Too many people here just blindly hating on Bernie and nitpicking how “Stalinism is technically incorrect”. Where’s the Trump hate? Bring some of that shit out. I’ll start.
Fuck Trump, MAGA, and their entire cult of personality.
protip: most of the bernie haters are forum sliders. Mods are even less likely here to do anything about it than on reddit.
Lemmy should be a place Bernie’s policies are celebrated, but due to shills, bots, bad actors and just trolls, every post about him will be brigaded and turned into a shitshow
Lemmy is complicit in our march towards fascism and their lack of action is telling of their motivations
Because turbo libbing is not the solution to defeating Trump. It is similar to saying Israel has the right to defend itself before each statement. Bernie is actively antagonizing commies by repeating US imperialist propaganda and applying it to someone he does not like.
Until? Communists are always among the first line to fight an oppressive government, if for no other reason than that they’re always among the first targets
Funny you say that, because every communist I’ve spent significant time with, but one in particular, sits behind a keyboard proselytizing other people.
So when Stalin collaborated with Nazis to kill and chase away my relatives from what is now Ukraine that was imperialist propaganda? Why did so many of my ancestors flee Russia at that time?
Cool story, but the vast majority of jewish people fleeing Ukraine during Stalin’s time were fleeing from Nazis not Soviets, so either your relatives were lying about being Jewish or lying about why they ran, maybe kulaks? Or you’re lying about your relatives, or maybe you’re just too stupid to remember the details and are filling in the blanks with random propaganda you heard, definitely bullshit of one flavor or another though
Sorry friend, also lost most of my family to communists who then gave the houses and business to officers family. Thankfully the son burned them alive along with the house.
Death to ocupants.
You mean the peace treaty he signed with Hitler to stall for time and build weapons after France and Britain refused to join forces with him to fight Hitler.
Have you considered asking yourself why France and Britain refused?
It is quite astounding to blame Stalin, the guy who basically fought Hitler all by himself, for the Holocaust.
Stalin’s actions killed 7-20 million people, intellectuals, minorities, and poor people. At least a million of which were deliberate deaths. People who defend that for political expedience are unquestionably misinformed or evil, take your pick. My family was fleeing for their lives.
I am all for some form of socialism, defending evil people is not how you get it.
Really telling on yourself that you consider undocumented immigrants morally equivalent to literal Nazi soldiers killed in combat by the people they were invading
Trusting anything the US has to say about it’s enemies is always a mistake, and given how well documented our history of fabricating justifications for our foreign policy is it’s an extremely stupid one
My Jewish grandparents on multiple sides were told to flee or die by Stalin’s drooling simps. My primary source is many of my great grandparents and the thousands of others that fled Russia at the barrel of a gun. Talk to any reputable Russian historian in the last 50 years and some figure in the many millions is going to come up. We have endless first hand accounts and mountains of historical evidence. To deny this history is like being a Holocaust denier. What exactly is your goal here?
Cool story, unfortunately for you some shit that allegedly happened to your grandparents proves absolutely nothing, and the historians considered reputable on the topic by western powers have been caught making shit up more than once. Trusting what the US has to say about its enemies is always a bad decision, you might be stupid enough to do it but I’m not.
And lol@ your holocaust denial comparison, we’ve got a shitload of hard evidence for it and fuck all to support your story
So if both first hand accounts and peer reviewed research mean nothing to you what barrier needs to be crossed to provide proof? Or is anything you haven’t already predetermined to be true automatically “western propaganda”. Also, what motivation would fleeing refugees have to lie about what made them flee Russia? Why would that supposed lie persist long after a perceived benefit through to their descendents?
Wikipedia is a better source than most of what you can find on the internet these days. Its articles provide ample sources that you can check if you like. I’d say Wikipedia is one of the best things the current internet has. But if you don’t like it perhaps you would prefer conservapedia.
Wikipedia is a bastion of imperialist propaganda. Until recently it claimed that Israel fought a defensive war in 1967 and did a “preemptive attack”. Anyone who actually studied its history knows how blatantly wrong those lies are.
Wikipedia is great for science but awful for anything politics related. Especially if it opposes the Western hegemony. The literal CIA propaganda outlet Radio Free Asia is somehow a “credible source” which they frequently cite whenever they need lies about anything opposing the empire.
Incredibly wrong, I had the pleasure of correcting someone else earlier today who posted an excerpt of a wikipedia article regarding financial aid to Palestine as a source, the sole cited source of which was a Times of Israel article which contained no substantiating evidence whatsoever. The only things wikipedia can be trusted to reliably get right are basic scientific articles, anything remotely politically or culturally controversial will be skewed to fit one agenda or another. If the sources for the wiki article are any good then post them directly instead of referring to them secondhand through wikipedia, otherwise you’re just knowingly outsourcing a lie. And lol @ suggesting that any criticism of wikipedia must be from a conservative, swing and a miss kiddo.
We’re not all from the US, but yes all the western block got anti-Ussr colored info. Still there is little you can find that can make a critical mind see Stalin as anything but a dictator. There are things you can admire in Marx, Trotsky and even Lenin, but if you cannot see how Stalin hijacked the revolution to make his own autocratic empire that while somewhat communism flavored, was structurally not that different of a fascist state, then you are willfully blind. The leader worship, the paranoia, the constant surveillance, those have no place in a communist society.
It is those aspects precisely that make Sanders equate the republicans to stalinists. I think the comparison is apt.
Stalin did massively advance Russian science and industrialization. But he did so at a massive human toll. Also his role in fighting Hitler is so minimized that people think he colluded with Hitler when the USSR basically defeated Hitler by themselves at Stalingrad and America swooped in afterwards.
The USSR did the greater part in defeating nazi Germany, seriously nobody who knows a thing about the fall of the 3rd Reich could deny that. They did so at a huge cost in soldiers and material. This is something that the world should thank the people of the USSR for, their sacrifice was terrible. However it was not Stalin defeating the nazi’s single handedly. His troops and officers did, nor did Stalin do this out of the goodness of his heart or through personal heroics. It was a fight for survival.
Historians exist outside of the US, though. We have decades and decades of non-US, non communist-scare historical research to know what the USSR and Stalin did.
If you don’t want to recognise the errors of the past, you will repeat them. If the most you can do is aim for Stalin’s USSR but 2025 version, then you’re as much an enemy of the people than capitalists are.
red scares have been a global phenomena, not one isolated to the US. Pointless red baiting in response to what Trump being a fascist is about what I’ve come to expect from Bernie, the guy who can’t call it a genocide.
Quite frankly, I think that the voters who would be put off by Bernie stating that MAGA and support for Stalin share similarities are both worthless and minuscule.
Too many people here just blindly hating on Bernie and nitpicking how “Stalinism is technically incorrect”. Where’s the Trump hate? Bring some of that shit out. I’ll start.
Fuck Trump, MAGA, and their entire cult of personality.
protip: most of the bernie haters are forum sliders. Mods are even less likely here to do anything about it than on reddit.
Lemmy should be a place Bernie’s policies are celebrated, but due to shills, bots, bad actors and just trolls, every post about him will be brigaded and turned into a shitshow
Lemmy is complicit in our march towards fascism and their lack of action is telling of their motivations
Because turbo libbing is not the solution to defeating Trump. It is similar to saying Israel has the right to defend itself before each statement. Bernie is actively antagonizing commies by repeating US imperialist propaganda and applying it to someone he does not like.
Stalinism isn’t actual leftist politics. It’s sycophantic moronery, just as Bernie used it.
Let’s hope he keeps doing it. Unless commies are out there fighting ICE with fire they can go get fucked.
Until? Communists are always among the first line to fight an oppressive government, if for no other reason than that they’re always among the first targets
Funny you say that, because every communist I’ve spent significant time with, but one in particular, sits behind a keyboard proselytizing other people.
Sample size of one, source extremely questionable
So when Stalin collaborated with Nazis to kill and chase away my relatives from what is now Ukraine that was imperialist propaganda? Why did so many of my ancestors flee Russia at that time?
Your ancestors probably fled because they were nazi collaborators, just like the ukrainians marching with nazi emblems right now
My ancestors were Jewish you psycho
Cool story, but the vast majority of jewish people fleeing Ukraine during Stalin’s time were fleeing from Nazis not Soviets, so either your relatives were lying about being Jewish or lying about why they ran, maybe kulaks? Or you’re lying about your relatives, or maybe you’re just too stupid to remember the details and are filling in the blanks with random propaganda you heard, definitely bullshit of one flavor or another though
Sorry friend, also lost most of my family to communists who then gave the houses and business to officers family. Thankfully the son burned them alive along with the house. Death to ocupants.
Cool story
You mean the peace treaty he signed with Hitler to stall for time and build weapons after France and Britain refused to join forces with him to fight Hitler.
Have you considered asking yourself why France and Britain refused?
It is quite astounding to blame Stalin, the guy who basically fought Hitler all by himself, for the Holocaust.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin
Stalin’s actions killed 7-20 million people, intellectuals, minorities, and poor people. At least a million of which were deliberate deaths. People who defend that for political expedience are unquestionably misinformed or evil, take your pick. My family was fleeing for their lives.
I am all for some form of socialism, defending evil people is not how you get it.
Damn, that’s a suspiciously wide range.
Does it include Nazi soldiers killed by the red army in world war two? (Spoilers: yes)
This person is mad about dead Nazis
My ancestors were Jewish, they were chased out under threat of death. Absolutely repugnant to claim I’m mad about dead Nazis in that context.
Seems like it’s more repugnant for you to be condemning the USSR for killing Nazis
If that is true then trump is based and ice is deporting illegal criminals and rapists.
Youre a literal palette swapped nazi and deserve the same fate as nazis.
Really telling on yourself that you consider undocumented immigrants morally equivalent to literal Nazi soldiers killed in combat by the people they were invading
Trusting anything the US has to say about it’s enemies is always a mistake, and given how well documented our history of fabricating justifications for our foreign policy is it’s an extremely stupid one
Wikipedia isn’t a source
My Jewish grandparents on multiple sides were told to flee or die by Stalin’s drooling simps. My primary source is many of my great grandparents and the thousands of others that fled Russia at the barrel of a gun. Talk to any reputable Russian historian in the last 50 years and some figure in the many millions is going to come up. We have endless first hand accounts and mountains of historical evidence. To deny this history is like being a Holocaust denier. What exactly is your goal here?
Cool story, unfortunately for you some shit that allegedly happened to your grandparents proves absolutely nothing, and the historians considered reputable on the topic by western powers have been caught making shit up more than once. Trusting what the US has to say about its enemies is always a bad decision, you might be stupid enough to do it but I’m not.
And lol@ your holocaust denial comparison, we’ve got a shitload of hard evidence for it and fuck all to support your story
So if both first hand accounts and peer reviewed research mean nothing to you what barrier needs to be crossed to provide proof? Or is anything you haven’t already predetermined to be true automatically “western propaganda”. Also, what motivation would fleeing refugees have to lie about what made them flee Russia? Why would that supposed lie persist long after a perceived benefit through to their descendents?
Wikipedia is a better source than most of what you can find on the internet these days. Its articles provide ample sources that you can check if you like. I’d say Wikipedia is one of the best things the current internet has. But if you don’t like it perhaps you would prefer conservapedia.
Wikipedia is a bastion of imperialist propaganda. Until recently it claimed that Israel fought a defensive war in 1967 and did a “preemptive attack”. Anyone who actually studied its history knows how blatantly wrong those lies are.
Wikipedia is great for science but awful for anything politics related. Especially if it opposes the Western hegemony. The literal CIA propaganda outlet Radio Free Asia is somehow a “credible source” which they frequently cite whenever they need lies about anything opposing the empire.
Incredibly wrong, I had the pleasure of correcting someone else earlier today who posted an excerpt of a wikipedia article regarding financial aid to Palestine as a source, the sole cited source of which was a Times of Israel article which contained no substantiating evidence whatsoever. The only things wikipedia can be trusted to reliably get right are basic scientific articles, anything remotely politically or culturally controversial will be skewed to fit one agenda or another. If the sources for the wiki article are any good then post them directly instead of referring to them secondhand through wikipedia, otherwise you’re just knowingly outsourcing a lie. And lol @ suggesting that any criticism of wikipedia must be from a conservative, swing and a miss kiddo.
If you feel antagonised when someone criticise Stalin then that’s a you problem though.
Staline’s Image Cult isn’t “imperialist propaganda”
Americans using their global opponents which they demonize in all their media as insults is an all too classic trope.
I am sure we are all extremely well informed on Stalin because of our unbiased media.
We’re not all from the US, but yes all the western block got anti-Ussr colored info. Still there is little you can find that can make a critical mind see Stalin as anything but a dictator. There are things you can admire in Marx, Trotsky and even Lenin, but if you cannot see how Stalin hijacked the revolution to make his own autocratic empire that while somewhat communism flavored, was structurally not that different of a fascist state, then you are willfully blind. The leader worship, the paranoia, the constant surveillance, those have no place in a communist society.
It is those aspects precisely that make Sanders equate the republicans to stalinists. I think the comparison is apt.
Stalin did massively advance Russian science and industrialization. But he did so at a massive human toll. Also his role in fighting Hitler is so minimized that people think he colluded with Hitler when the USSR basically defeated Hitler by themselves at Stalingrad and America swooped in afterwards.
The USSR did the greater part in defeating nazi Germany, seriously nobody who knows a thing about the fall of the 3rd Reich could deny that. They did so at a huge cost in soldiers and material. This is something that the world should thank the people of the USSR for, their sacrifice was terrible. However it was not Stalin defeating the nazi’s single handedly. His troops and officers did, nor did Stalin do this out of the goodness of his heart or through personal heroics. It was a fight for survival.
The Nazis lost at Stalingrad. Only after their defeat and being pushed back, America swooped in and took over Europe before Russia could.
Then they saved the Nazi scientists and officers and gave them top positions in NATO.
So did hitler. Only people praising hitler are same ones praising stalin.
Hitler did play a big role in killing Hitler. That much is true.
No, he really didn’t
Yes, the US has red scare propaganda.
Historians exist outside of the US, though. We have decades and decades of non-US, non communist-scare historical research to know what the USSR and Stalin did. If you don’t want to recognise the errors of the past, you will repeat them. If the most you can do is aim for Stalin’s USSR but 2025 version, then you’re as much an enemy of the people than capitalists are.
Oh? What are you referring to?
red scares have been a global phenomena, not one isolated to the US. Pointless red baiting in response to what Trump being a fascist is about what I’ve come to expect from Bernie, the guy who can’t call it a genocide.
Declassified CIA documents from the time even say that Stalin was not so much of an autocrat as commonly mythologized.
Quite frankly, I think that the voters who would be put off by Bernie stating that MAGA and support for Stalin share similarities are both worthless and minuscule.
You have to make bridge statements in order to reach a broader audience