired Nazis to high level positions, including for example Fritz ter Meer, who had been on IG Farben’s board of directors and became chairman of Bayer, despite being a convicted Nazi war criminal.
There is no such thing as “true capitalism”. The perfect company sells no product, pays no tax’s, and employees no one, yet continues to make money anyway. These greasy fucks don’t want to be competitive in the market, they just want money. And will use gov forces to crush it if possible.
Capitalists advocate against Government intervention in the markets. To a capitalist the only laws that should exist are those that protect people, property, and assets allowing for free and open trade amongst individuals and corporations.
AHAHAHHA, why the fuck would a capitalist not lobby the government to restrict a regulate the market in ways that are favorable to them, and detrimental to their competition? It’s literally just another leaver to pull to make more money. They don’t give a fuck about the philosophy of it. The only thing that matters to a capitalist is making more money, by any means necessary. Deluding yourself of anything else is insanity.
Capitalism is an Economic structure, Fascism is a Political ideology. Fascism does not benefit a Capitalist because it imposes heavy regulation on the free market to benefit themselves which is anti Capitalist.
They’re talking about capitalism in practice. In practice, economic policy is shaped less by ideology and more by they relative power of economic classes. When the rich have power, they get policies that favor themselves enacted, and vice versa. It’s only in theory that capitalism is about “free markets,” in practice, the rich support free markets if they alternative is something that’s more harmful to themselves (like taxes and nationalization) and oppose them when the alternative is beneficial to themselves (subsidies).
“Free market capitalism” is a purely theoretical idea that has never existed, and will never exist, because someone’s always going to have enough power to get the government to intervene in the economy to promote their own interests. Generally, left-wing people talking about capitalism mean capitalism in practice, not the theoretical idea.
Ignoring the core principle of Capitalism, free markets, makes it impossible to actually talk about Capitalism in theory or in practice.
Your argument against can be used for every other economic system as well, so it becomes a matter of pros and cons which will never declare a clear winner and always demonstrate a mixed economy is best for everyone involved.
I think a blend of Socialism in the form of UBI for basic needs, social housing, full access to education and medical care, mixed with a Capitalist market economy seems likely to be best.
Capitalists lose under both Socialism and Fascism. Neither Political structure benefits a pure Capitalist because both systems impose heavy regulation on the free market which is anti Capitalist.
Capitalism and Fascism do not work together. Capitalism and Socialism do not work together.
The prior because Fascists impose heavy regulation on the markets to benefit themselves, and the latter because Socialism is a Socioeconomic ideology which replaces the need for Capitalism within it.
The argument is that capitalism directly and basically infallibly leads to fascism. It’s not supposed to, but it’s a consistent emergent behaviour of the system.
Feel free to demonstrate this with some data, and don’t ignore the fact that Communism and Socialism has never produced anything other than Fascism while Capitalism is the economic model most used by Democratic countries.
Fascism still has rich business owners, at least until it collapses, and most of them just move to safer waters when that happens. Whether it not they are actual capitalists is the question. They were at the start, but then once in control of a market most of them are aimed at becoming monopolists, and fascism is cheapest way to get to a monopoly.
Capitalists don’t really benefit under Fascism, so I don’t see why a true Capitalist would support a fascist and help them gain power.
Historically, you’re completely wrong.
Hitler came to power with the support of capitalists (here meaning “people who own substantial capital” rather than “ideological supporters of capitalism”). They saw him as a way to maintain order against socialism and to break the power of unions. A similar story happened in Italy, and in other fascist countries.
Many capitalists did in fact benefit from fascism. There’s some confusion about fascist economic policies, but you should know that the term “privatization” was first coined to describe the economic policy of Nazi Germany. When they nationalized companies, it was because they were minority owned, and often they were redistributed upwards to the capitalists.
Labor rights suffered tremendously under fascism, with labor organizations exterminated, allowing capitalists to impose much worse conditions, lower pay, and longer hours on the workers, as well as using prisoners for slave labor. Any attempt to challenge these conditions would be considered treasonous, undermining the war effort.
Even when their countries were defeated militarily, many capitalists got off scot-free. For example, the pharmaceutical company Bayer (which merged with Monsanto in 2016) was once a part of IG Farben, which manufactured Zyklon B for the gas chambers. After the war, Bayer rehired Nazis to high level positions, including for example Fritz ter Meer, who had been on IG Farben’s board of directors and became chairman of Bayer, despite being a convicted Nazi war criminal.
There is no such thing as “true capitalism”. The perfect company sells no product, pays no tax’s, and employees no one, yet continues to make money anyway. These greasy fucks don’t want to be competitive in the market, they just want money. And will use gov forces to crush it if possible.
Capitalists advocate against Government intervention in the markets. To a capitalist the only laws that should exist are those that protect people, property, and assets allowing for free and open trade amongst individuals and corporations.
AHAHAHHA, why the fuck would a capitalist not lobby the government to restrict a regulate the market in ways that are favorable to them, and detrimental to their competition? It’s literally just another leaver to pull to make more money. They don’t give a fuck about the philosophy of it. The only thing that matters to a capitalist is making more money, by any means necessary. Deluding yourself of anything else is insanity.
You are getting down voted because you should read Marx before commenting about capitalism on Lemmy haha.
Hell he should read Adam Smith cause he’s got some ideas that ain’t in there.
Not only do capitalists benefit from fascism, as history has consistently shown, but fascism is the end result of capitalism.
Capitalism is an Economic structure, Fascism is a Political ideology. Fascism does not benefit a Capitalist because it imposes heavy regulation on the free market to benefit themselves which is anti Capitalist.
You are coming at this with econ 101 level understandings.
The people you’re arguing against here know the text book definition of capitalism.
The issue is you are talking about some kind of “Adam Smith capitalism” but everyone else is using the term to mean what it actually is in practice.
If you want to understand this point of view, the quickest way is to read Marx.
Who on earth told you the free market had anything to do with capitalism? LOL.
Thank you for demonstrating your lack of good faith early.
Sure buddy.
Feel free to explain how this is a good faith comment.
They’re talking about capitalism in practice. In practice, economic policy is shaped less by ideology and more by they relative power of economic classes. When the rich have power, they get policies that favor themselves enacted, and vice versa. It’s only in theory that capitalism is about “free markets,” in practice, the rich support free markets if they alternative is something that’s more harmful to themselves (like taxes and nationalization) and oppose them when the alternative is beneficial to themselves (subsidies).
“Free market capitalism” is a purely theoretical idea that has never existed, and will never exist, because someone’s always going to have enough power to get the government to intervene in the economy to promote their own interests. Generally, left-wing people talking about capitalism mean capitalism in practice, not the theoretical idea.
Ignoring the core principle of Capitalism, free markets, makes it impossible to actually talk about Capitalism in theory or in practice.
Your argument against can be used for every other economic system as well, so it becomes a matter of pros and cons which will never declare a clear winner and always demonstrate a mixed economy is best for everyone involved.
I think a blend of Socialism in the form of UBI for basic needs, social housing, full access to education and medical care, mixed with a Capitalist market economy seems likely to be best.
Yeah but the choice is between socialism and fascism, and capitalists stand to lose a lot under socialism.
Capitalists lose under both Socialism and Fascism. Neither Political structure benefits a pure Capitalist because both systems impose heavy regulation on the free market which is anti Capitalist.
Capitalism and Fascism do not work together. Capitalism and Socialism do not work together.
The prior because Fascists impose heavy regulation on the markets to benefit themselves, and the latter because Socialism is a Socioeconomic ideology which replaces the need for Capitalism within it.
The argument is that capitalism directly and basically infallibly leads to fascism. It’s not supposed to, but it’s a consistent emergent behaviour of the system.
Feel free to demonstrate this with some data, and don’t ignore the fact that Communism and Socialism has never produced anything other than Fascism while Capitalism is the economic model most used by Democratic countries.
Fascism still has rich business owners, at least until it collapses, and most of them just move to safer waters when that happens. Whether it not they are actual capitalists is the question. They were at the start, but then once in control of a market most of them are aimed at becoming monopolists, and fascism is cheapest way to get to a monopoly.
Tell that to communism.