Can we give this rhetoric a rest? The voting system, the enforced lack of alternatives, hell even really the people who voted for this shit are all much more to blame than people who didn’t vote. Or how about the fact “Multiple Republican-led administrations removed voters from their states’ voter rolls in the lead up to the election”? Or the fact you don’t even vote on the week-end, which is what pretty much all civilised countries do, to give more chances to more people especially poor people to get to the voting stations?
On top of that, how can you know what people who didn’t vote would have voted for? Some of the states with the lowest turnout are one that are historically considered more conservative-leaning (Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, Missisipi, Tennessee). The results could have been “worse” (whatever that means, given the shitshow that is the Electoral College).
Really, it feels like it’s so much easier to blame a subset of people than to confront the fact that, in the US, the majority of the population appears to be for an autocratic asshat who has claimed they wouldn’t need to vote after they vote for him. The US population, as a majority, appear to want this. More people voting may not have changed anything about that.
It’s not surprising that voter turnout is now when you have an unhealthy democracy (because it is a symptom of it). This is a bit like blaming people for eating unhealthily when all that’s available to eat is unhealthy: you’re not wrong that it’s bad for them, but what the fuck are you actually doing do provide better options? So rather than blame those who didn’t vote, for any variety of reasons, get organising. Low turnout is a seed that was planted a long time ago.
Fuck no, no voting protest voters are part of the reason we have this sweeping fascist rule in our country. So no, they don’t get a boo hoo pass on that shit.
90 million registered voters didn’t vote, the most in US history. Please share what you have that points to the protest vote being a small percentage of that 90 million.
I’d love to see hard data, if it exists. Not holding my breath.
You’re assuming the amount of people that signed their little pointless petition is 1:1 with those that actually protest voted because memes told them to.
You are making the claim that it’s an insignificant amount.
Are you making the claim that all 120mn that didn’t vote were protesters?
Likewise, you cannot make the claim that an entire group is something. You need proof to substantiate your positive claim, not the negative. I have given my proof already
But how does voting protect in any way against your supreme court being stuffed with judges who clearly have no problems being completely biased and using the court as a tool for partisan politics?
It doesn’t. You’d need an opposition party that actually fights that crap. That recognises tactics to pervert instituions for what they are and acts accordingly. You’d need different “checks and balances”.
Electoralism breaks down when you don’t have a healthy democracy and public institutions. We can now all see that the USA’s institutions and constitution were not as strong as they were made to be.
Your political system is so fucked up, and yet you insist on blaming the voters.
This obsession with voting as the main form of political participation is IMHO childish and doesn’t do justice to the reality of the world.
You not voting is why the Democrats run shitty candidates. Protest voting does nothing. Primaries have around 10% turn out on average. Not voting is literally the fucking problem.
Not voting doesn’t make their candidates shitty candidates win, Democrats lose when turnout is depressed.
They know this, and they still chose to deliberately depress turnout with another shitty candidate who promised us nothing would change. Their last successful candidate won two terms on promises of hope and change and only 12 years later they’re promising the opposite and delivering nothingburgers.
you just don’t seem to understand basic logic: people protest voted, and yall are now inflicting trump on the world
you had 3 options: protest vote, vote D, vote R
congrats you got R… thats muuuuuuch better. i’m sure when the marines get deployed to your city you can be comforted by the fact that at least you sent the democrats a message!
how’s that going by the way? they listening? is it working? please tell me you at least achieved that! because if they haven’t listened, SHIT you got fascism AND a party that’s in every possible way “meh”
Zohran Mamdani won the NYC primary, so it sure sounds like the voters are paying attention.
Whether or not the party wants to listen is their perogative, so long as they claim to represent us they can rise or fall on the strength of their promises to us and our faith in their willingness to make good on those promises.
“Nothing will fundamentally change” sure isn’t working as well as Obama’s “hope and change”, is it?
Are you today’s explanation? Every time the Dems lose, they go to the center to find voters. If you want them to go left, you have to give them wins first. Right now every time they go left, they lose. Biden gave green energy and build back better. The reward? Lose the house. Harris was going to pretty much continue. What was the answer? Voters said no. Their left policy made the Dems lose.
Every time the Dems lose, they go to the center to find voters.
The center is to the left of where the party was 10 years ago. If the party actually acted like you suggest they are then they wouldn’t have lost to an 80’s villain twice.
If you want them to go left, you have to give them wins first.
Why would they go left if the plan to find a middle ground with Republicans was working?
Right now every time they go left, they lose.
Zohran Mamdani.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Bernie Sanders.
Every time they’ve gone left they’ve won, every time they reject the left they lose.
Hell, even that neoliberal Obama who never kept his campaign promises still at least promised us hope and change and won twice, but now the Democrats can only promise that nothing will change. I guess we can credit them with being honest?
Biden gave green energy and build back better. The reward? Lose the house. Harris was going to pretty much continue. What was the answer?
The answer is that Biden never went left. “Green energy” is a neoliberal plan to replace fossil fuel subsidies with rare earth subsidies while changing nothing about their extraction, manufacturing, or distribution processes and “Build Back Better” never passed.
Always a good sign when you start off with a strawman/ personal attack.
Ok where do we start. Well first off we’re talking national level, not mayoral candidates or safe districts.
So now let’s look at the history. Let’s go through this chronologically.
Bill Clinton: After successive Dem losses Bill figured out “it’s the economy stupid”, aka center policy, not leftist policy that gets you elected. Plus when you run against an incumbent (Bush senior) you generally run from the center. So that’s what he did. And he won.
Gore: After the population hopefully warmed up with Bill Clinton, he stuck his head out left with climate change. And bam he lost the election. Thanks 3rd party protest voters! Aka: The left never shows up.
Obama: So guess what Obama learned? Don’t stick your head out. He ran on broad “hope” and “yes we can” and having energy, hoping the ambiguity would be enough considering Bush’s disastrous wars. And he won.
More on Obama: So he enacted the ACA. That’s great, right? The thanks Obama got for that was to lose the House of Representatives for year 3 and 4. And lose the House of reps again for years 5 and 6. And then lose both the House of reps and the Senate for years 7 and 8. He enacted left policy and: The left never shows up.
Hillary Clinton: So what did Hillary learn from the last 6 years of Obama? She learned that the left never shows up. So she only stuck her head out with a big position to left on the map room to climate change. She basically declared war on climate change. You know that big existential issue that all the leftists care about, right? The big important issue that the left says they want so badly, right? And guess what happened? Bam she lost. Thanks protest non-voters! Aka: The left never shows up.
Biden: Just like Obama learned from Gore, Biden learned from Hillary that you don’t stick your head out left on anything. Not one thing. And he was running against an incumbent, so once again when you do that you run center. And he won.
Biden in office: But he did left things anyway. He did green energy (you’re against green energy?), EVs, drug price control, PACT act, Chips act, etc. And what were the results? Lost the House of Representatives for years 3 and 4. Polls showed him losing the election to Trump. He enacted left policy and: The left didn’t show up for midterms, and was not going to show up for the next election.
Harris: Harris ran on abortion rights, democracy and while she didn’t say it was apparent she’d continue green energy. She relied on the left to show up for their rights and for democracy. They couldn’t even do that. Aka the left never shows up. (Btw Bill Clinton was right, it’s the economy stupid. Trump won on the economy.)
And people are amazed that they don’t run a big left platform? Every time they rely on the left they lose. Every Single Time. And the next guy learns to go to the center to win. Because the center voters actually show up.
So how do you get them to move left? By giving them victories first. Consistent and overwhelming victories. Show them it’s safe to take policy chances. Because right now every time they run on left platforms or enact left policies, they lose. Every. Single. Time.
“Build Back Better” never passed.
Technically correct on one bill BUT missing that most it was passed through different bills. So passed.
Always a good sign when you start off with a strawman/ personal attack.
Right‽ Also, why would you make such an honest admission? It isn’t doing anything to help your argument.
Ok where do we start. Well first off we’re talking national level, not mayoral candidates or safe districts.
Are you trying to tell me that the governor of Rhode Island has more pull than a mayor of America’s biggest metro with 8x as many constituents? This is a supremely weird way to open up your response.
A bunch of nonsense about electoral history, blaming Clinton’s loss on climate change, failing to acknowledge that Gore actually won his election, etc.
Lol.
So how do you get them to move left? By giving them victories first.
I think you should try that plan. Start with Mamdani.
Nope. These people need to feel just as stupid as Trump voters in 2016 who subsequently voted for Biden after seeing the result. Given how many are still defensively showing up to post walls of text every time this is brought up, there’s a lot of work to be done to overcome the counter-messaging.
We should absolutely do what we can to primary feckless centrist Democrats, and to push the party to the left, but that’s not mutually exclusive with getting people to show up and not make the same stupid decision twice. We aren’t going to completely fix our democracy in 2 years to the point that these idiots will be satisfied. We can make headway on making things better, but people need to vote for that to happen.
So to be absolutely clear: if you did not vote, this is what you voted for. That should be upsetting, you should feel bad, and you should make damn sure that you don’t make the same mistake in 2026, 2028, or any other election as long as you live.
I’m not from the US mate. I’m just pointing out pretty obvious issues that maybe are easier to see from the outside.
But saying that if one didn’t vote one voted for this is simply nonsensical. So people who didn’t vote for Biden voted for Biden? Or did they vote for Stein? This is just playing with numbers and wishful thinking, conditioned by a two party system.
Also, I don’t think it really matters, but I have voted in recent national elections to try and stop the shitbirds from getting to power where I can vote. (They got to power.) But I respect those who refuse to vote, or can’t because the system is messed up and biased against them (voting on a Tuesday? How do you accept that shit?). You can’t realistically blame people for not voting if you system doesn’t even properly represent the “none of the above” option. That’s just a messed up voting system.
Also if you think that’s a “wall of text”, I’m slightly concerned.
I won’t feel bad about not voting for Kamala even if I were sent to El Salvador, or marched into a gas chamber. I made peace with that before I voted PSL.
Y’all fundamentally misunderstand us. You think we’re simply misinformed, that we don’t appreciate the threat, that if only we saw the facts of what the Republicans are like, we’d immediately see things your way. What you don’t understand is that we do see the facts, we’re just operating under a different ethical and political framework from you. The point of disagreement is not about the facts on the ground, it’s about the best way to respond to them. So merely pointing to the awful shit the Republicans do has no chance of swaying, well, I can’t speak for everyone, but certainly me, and anyone who thinks like me.
Can we give this rhetoric a rest? The voting system, the enforced lack of alternatives, hell even really the people who voted for this shit are all much more to blame than people who didn’t vote. Or how about the fact “Multiple Republican-led administrations removed voters from their states’ voter rolls in the lead up to the election”? Or the fact you don’t even vote on the week-end, which is what pretty much all civilised countries do, to give more chances to more people especially poor people to get to the voting stations?
On top of that, how can you know what people who didn’t vote would have voted for? Some of the states with the lowest turnout are one that are historically considered more conservative-leaning (Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, Missisipi, Tennessee). The results could have been “worse” (whatever that means, given the shitshow that is the Electoral College).
Really, it feels like it’s so much easier to blame a subset of people than to confront the fact that, in the US, the majority of the population appears to be for an autocratic asshat who has claimed they wouldn’t need to vote after they vote for him. The US population, as a majority, appear to want this. More people voting may not have changed anything about that.
It’s not surprising that voter turnout is now when you have an unhealthy democracy (because it is a symptom of it). This is a bit like blaming people for eating unhealthily when all that’s available to eat is unhealthy: you’re not wrong that it’s bad for them, but what the fuck are you actually doing do provide better options? So rather than blame those who didn’t vote, for any variety of reasons, get organising. Low turnout is a seed that was planted a long time ago.
The people who did not vote for Harris destroyed all chances of ever getting a better candidate.
Fuck no, no voting protest voters are part of the reason we have this sweeping fascist rule in our country. So no, they don’t get a boo hoo pass on that shit.
The reason you have sweeping fascist rule in your country is because you have tonnes of people who are okay with that.
Seriously, you can blame those that didn’t vote as much as you want, but you’re just averting your eyes from the real problem, as far as I can tell.
No voting protest voters are a tiny proportion of the no voters.
90 million registered voters didn’t vote, the most in US history. Please share what you have that points to the protest vote being a small percentage of that 90 million.
I’d love to see hard data, if it exists. Not holding my breath.
66% turnout rate in 2020 64% turnout rate in 2024
So about 8 million less voters. Let’s assume there are all protest voters.
So less than 10% of non voters did so as a protest.
Thank you. 10% is a significant amount.
The bigger piece of the pie is the other 90%.
Statistically, 10% is significant.
That is not a phrase.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncommitted_National_Movement
You’re assuming the amount of people that signed their little pointless petition is 1:1 with those that actually protest voted because memes told them to.
I have evidence of at least 700k protesters.
What evidence do you have?
It’s common knowledge that protest voters didn’t vote. It’s even in the name. You are making the claim that it’s an insignificant amount.
The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. That’s you, buddy.
Are you making the claim that all 120mn that didn’t vote were protesters?
Likewise, you cannot make the claim that an entire group is something. You need proof to substantiate your positive claim, not the negative. I have given my proof already
I don’t often use internet lingo, but the people yelling into the void about “non voters” are 100% doing what the internet deems, a “cope”
Inventing an invisible boogeyman to yell at because things are bad makes them feel better.
Quick edit: it’s frustrating how downvoted you are for being correct, honestly.
Thank you for this :')
And in 12 months’ time, the voting system will allow just one option. Great move, guys… great move.
But how does voting protect in any way against your supreme court being stuffed with judges who clearly have no problems being completely biased and using the court as a tool for partisan politics?
It doesn’t. You’d need an opposition party that actually fights that crap. That recognises tactics to pervert instituions for what they are and acts accordingly. You’d need different “checks and balances”.
Electoralism breaks down when you don’t have a healthy democracy and public institutions. We can now all see that the USA’s institutions and constitution were not as strong as they were made to be.
Your political system is so fucked up, and yet you insist on blaming the voters.
This obsession with voting as the main form of political participation is IMHO childish and doesn’t do justice to the reality of the world.
Nope, got another 3.5 years of reminding protest-non-voters what they voted for.
You are why the Democrats feel safe to run shitty candidates.
You not voting is why the Democrats run shitty candidates. Protest voting does nothing. Primaries have around 10% turn out on average. Not voting is literally the fucking problem.
Not voting doesn’t make their candidates shitty candidates win, Democrats lose when turnout is depressed.
They know this, and they still chose to deliberately depress turnout with another shitty candidate who promised us nothing would change. Their last successful candidate won two terms on promises of hope and change and only 12 years later they’re promising the opposite and delivering nothingburgers.
and you are why the entire world for generations have to deal with the aftermath of another trump presidency
Blaming voters for your candidates’ failure sure is a good way to get more voters, isn’t it?
mine? mate i’m not from your country
you just don’t seem to understand basic logic: people protest voted, and yall are now inflicting trump on the world
you had 3 options: protest vote, vote D, vote R
congrats you got R… thats muuuuuuch better. i’m sure when the marines get deployed to your city you can be comforted by the fact that at least you sent the democrats a message!
how’s that going by the way? they listening? is it working? please tell me you at least achieved that! because if they haven’t listened, SHIT you got fascism AND a party that’s in every possible way “meh”
Zohran Mamdani won the NYC primary, so it sure sounds like the voters are paying attention.
Whether or not the party wants to listen is their perogative, so long as they claim to represent us they can rise or fall on the strength of their promises to us and our faith in their willingness to make good on those promises.
“Nothing will fundamentally change” sure isn’t working as well as Obama’s “hope and change”, is it?
Yes, thats the exactly place to go hard left, full on no compromises. In the Democratic primaries.
Not in the presidential election when you know one of exactly two people will win and your choice is which one of them you favour over the other.
Other way round actually.
I wish I had that much power, then I’d simply demand that the Democrats run good candidates that people would vote for.
Are you today’s explanation? Every time the Dems lose, they go to the center to find voters. If you want them to go left, you have to give them wins first. Right now every time they go left, they lose. Biden gave green energy and build back better. The reward? Lose the house. Harris was going to pretty much continue. What was the answer? Voters said no. Their left policy made the Dems lose.
Are you today’s right-winger cosplaying as a lib?
The center is to the left of where the party was 10 years ago. If the party actually acted like you suggest they are then they wouldn’t have lost to an 80’s villain twice.
Why would they go left if the plan to find a middle ground with Republicans was working?
Zohran Mamdani.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Bernie Sanders.
Every time they’ve gone left they’ve won, every time they reject the left they lose.
Hell, even that neoliberal Obama who never kept his campaign promises still at least promised us hope and change and won twice, but now the Democrats can only promise that nothing will change. I guess we can credit them with being honest?
The answer is that Biden never went left. “Green energy” is a neoliberal plan to replace fossil fuel subsidies with rare earth subsidies while changing nothing about their extraction, manufacturing, or distribution processes and “Build Back Better” never passed.
A continuation of nothing is still nothing.
Always a good sign when you start off with a strawman/ personal attack.
Ok where do we start. Well first off we’re talking national level, not mayoral candidates or safe districts.
So now let’s look at the history. Let’s go through this chronologically.
Bill Clinton: After successive Dem losses Bill figured out “it’s the economy stupid”, aka center policy, not leftist policy that gets you elected. Plus when you run against an incumbent (Bush senior) you generally run from the center. So that’s what he did. And he won.
Gore: After the population hopefully warmed up with Bill Clinton, he stuck his head out left with climate change. And bam he lost the election. Thanks 3rd party protest voters! Aka: The left never shows up.
Obama: So guess what Obama learned? Don’t stick your head out. He ran on broad “hope” and “yes we can” and having energy, hoping the ambiguity would be enough considering Bush’s disastrous wars. And he won.
More on Obama: So he enacted the ACA. That’s great, right? The thanks Obama got for that was to lose the House of Representatives for year 3 and 4. And lose the House of reps again for years 5 and 6. And then lose both the House of reps and the Senate for years 7 and 8. He enacted left policy and: The left never shows up.
Hillary Clinton: So what did Hillary learn from the last 6 years of Obama? She learned that the left never shows up. So she only stuck her head out with a big position to left on the map room to climate change. She basically declared war on climate change. You know that big existential issue that all the leftists care about, right? The big important issue that the left says they want so badly, right? And guess what happened? Bam she lost. Thanks protest non-voters! Aka: The left never shows up.
Biden: Just like Obama learned from Gore, Biden learned from Hillary that you don’t stick your head out left on anything. Not one thing. And he was running against an incumbent, so once again when you do that you run center. And he won.
Biden in office: But he did left things anyway. He did green energy (you’re against green energy?), EVs, drug price control, PACT act, Chips act, etc. And what were the results? Lost the House of Representatives for years 3 and 4. Polls showed him losing the election to Trump. He enacted left policy and: The left didn’t show up for midterms, and was not going to show up for the next election.
Harris: Harris ran on abortion rights, democracy and while she didn’t say it was apparent she’d continue green energy. She relied on the left to show up for their rights and for democracy. They couldn’t even do that. Aka the left never shows up. (Btw Bill Clinton was right, it’s the economy stupid. Trump won on the economy.)
And people are amazed that they don’t run a big left platform? Every time they rely on the left they lose. Every Single Time. And the next guy learns to go to the center to win. Because the center voters actually show up.
So how do you get them to move left? By giving them victories first. Consistent and overwhelming victories. Show them it’s safe to take policy chances. Because right now every time they run on left platforms or enact left policies, they lose. Every. Single. Time.
Technically correct on one bill BUT missing that most it was passed through different bills. So passed.
Right‽ Also, why would you make such an honest admission? It isn’t doing anything to help your argument.
Are you trying to tell me that the governor of Rhode Island has more pull than a mayor of America’s biggest metro with 8x as many constituents? This is a supremely weird way to open up your response.
Lol.
I think you should try that plan. Start with Mamdani.
Nope. These people need to feel just as stupid as Trump voters in 2016 who subsequently voted for Biden after seeing the result. Given how many are still defensively showing up to post walls of text every time this is brought up, there’s a lot of work to be done to overcome the counter-messaging.
We should absolutely do what we can to primary feckless centrist Democrats, and to push the party to the left, but that’s not mutually exclusive with getting people to show up and not make the same stupid decision twice. We aren’t going to completely fix our democracy in 2 years to the point that these idiots will be satisfied. We can make headway on making things better, but people need to vote for that to happen.
So to be absolutely clear: if you did not vote, this is what you voted for. That should be upsetting, you should feel bad, and you should make damn sure that you don’t make the same mistake in 2026, 2028, or any other election as long as you live.
I’m not from the US mate. I’m just pointing out pretty obvious issues that maybe are easier to see from the outside.
But saying that if one didn’t vote one voted for this is simply nonsensical. So people who didn’t vote for Biden voted for Biden? Or did they vote for Stein? This is just playing with numbers and wishful thinking, conditioned by a two party system.
Also, I don’t think it really matters, but I have voted in recent national elections to try and stop the shitbirds from getting to power where I can vote. (They got to power.) But I respect those who refuse to vote, or can’t because the system is messed up and biased against them (voting on a Tuesday? How do you accept that shit?). You can’t realistically blame people for not voting if you system doesn’t even properly represent the “none of the above” option. That’s just a messed up voting system.
Also if you think that’s a “wall of text”, I’m slightly concerned.
I won’t feel bad about not voting for Kamala even if I were sent to El Salvador, or marched into a gas chamber. I made peace with that before I voted PSL.
Y’all fundamentally misunderstand us. You think we’re simply misinformed, that we don’t appreciate the threat, that if only we saw the facts of what the Republicans are like, we’d immediately see things your way. What you don’t understand is that we do see the facts, we’re just operating under a different ethical and political framework from you. The point of disagreement is not about the facts on the ground, it’s about the best way to respond to them. So merely pointing to the awful shit the Republicans do has no chance of swaying, well, I can’t speak for everyone, but certainly me, and anyone who thinks like me.