Apologies for my conduct faltering. I wanted to go to sleep, and I don’t actually like extended arguments over what feels like obvious knowledge. I do understand where you’re coming from with your perspective on stereotypes. They hurt me in much more dangerous ways in my day-to-day life. However, “stereotypes=bad” removes the nuance from the conversation and diminishes lived experience.
To continue using the bear, not all bears are going to maul you on sight, but we assume they will, because that will keep you alive in a survival scenario. That is a valuable stereotype. Likewise, when a woman is e.g. at a bar and a man offers her a drink, she’d be correct in assuming the man has the capacity to roofie her drink and rape her, so being vigilant keeps her safer than blindly trusting a stranger. Another valuable stereotype. If I see a cop, I assume he wants to imprison or kill me for my skin color, and I do what a can to avoid being a situation where a cop would be anywhere near me. It doesn’t matter that the rule isn’t universal. My safety comes first.
Yes, stereotypes can and will be weaponized to hurt vulnerable people, but this is a weapon utilized by oppressors more than the oppressed. A white man is the most powerful thing in our society right now due to our history rich in white supremacy, misogyny, and forced disparity between perceived in and out groups. In this specific case of a woman stating that men make her feel threatened, this is not a weapon, but a tool. The only thing it hurts is the feelings of men who can’t read between the lines. If a white man says a black man ringing his doorbell deserves to be shot to death because he could be dangerous, we have a very different dynamic. Think predator vs prey. The predator is trying to kill. The prey is trying to survive. Survival should not offend you.
This is a fantastic response and despite are our disagreements on the topic I just want to thank you for being real about it. Thank you for the apology as well but want to say that you certainly did not owe me one for your conduct. These long texts degrade the value of what would probably have been a really good conversation in person and I do not doubt that my choices of words and phrasing probably came off as dismissive. Passion is an important part of perspective and we seem to have had a very different set of circumstance we grew up an continue to live in.
I grew up as a white male in a rural town with parents who were way too young but thankfully grandparents who were able to prevent us from living in total poverty. One year an uncle of mine died in a car jacking to a few black men and more than half of my close family just up and decided all black people were bad over night. A spark lighting powder keg of pent up confirmation bias. I was to young to understand it well at the time since I was in 2nd grade but my best friend at the time was the only black kid in my school within like 4 grades and when I couldn’t invite him to my birthday party later that year and no one could explain why. I was oblivious and angry but looking back he was depressingly somehow already accepting of the injustice. We played basketball at recess and still talked plenty but we drifted apart and it took me a long time to understand why.
There is obviously much more like this than just the one incident but suffice to day I’m in my 30s now, moved away to a large city, and I don’t keep in contact with really any of my family with the exception of a 1 cousin (who is also a bit racist at times but serving 3 tours in the military opened his eyes for the most part)
Granted I’m coming at this hatred of stereotypes for selfish injustices rather than countless erosions of my perceive value as a person but I’m passionate about the value of treating others equally none the less.
To continue using the bear, not all bears are going to maul you on sight, but we assume they will, because that will keep you alive in a survival scenario. That is a valuable stereotype. Likewise, when a woman is e.g. at a bar and a man offers her a drink, she’d be correct in assuming the man has the capacity to roofie her drink and rape her, so being vigilant keeps her safer than blindly trusting a stranger.
This analogy helps I guess. I’ll be honest, I still strongly dislike the concept at a level that also feels blindingly obvious to me too but because I want to argue that anyone should be at least somewhat suspicious of any stranger offering you a drink regardless of gender.
I just find this whole viral event to be of diminished impact because it hinges on so many women saying something so exist because there are a lot of men who do need to hear from women they trust that their actions (even those with innocent intent) carry the power to strike fear in those same women that they would feel awful for scaring… But they aren’t going to hear that because this preposterous doubling down that any random bear is less dangerous than any random man is the thing all the loud and obnoxious assholes who make toxic masculinity and what-a-bout-ism their whole personality are going to latch onto.
Have the conversation, make your feelings known, but starting off on this false pretense just ruins the impact so throughly that it’s hard to not be frustrated. I know it’s a technicality and that it’s petty but most people resist change and introspection because it is hard and awkward to navigate. This gives them an out so the reach is now crippled.
I strongly agree that stereotypes are used by oppressors to terrorize and diminish the oppressed but with one added facet… The oppressors often do not see themselves as the oppressor. Most people with advantages in life don’t often see them as advantages. They still have difficulties and issues and traumas that they focus on and when someone comes along saying “I’ve had it worse in this particular regard” they don’t stop to compare objectively they just keep doing exactly what they are already doing until it impacts them. And if that ends up impacting them negatively, of course they are going to resist. Just like anyone would want to regardless of their relative situation when they feel they are being treated unjustly.
This text chain is becoming impossible to read on mobile, so I’ll keep my response short.
I thoroughly appreciate you offering your perspective, and I do agree that some bad actors will take this in the worst possible way. I suppose it’s difficult to control opposing echo chambers in a way that brings us together. I’m sorry to hear about your friend. It’s a shame this was the type of world we were given to change. In all sincerity, you’ve given me a different way to think about things, and I hope you get to live your favorite life.
Apologies for my conduct faltering. I wanted to go to sleep, and I don’t actually like extended arguments over what feels like obvious knowledge. I do understand where you’re coming from with your perspective on stereotypes. They hurt me in much more dangerous ways in my day-to-day life. However, “stereotypes=bad” removes the nuance from the conversation and diminishes lived experience.
To continue using the bear, not all bears are going to maul you on sight, but we assume they will, because that will keep you alive in a survival scenario. That is a valuable stereotype. Likewise, when a woman is e.g. at a bar and a man offers her a drink, she’d be correct in assuming the man has the capacity to roofie her drink and rape her, so being vigilant keeps her safer than blindly trusting a stranger. Another valuable stereotype. If I see a cop, I assume he wants to imprison or kill me for my skin color, and I do what a can to avoid being a situation where a cop would be anywhere near me. It doesn’t matter that the rule isn’t universal. My safety comes first.
Yes, stereotypes can and will be weaponized to hurt vulnerable people, but this is a weapon utilized by oppressors more than the oppressed. A white man is the most powerful thing in our society right now due to our history rich in white supremacy, misogyny, and forced disparity between perceived in and out groups. In this specific case of a woman stating that men make her feel threatened, this is not a weapon, but a tool. The only thing it hurts is the feelings of men who can’t read between the lines. If a white man says a black man ringing his doorbell deserves to be shot to death because he could be dangerous, we have a very different dynamic. Think predator vs prey. The predator is trying to kill. The prey is trying to survive. Survival should not offend you.
This is a fantastic response and despite
areour disagreements on the topic I just want to thank you for being real about it. Thank you for the apology as well but want to say that you certainly did not owe me one for your conduct. These long texts degrade the value of what would probably have been a really good conversation in person and I do not doubt that my choices of words and phrasing probably came off as dismissive. Passion is an important part of perspective and we seem to have had a very different set of circumstance we grew up an continue to live in.I grew up as a white male in a rural town with parents who were way too young but thankfully grandparents who were able to prevent us from living in total poverty. One year an uncle of mine died in a car jacking to a few black men and more than half of my close family just up and decided all black people were bad over night. A spark lighting powder keg of pent up confirmation bias. I was to young to understand it well at the time since I was in 2nd grade but my best friend at the time was the only black kid in my school within like 4 grades and when I couldn’t invite him to my birthday party later that year and no one could explain why. I was oblivious and angry but looking back he was depressingly somehow already accepting of the injustice. We played basketball at recess and still talked plenty but we drifted apart and it took me a long time to understand why.
There is obviously much more like this than just the one incident but suffice to day I’m in my 30s now, moved away to a large city, and I don’t keep in contact with really any of my family with the exception of a 1 cousin (who is also a bit racist at times but serving 3 tours in the military opened his eyes for the most part)
Granted I’m coming at this hatred of stereotypes for selfish injustices rather than countless erosions of my perceive value as a person but I’m passionate about the value of treating others equally none the less.
This analogy helps I guess. I’ll be honest, I still strongly dislike the concept at a level that also feels blindingly obvious to me too but because I want to argue that anyone should be at least somewhat suspicious of any stranger offering you a drink regardless of gender.
I just find this whole viral event to be of diminished impact because it hinges on so many women saying something so exist because there are a lot of men who do need to hear from women they trust that their actions (even those with innocent intent) carry the power to strike fear in those same women that they would feel awful for scaring… But they aren’t going to hear that because this preposterous doubling down that any random bear is less dangerous than any random man is the thing all the loud and obnoxious assholes who make toxic masculinity and what-a-bout-ism their whole personality are going to latch onto.
Have the conversation, make your feelings known, but starting off on this false pretense just ruins the impact so throughly that it’s hard to not be frustrated. I know it’s a technicality and that it’s petty but most people resist change and introspection because it is hard and awkward to navigate. This gives them an out so the reach is now crippled.
I strongly agree that stereotypes are used by oppressors to terrorize and diminish the oppressed but with one added facet… The oppressors often do not see themselves as the oppressor. Most people with advantages in life don’t often see them as advantages. They still have difficulties and issues and traumas that they focus on and when someone comes along saying “I’ve had it worse in this particular regard” they don’t stop to compare objectively they just keep doing exactly what they are already doing until it impacts them. And if that ends up impacting them negatively, of course they are going to resist. Just like anyone would want to regardless of their relative situation when they feel they are being treated unjustly.
This text chain is becoming impossible to read on mobile, so I’ll keep my response short.
I thoroughly appreciate you offering your perspective, and I do agree that some bad actors will take this in the worst possible way. I suppose it’s difficult to control opposing echo chambers in a way that brings us together. I’m sorry to hear about your friend. It’s a shame this was the type of world we were given to change. In all sincerity, you’ve given me a different way to think about things, and I hope you get to live your favorite life.