This is purely a rant because I don’t want to end up writing an effort post about this topic.
Every year, we see Westerners posting about the “Tiananmen Square Massacre” across social media. Their devotion to “fighting the oppressive Chinese government” is like fucking clockwork. It’s so reliable that if you wanted to, you can prepare posts and comments to counter their narratives months before each June 4th. The western narrative has been debunked thoroughly even by Western sources.
But the point of this post isn’t to complain about the twisting of events, but the glaring contradiction that is their relative (or absolute) lack of posts about events outside of China that were equally or even more brutal than they claim June 4th was.
Why is that?
Why aren’t they posting as regularly about the genocide of indigenous people in their own countries? Why aren’t they posting so frequently about the massacres in Jakarta? Why aren’t they posting as regularly about the bombing of Nagasaki or Hiroshima or Nagasaki or Dresden or Yemen or Iraq of Afghanistan or Syria? Why aren’t they posting each year about the famines Britain engineered in India and other countries? Why don’t I see yearly posts about the Nanjing Massacre? That also occurred in China. Why don’t I see the same reminders about the transatlantic slave trade?
The governments that perpetrated (and in some cases, continue) many of these atrocities still exist and are still oppressing the people who were targeted during these events. This is why they say they target China, right?
Hell, the Holocaust and the subsequent resurgence of facism sees less attention from Westerners than the June 4th incident these days.
The reason for this disparity is that these people don’t actually give a shit whether the Chinese people are oppressed. When they say “I hate the Chinese government, but I don’t hate the Chinese people,” they don’t give a shit whether the Chinese people support and continue to build their current government. It’s not about supporting others, it’s about asserting the dominance and righteousness of the Western world. Not only can they not empathize with those outside the West, they put immense effort into doing the opposite.
It’s about convincing themselves that they live in a just society and that, despite how badly they are oppressed, they could always be worse off. It’s racist, but that racism serves a purpose: it is the copium that keeps them convinced that it’s ok to be oppressed by their own governments.
I don’t rant because I expect the sinophobic propaganda to disappear. I rant because I’m tired of the racism. I rant because I’m tired of the ignorance. I rant because all I want is to see people show others a bit of empathy, to show a little skepticism when they are told others are evil, a little curiosity about the other’s point of view, but I’m constantly disappointed.
Rant over. Thanks for listening.
They don’t give a fuck about anyone. Even the fucking onion is doing posts about “uyghur genocide” right now because of white supremacist anxieties about a nation that is powerful enough not to cause any harm to the empire but powerful enought to not be exploited by them. As an exercise, I went back to look at their Gaza genocide posts and it’s like 1 in the last few weeks.
Sakai was right. Not sorry.
Fuck all people who kill unarmed protesters in the name of freedom. Wherever, whenever.
yes.
that’s unrelated to this post but yes, you’re absolutely right
Except that it also means fuck the people who ordered the killing of unarmed civilians on the Tiananmen square.
there were no such people, so I guess we’re still in agreement 👍
🤡👍
Fuck the American crackdown on student protestors or the Zionist militia that’s arresting and killing journalists or anyone speaking against them
deleted by creator
Yes
lol
I think we should post about both. I’m British and feel free to critique my government and the shitty actions and war crimes we have conducted in the past. Education and awareness is key.
Is it biased for some to focus on China and not others? Absolutely. Is it racist? No. And that really is a dangerous precedent we shouldn’t allow. Israel often uses racism (and accusations of antisemitism) to explain criticism on their actions and focus only on their actions. It absolutely not. Criticism of nation states and their actions of important and we shouldn’t allow governments to duck scrutiny. Atrocities committed against people of any race, religion or viewpoint are wrong, and we can never be allowed to justify them, or we are simply no better, just biased in a different way.
I have been worried about trends to suppress and delete comments about it (ml) under the guise of racism. I find liberal biases and whining absolutely tiresome, but giving them justifiable ammunition isn’t helping to win any arguments.
I appreciate my post my not be received well, but I certainly feel it is important that it us said.
to do my best to engage in good faith, could you let me know what you think about this interview with the person who took the famous ‘tank man’ photo?
it’s from cbs news: https://www.cbsnews.com/video/tank-man-photographer-reflects-on-30-years-since-tiananmen-square/
Neither Washington nor Moscow was and is a well-honed propaganda strategy employed by the CIA, US State Dept, western media, etc. It doesn’t matter to them if you’re willing to criticize them, they don’t care as long as in the same breath you criticize their enemies, implicitly acknowledge their propaganda, validate their contention that yes, things have been done badly here BUUUT the numbers of death and human rights violations (according to western propaganda) are much higher over there, thus naturally it’s better over here than there. After which comes the next step of dismissal which is “stop whining, things could be worse, be grateful, you have no idea how privileged you are, how dare you attack this great country why do you know in blah blah blah you can’t even blah blah blah?”.
People who say this are not engaging in critical thinking. You criticize the west but do you believe the Chinese media? Do you read their perspectives? If their media is invalid because they abuse human rights, so should the media you read from the west be invalid. Yet this is never the case. It is never the case that such propaganda is examined, subjected to ruthless criticism and introspection with outside the empire perspectives and discarded. Even when there is a history of people calling out problems time and again and being ignored in the moment, do you listen to them in future or breathlessly await the latest piece of China bad news to make you feel slightly better about your problems?
Self-effacing and dishonest acknowledgement with a framing that it’s still the best you’re going to get is not helpful. Acknowledging too little too late and offering worthless words of salve to the victims.
Education and awareness are worthless. The past is the past. It only matters if you learn to prevent it in the present and future. Do you think the dead care about you saying what was done to them is wrong? Do those suffering today from the western military/intelligence actions who you will say you feel sorry about in 10 years care that in 10 years you will be sad and acknowledge the wrong or do they care about you understanding the wrong, spotting it now and speaking up to stop it NOW. Not to deflect, not to “but China worse” their suffering.
Look no further than many of those mindlessly defending “isreal” and their genocide. There are many among them who understand the holocaust, who know the history all too well. Yet they didn’t take away the right lessons, they took away that it was bad it happened to Jews but it’s good when it happens to Palestinians who are deserving. They take away something that’s frozen, disconnected, it gives them no analytical power to prevent the next atrocity unless it’s exactly like the last.
This kind of thinking is never accompanied by an honest assessment that one can’t really impact the process in China, the problems in China. All one can do is assist aggression by powers that have historically, time and again done bad things (often to the very same countries these accusations are against).
Is it not proper to clean one’s own yard first before screaming at your neighbor and going to knock down their fence to try and force them to fix their yard? Yet the priority is always on their yard, on the soothing balm, the salve that at least you live in a less bad place than those savages in China, Russia, wherever. A complacency, a smugness, a racially tinged feeling that for all the problems in your land, it has many upsides while their land has few. A feeling that their problems would justify violence, revolution, uprising, but your problems should be solved by working within a system that has never done anything but appropriate the memories of its victims while continuing the victimization and has been happy to brutally crush any real dissent and threats to it time and again.
Minimization of real western atrocities in favor of playing up, laser-focusing on accusations against others.
Education and awareness is key.
so I’m sure you’ll read these!
Mango Press: The Tian’anmen Square ‘Massacre’: The West’s Most Persuasive, Most Pervasive Lie.
Red Sails: Another View of TiananmenIf people would spend a second on places like this they’d see how much effort is put into highlighting actual atrocities and how much people fight for actual justice, instead of glorifying failed coups supported by the west, who then go on a decade long fake news campaign because they can’t cope with it. If people would channel the hate they have for China based of false allegations and put it towards their own government actively funding a genocide, their countries would burn down. But that would require effort on their behalf, and that is harder than just posting ‘lol China bad winnieh the poohpooh’.
all that they hate in communism is precisely what they’re “enjoying” in capitalism, that’s the indoctrination that they ironically fear
Hearing libs talk about how in China the internet is tightly controlled and heavily propagandized while uncritically believing all corporate news on how evil X, Y and Z foreign countries are and ignoring the fact that the western internet is dominated by a handful of US companies with revolving doors to the US state… now that’s something
In commemoration of the massacre at Tiananmen square on the Fourth of June 1989, I shall now repeat the names of all the brave freedom fighters who died there:
They will never forgive China for stopping their colour revolution.
exactly, this is what it’s all about in the end
Yeah, they just don’t like red unless it’s pouring from our bodies.
It’s so bizarre how focused they are on body counts, yet they also don’t give a shit about body counts?
Tankies are tankies because they support the evil godless Soviets who clamped down on the 1956 Hungarian Uprising. How many people were killed? 3000 according to Radio Free Europe. Highly Inflated VoC numbers say 20 thousand.
Around the same time one of the many colonial wars, the Algerian War of Independence— a million dead? 1.5 million? They don’t even know exactly.
All this was committed by the “democratic” West. (Just look at the Atrocities and war crimes section on Wikipedia. Genuine Waffen-SS level war crimes.)
The difference is in magnitudes.
And this is just Algeria.
but I’m constantly disappointed.
Disappointing choices are the cornerstone of the human race.
I try to be positive and believe that people are inherently good, the bad is just harder to overlook. Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. My faith in my chosen belief has really been tested lately.
The real answer to your, I assume rethorical, list of questions is because the event you are listing are either less famous or less controversial.
I hope you can be at peace now.
And the reason for them being less famous is described in the post.
maybe you should ask yourself why multiple man inflicted genocides and famines are more famous than the state responding violently to a protest that was actively lynching and burning people alive
lynching and burning people alive
Source? I don’t recall color revolutions being this violent but that’s mostly because of media.
As below the sources are good, i’d say just look up a photo timeline of the events, the lynching and burnings happened days before the tanks rolled in. Im not gonna post the images here.
deleted by creator
less controversial
The United States Strategic Bombing Survey determined the atomic bombings were unnecessary and did next to nothing to speed the end of the war. It also had critical comments about the firebombings of Axis civilian centers.
The fact that there is no widespread controversy about these events in the U.S. is not the argument you think it is. There is also no widespread controversy about the June 4th incident, anyway, despite western organizations like the Columbia Journalism Review thoroughly discrediting the sensational details of the U.S. story.
Counter point, the USA doesn’t view any of those other countries governments with the same level of antagonism or as much of a political/economic threat as China.
Constantly bringing up Tienanmen Square is a way for the powers that be to keep reminding us USA citizenry that we are supposed to view China as bad. Its the shiny jingling keys to distract us from looking inward at our own government.
We aren’t supposed to think about it, we aren’t supposed to learn the historical sequence of event that lead to that incident, we definitely aren’t supposed to acknowledge that the event took place decades ago and we haven’t see a “Tienanmen Square massacre” every few months since the one in 1989.
And its a pretty low cost propaganda campaign to boot.
Look, I really think it’s just trolling. It’s a way to stick it to the government. People who post about Tiananmen Square are imagining some short, angry, middle-aged and balding party official with high blood pressure exasperatedly trying to censor/lecture the fucking internet, and only because they can’t send police to their door or mail a citation or whatever. If only gets reposted so much because it allegedly pisses the party off so much and they supposedly try so hard to take down copypasta about it. If it didn’t get a reaction, nobody would care. It’s a bit like the Streisand effect in that regard.
deleted by creator
Because I don’t actually know if that’s a meme or if the Chinese Communist party really is this insane and high strung that they think they’re going to fight the Streisand effect and win.
deleted by creator
Tbf, it’s well known that the CPC does censor their citizens’ internet access. If the US has glowies on virtually every social platform, it’s really not that much of a stretch to think that China has them, too.
deleted by creator
i have a somewhat reputable source here, do you think if you did watch it or engage with it, it changes your view in anyway?
it’s from cbs news: https://www.cbsnews.com/video/tank-man-photographer-reflects-on-30-years-since-tiananmen-square/
I watched the video, can I ask which view you were intending to have challenged?
Because I more or less agree with the photographer that the Chinese govt should probably just move on, the only reason anybody cares anymore is because it gets a reaction. They’re feeding the trolls by reacting. If they don’t want to deal with it, the best thing to do is to achieve some level of acceptance and stop giving it the time of day, imo. I think that’s internet 101 for anyone, really.
Pretty sure the Chinese government and people that have moved on, it’s people in the West who haven’t. It’s not a Streisand effect so much as it is an obsession for these people. No one is trying to cover up the event, there’s just a very vocal group of people who remind us of the event and spread misinformation about it every year.
Well, it costs you guys nothing to ignore them, then. Eventually, it’ll get old and the circle jerk will run out of steam. Do not feed the trolls.
You’re them
I’m sure some are just trolling, but I hear a lot of this spoken earnestly offline.
I think you’re definitely right about the posts getting attention. Regardless of negative attention, I think the positive interactions will keep them coming in every year.
3/3 terrible comments from federated instances so far.
Most of it is just successful propaganda. Most people are not media literate and don’t read and so are easily misled. You can provide them with information and many will change their views.
But many also will not change their views. They will start throwing a tantrum instead. Sometimes the tantrum is external and you can see how upset they are. Sometimes it’s internal and the only thing you can observe is how absurd and defensive their claims become.
These are the liberals who have invested some of their personal identity into being a “good person” that cares about “human rights”, both of which are now, in their minds, inextricable from “Western democracy” and its propaganda machine. Through their mental transitive property, being a good person means believing and repeating the “China bad” narratives they have been provided by the US State Department and associated and right wing think tanks, all laundered through a willing capitalist press and literal entertainment media that they treat like gospel.
When you contradict this false narrative, they don’t accept it and they are not humbled by the facts. They desperately seek out confirmation of their beliefs. It doesn’t even have to be about the exact topic you’re discussing. They’ll cling to anything “China bad”, revealing that they didn’t care avout the actual subject at all, just the thesis of who they’re told is the official Boogeyman or lesser. And they will have no trouble confirming that belief system whatsoever, as there are always many stories, some of them even true or partially true, that have been hyped up and promoted about the designated enemy via the government and media propaganda apparatus. You can repeat this process several times in a single conversation, with a liberal changing the subject over and over again, and they don’t even notice because they have also been taught that political discussions happen in bad faith. They’re a fight between competitors, not an opportunity for learning and self-criticism.
So, yes you are correct it’s very Western chauvinist. Even accepting the false narrative, their own countries do far worse on a regular basis and even more recently but liberals don’t do a yearly commemoration of the War on the Iraqi people, The War on Afghani people, the constant and deliberate economic violence (even just homelessness) that takes far more lives, the prison system, the suppression of George Floyd protests and liberal betrayals thereof, the unconditional US support for genocidal Israeli settler colonialism (you can even pick from 10+ events just in the last decade to commemorate), etc etc.
At the same time, it is an even more fundamental inability to think that has been ingrained into liberals by a very successful propaganda apparatus. I cannot stress enough that they literally don’t know how to sit and listen to and process contradiction of their own beliefs. They cannot handle it. The only tool in their toolbox is to act like babies and they think it’s the smart and right thing to do. This is something they have learned, it’s not inborn, and it can be changed, but it requires a dedicated struggle and a competing set of narratives that are resilient to censorship.
Hilariously, once you start getting too successful at contradicting Western chauvinist claims on online platforms, you have marked you and your community for a good banning - most of the platforms work closely with government agencies, lobbying groups, advertisers associated with these topics, etc etc. This is why irl work in an organization is just as important as having correct narratives more generally. Direct human-to-human communication is more difficult and expensive to censor and there is a multiplier effect to taking action in unison.
It’s because “Tiananmen Square” has become a ritual stripped of all its meaning and has just become a way to say lol china bad
Absolutely.
yeah, it’s not like politicians or rightists in USA hate killing protesters or using heavy force against protesters…they’re projecting
Dang libs are flooding already
One question, about something that I always found strange, why are most of the photos of this event in black and white, given that it took place in the 80s?
My Paranoia: It makes the event seem like it happened much farther in the past than it really was. Being reminded that this happened in 1989 but my “feeling” of this was that it happened in the 60’s or 70’s before I was born instead of almost 10 years after.
My Reason: The photos might have been developed quickly in a darkroom and then photocopied and sent express mail to newspapers, digital cameras and the internet as we know it today in 2024 didn’t exist yet. (This hurts my brain to be reminded of.) Photographers maybe didn’t want to give up their “original” color prints if they didn’t have to.
Could be the BBC filter.
I think it mostly depends on the source of the photos (who was taking it and what film they were using), but that’s just a guess. I’ve seen plenty of both b&w and color.
