Earlier, after review, we blocked and removed several communities that were providing assistance to access copyrighted/pirated material, which is currently not allowed per Rule #1 of our Code of Conduct. The communities that were removed due to this decision were:
We took this action to protect lemmy.world, lemmy.world’s users, and lemmy.world staff as the material posted in those communities could be problematic for us, because of potential legal issues around copyrighted material and services that provide access to or assistance in obtaining it.
This decision is about liability and does not mean we are otherwise hostile to any of these communities or their users. As the Lemmyverse grows and instances get big, precautions may happen. We will keep monitoring the situation closely, and if in the future we deem it safe, we would gladly reallow these communities.
The discussions that have happened in various threads on Lemmy make it very clear that removing the communites before we announced our intent to remove them is not the level of transparency the community expects, and that as stewards of this community we need to be extremely transparent before we do this again in the future as well as make sure that we get feedback around what the planned changes are, because lemmy.world is yours as much as it is ours.
Even if we look past the issue that all of this was in response to a 10h troll account, there was no cease and desist, no threat of a lawsuit, nothing credible AT ALL.
Let’s ignore all of that and say there was, it still means this instance is completely ill equipped to provide any sort of resistance, to something trivial.
It’s like it’s hosted in the middle of Illinois, by John Frank, at 3125 maple lane… Zero layers of protection.
That is awful and means no meaningful discussion can ever happen here. Nevermind piracy, what if people want to criticize the government? Or public figures?
If this instance can’t fight a fake troll it can’t fight and protect anything.
Which means we need to pool resources and fund instances that can and will fight back.
And yes that means fundraising to build up a defense fund and hosting outside the US etc.
Coward shit.
Boo. Fie and Shame upon your house.
Shame! Shame! Shame!
Please make announcements on lemmy instead of exclusively on discord moving forward. That is the biggest issue here, the lack of public transparency. Such a decision affects all instances, not just lemmy.world and making it publicly known is important
This was a misunderstanding from one of the team members. It has since been discussed and will not happen again. Lemmy.World and this announcement community is our primary platform,
Speaking of removed communities, can an admin respond to this please: https://lemmy.world/post/3165787
Aged like milk.
Just another misunderstanding bro
Are we raising posts from the dead?
Thank you. It is appreciated.
Misunderstanding eh?
Yeah. You misunderstood that they are liars.
Thank you for this
What part is illegal? Are they sharing files on that instance and your instance re-hosts it?
From my understanding, discussions are legal, guides are legal, tips are legal, but actual files (aka “copyrighted content”) is illegal. There are no files shared there, links at maximum, but institutions should be after those content-sharing websites, not forums.
I am against this decision and I am happy that I am not part of admins team.
Keep in mind, The Pirate Bay is “technically” not breaking any laws… how has that been going for them? You don’t have to break laws to get in trouble if you are pissing off rich people. They’ll find something, anything, to nail you on. It’s totally ok for random normal people to not want to be “heroes” to a bunch of other random people they don’t know. Heroes attract villains, and instability. And while it’s just starting to get off the ground, lemmy doesn’t need villains or instability.
Let the smaller, less visible servers do the shady but “totally technically legal” stuff. Big servers with big targets on their forehead need to be stable and drama-free.
The Pirate Bay is “technically” not breaking any laws
It does, it holds torrent files which usually “holds and shares” a copy right infringing content. While mentioning that website isn’t gonna bring any problems, linking the actual torrent file or link to that might bring problems.
It doesn’t hold any torrent files for over a decade now. It’s all magnet links which know nothing about the content.
People are terrified of the possibility of litigation to the point that they won’t even host conversations about piracy on fringe community subs for fear of reprisal.
Its just the state of play for everyone on the Internet. Terrorized by the spectre of a frivolous lawsuit.
Looks like we finally found the part of lemmy.ml that this site is comfortable with blocking.
And still people are crying about this.
You can literally change to another instance. That’s the entire point of the Fediverse. If you don’t like a decision the admin has taken, you can move elsewhere.
The entitlement of some people these days is ridiculous.
The fuck are you talking about? Most sane people go “Damn, this thing I like is now doing a thing I don’t like. I’m going to let them know and hopefully enough people agree to change it back.” but people like you with full fedi brain go “Whelp, this instance has a mod whose name contains two letter U’s in it, better change instances.”
You’ve watered down what the word entitlement so much I’m starting to doubt you ever knew what it meant. Entitlement is demanding your preference be catered to for the sake of it, community is giving feedback on what makes sense and what doesn’t. A general, all-purpose instance shouldn’t ban content except in extreme cases like they themselves state, which is illegal content. Piracy is not illegal, it’s ambiguous. Communities about piracy are not illegal and are infinitely more legal than the act of piracy.
This action makes very little sense when looked at sensibly and rather than hopscotch around instances like your mom in an all-male sorority I think we should give feedback to make an instance better before discarding it carelessly like a used condom in that same all-male sorority.
Bro the fuck YOU talking about?
What would convince anyone to blindly accept liability for 100k users on a volunteer basis? If you owned the servers and your name was on the line, would you feel comfortable hosting “ambiguous” (your words) material?
Your tone echos the people that yell at FOSS devs on GitHub. You are the entitled one. It’s hilarious, you think you’re entitled to random people accepting liability on your behalf.
Friendly reminder 4chan has an entire board dedicated to posting magnet links to torrents as well as guides on how to use them in rare cases. On the clearnet. For everyone. If you don’t want to be a magnet link directory, fine, that’s an understandable position. Ban communities that allow magnet links. It is sheer paranoia to ban a community that merely engages in the discussion of piracy and related content and banning swaths of content on a general purpose instance defeats the entire point of ‘general purpose’.
But again, telling on yourself not knowing what the fuck entitled means. You’re seven layers of stupid treating piracy like it’s fucking CP.
Ratio.
Also lol at using 4chan as your example of how to run a site
Lemmy world clearly stated that they were not a “free speech” zone, that they would have rules, you joined anyway
This kid just said Ratio. Bro go back to your Twitter echo chamber, I’ve never given a shit if my opinions are popular, I care if they’re right.
By all means, be the most popular idiot you can be. None of what I’m advocating for is ‘free speech’ you lemming, it’s the contradiction of a ‘general purpose’ instance to ban content out of preference and masquerade it as legal liability. It’s not illegal (in the United States) so if it’s based there (which it likely is but I’m open to being wrong), it doesn’t break the rules even though they claim it is and does. So either they’re lying or are misinformed and according to Hanlon’s razor, one should never attribute to malice what can be sufficiently be explained by stupidity.
So to recap It’s not illegal. It shouldn’t be banned. I hope the admins change their mind. Take your ratio and hang it up on the fridge for your mom.
I moderate/founded six communities hosted on lemmy.world. There isn’t a way for me to transfer those to a different instance.
Maybe you should have read the rules amigo.
I did and the db0 community doesn’t directly link to pirated content, so it violates none of the rules on this instance.
Why would you need to? People from any instance can subscribe to those communities. Use your lemmy.world account to mod the communities and browse with another.
It’s a headache to constantly have to switch between accounts to check reports and moderate. I also don’t want to keep the communities on an instance hell-bent on blocking/defederating from other communities/instances all the time.
If you don’t like it host your own instance with all the blackjack, hookers, and liability you want; instead of bitching about what toys someone else has in their sandbox.
It seems like it would be difficult to keep track of all the instances that have/haven’t banned the communities/instances you’re interested in.
Like if someone wanted to move to an instance that hasn’t banned these piracy communities, how would they even know where to look?
EDIT: I found this:
Awesome Lemmy Instances has a list where you can see how many instances block/are blocked by each other https://github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instances
You get it. This is why Reddit isn’t going anywhere and people are just downloading the official App or patching Infinity or Sync with ReVanced Manager. I’m an advanced user, FOSS advocate, die-hard Linux user and one that gets 90% of their mobile apps through F-Droid. I love the idea of the Fediverse, but I am struggling to use it for my own needs without all the defederation stuff getting in the way and becoming very hard to get around. If someone like me is having problems, then it absolutely isn’t ready for prime time.
In fact, I still use Reddit through a patched 3P client because my non-techie and non-political communities aren’t moving at all. As an example of something more mainstream: I’m a heavy Stardew Valley player. The Stardew community on Lemmy is dead, but on Reddit it’s very much alive and new posts gets thousands of upvotes and hundreds of comments daily. What seems to be alive here is the kind of content tech-savvy people are more likely to consume: tech, politics, news, that’s it.
It reminds me of the Linux desktop back in 2017. It was promising and it was beginning to get more interest and traction, but still when you tried using it was eh. Almost there. But not quite there. My laptop would boot and run my Firefox and development tools fine, but then the audio codec would die and display “Dummy output” until I rebooted (in the best case, I had to reinstall Ubuntu in 2 cases where audio permanently died), or my Bluetooth earbuds would stop working properly or at all seemingly at random, and when I woke my laptop up from sleep there was a 1/5 chance that GDM would hard lock and force to me to SIGKILL my entire GNOME session if not SysRQ reboot to gain back control - and this was on Ubuntu-certified SKU running a certified ISO in a state that I had left so default desperate to see it working properly that I had not even changed the default wallpaper. There would always be something a touch too inconvenient. For me, it was audio and sleep not working properly. So you would eventually image your laptop back to Windows and go with it, while knowing in the back of your mind you shouldn’t, but you want to actually get stuff done and play your games, which actually launch without Wine crashes or GPU driver errors - this is how I feel using Reddit now. Linux has matured way past this point and it can now act as a main system no problem and be a reliable performer with a scope that covers 90% of use cases well, the dream was achieved. I hope the Fediverse will follow a similar curve with time, but after months of trying the Fediverse out a way or another it still can’t stop reminding me of that older stage of Linux: promising and growing - but not quite there, and unreasonable to use exclusively.
good thing I followed the advice not to use lemmy.world lol
Which instance is recommended?
not entirely sure, I’m still new here. I haven’t had any problems with lemm.ee
there’s probably a thread in [email protected] where people discuss the pros and cons of different instances
Thank you. I hope somebody can chime in and give me the instance to use.
Indeed
I’m guessing the idea here is to eventually sell out to a corporate operator
I mean this was why I left. Piracy discussion is my canary for the internet coal mine. If it dies I leave. You guys killed it so I left. It’s your server and your business but the canary was dead so I got out.
You’re not allowed to discuss piracy. You wouldn’t talk about stealing a car would you?
Delete this.
You are allowed to discuss piracy. You aren’t allowed to facilitate piracy (I.e. providing links to pirated content). It is illegal in the country where this instance is hosted.
That community never linked to pirated content, you goose
Except for the times when it did, shown above complete with screenshots.
You mean that screenshot showing the one instance of it ever happening? It broke the rules of the community and was taken down.
Pathetic
Reading all these comments it’s clear that a lot of people have unrealistic ideas regarding what Lemmy and the Fediverse are supposed to be (or maybe it’s me with weird ideas).
The Fediverse is just a bunch of apps that can all communicate with each other through a shared protocol. There is no requirement for them to be free speech platforms or host everything. The whole purpose of defederation supports the idea that instances are free to associate or disassociate with whichever instances they want. Furthermore, nearly every guide I read on joining Lemmy state that you should choose instances to join based on shared ideals/beliefs.
For everyone saying “I’m leaving lemmy.world” I say “Good. That’s what you’re supposed to do.” When the instance you join no longer aligns with what you want, you go to another instance and then you’ll be back to viewing all the communities you want to see. That is what the Fediverse is all about and how it’s designed.
If people leave to run their own piracy lemmy depending on where they host it they will probably get raided and have no lemmy.
The commenter obviously don’t understand that at lemmy.world it hosts copies of content outside its instance which is why you block communities if you don’t defend the whole instance.
If people leave to run their own piracy lemmy depending on where they host it they will probably get raided and have no lemmy.
The “FAFO” approach
I can host an instance. I don’t care about “raiding”. If you get raided, it means you have not properly separated your online and real identities.
Well, for starters if we looked at lemmy.dbzer0.com we can see the domain is held by tucows which is based in Canada which are a copyright protection friendly country. Sure the server is hosted on njalla.net which is based in Sweden. How hard do you think it would be for the FBI to gain the info they needed to:
- Figure out who pays the bills and owns the server?
- Get a copy of the server data for analysis?
The only way to resist this would be to host your instance on the darknet with good sec even then that is not 100%.
Again, if you properly separate your identities, than the answer to both questions is simply impossible, since you are not the one figuring on the bill. The only thing they can achieve is link you to some IP behind 2 VPNs and 5 proxies, good luck to them if they want to dig through all that while avoiding you noticing and simply deleting all data from one of them making you completely separated from any illegal activity.
I think the issue is that .world has put itself forward as some sort of super lemmy. The landing page for new users. I agree people should move but also that we do kinda need a superish lemmy, but one that maybe has all the good and bad. Would it make any sense to have an instance that has no communities of its own but also has all the instances?
Honestly, I feel like self-hosting a single user instance is the ideal way to use the Fediverse. It gives you full control over what you see. However, that would require self hosting to become so simple anyone can do it.
I don’t think it is so difficult but I also think that would lessen the depth and breadth of lemmy as a whole by limiting full participation behind self hosting.
I think the issue is that .world has put itself forward as some sort of super lemmy.
Citation needed. All the admins of lemmy world ever purported to do was host a well-run general-purpose (aka not topic-oriented) lemmy instance. It was and remains that, and part of being a well-run general purpose instance is managing legal risk when a small subset of the community generates an outsized portion of it.
Being well run meant that they scaled up and remained operational during the first reddit migration wave. People appreciated that, but continuing to function does not amount to a declaration of being a super lemmy.
World also has kept signups open through good times, and more recently bad. Other instances at various times shut down signups or put irritating steps and purity tests along the way. Keeping signups open is a pretty bare-minimum bar for running a service though, it is again not a declaration of being a super-lemmy.
Essentially lemmy world just… kept working (until recently when it has done a pretty poor job of that). I dunno where you found a declaration that lemmy world is a super-lemmy, but it’s not coming from the lemmy world admins, it’s likely randos spouting off.
The advertisement and push they did on sites like reddit and their listing on join-lemmy.org (when they where still listed) made them the biggest instance. And with the name Lemmy.world they did nothing to dissuade anyone from thinking that. If this was all randos pushing the instance then boo to them, but I also saw nothing from .world not claiming to be the bigger instance(super lemmy)
… advertisement and push they did on sites like reddit…
The lemmy world admins advertised on Reddit? Can you link an example?
… their listing on join-lemmy.org…
Until recently EVERY lemmy instance was listed on join-lemmy.
And with the name Lemmy.world they did nothing to dissuade anyone from thinking that.
They run a family of servers under the world tld, including at least mastodon, lemmy, and calckey. They’re all named similarly.
I also saw nothing from .world not claiming to be the bigger instance(super lemmy)
They ARE the biggest instance, but that happened organically. It’s not based on any marketing claims from the admin team about being a flagship/super/mega/whatever instance. People just joined, and the admins didn’t stop them (nor should they). It’s not a conspiracy to take over lemmy. It’s just an instance that… until recently… happened to work pretty well when some were struggling.
Sure but currently switching is a huge pain in the ass as you cant really take over your posts not to mention the migration of your communities which is currently impossible. So all the people saying somwthing like “just switch to another instance” tend to forget that this isn’t really possible at the moment.
Do you have to take your posts with you? I’ve seen people mention this before but I don’t understand why that’s such a big deal. I do agree about the communities though and feel that there needs to be an easy way to export your subscriptions so they can be imported on another account.
I like to have a history of my posts linked directly to my account. It’s what I contributed to the community and I’d like it to be a part of my profile.
While I’m not ethically opposed pirating, I understand and would probably do the same for a server I was hosting. Anybody remember Kim Dotcom’s mansion raid?
What I do not understand is blocking a community surrounding magic mushrooms… No one is going to prosecute the L.W admins for people discussing shrooms/their use…
Substances are legal/illegal depending on where one lives, just like weed which is apparently perfectly fine to post here, even tho possession is a death sentence in some countries.
It simply doesn’t logically follow that weed, or even alcohol communities are permissible while a shroom community is not.
Banning any content deemed illegal in any country in the world establishes a very dangerous precedence (if that’s the justification here). Free speech/dissenting from the government is illegal in many places in the world.
One thing the community must remember tho, is that you have to operate your server in accordance with the law in which country you’re hosting it (in this case Germany).
I’ll gladly admit I’m not too familiar with German law, but it seems unreasonable to expect government persecution for hosting servers which hosts a shroom discussion community.
Whoa wait wtf, they blocked a mushroom community? I didn’t hear about that
Our new home.
Bwhahahahaha Reddit is more liberated than Lemmy, what a fucking embarrassment.
What’s the line, self-censorship is the first sign an authoritarian has won.
Just use a better instance than .world…
