Green politicians from across Europe on Friday called on U.S. Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein to withdraw from the race for the White House and endorse Democrat Kamala Harris instead.
“We are clear that Kamala Harris is the only candidate who can block Donald Trump and his anti-democratic, authoritarian policies from the White House,” Green parties from countries including Germany, France, Denmark, Italy, the Netherlands, Ireland, Estonia, Belgium, Spain, Poland and Ukraine said in a statement, which was shared with POLITICO ahead of publication
She won’t.
Of course she won’t. She is Putin’s puppet.
I never get tired of showing this photo.
It is ten years old so you are not exaggerating.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/06/jill-stein-says-nothing-happened-at-her-dinner-with-putin/ https://www.newsweek.com/jill-stein-ties-vladimir-putin-explained-1842620 I’ll never get tired of posting this in response.
You get that nothing had to happen at the dinner, right? That’s not how networking works.
Okay, then prove that something happened. I’m not the one implying she’s some sort of Russian asset with 0 evidence beyond a photo. That’s you.
I don’t have to prove anything happened. She was put at a dinner table with Putin in Moscow. Something that only happens if Putin finds you useful. He doesn’t sit at random tables and strike up conversations with whoever he finds.
You put the rest together.
You made the assertion, so the onus is on you to prove it.
No one is saying anything had to happen, but she was certainly invited there there for a reason.
You don’t get put at a dinner table in Moscow with Putin unless Putin has a good reason for wanting you there.
He doesn’t just sit down with random people and hope they have a good time.
Shit, and all this time I thought he just had a passion for entertaining!
That’s basically what this person seems to be suggesting. Like she just happened to be sitting there and Putin and all of his closest people were like, “let’s go see who this lady is and what she’s up to!”
Well, sure. I’m not saying that Russians didn’t have a nefarious reason to invite her there. It’s entirely possible and maybe even likely that they did it because they saw a third party candidate as a useful tool to sow some sort of election discord in the US. But that claim would be entirely different than the claim that Jill Stein did it because she’s an asset or that this was her idea or purpose for being there. I’m disputing the latter, not the former, because her attending a gala for RT is not evidence of collusion and this was the implication being made. I can find all sorts of pictures online of Hillary Clinton and other politicians having dinners with Trump or Putin, but that doesn’t mean the photos are evidence that they were in collusion with either of them.
That would be against the entire purpose of her campaign.
Havent they pretty much admitted that shes running cause republicans have paid for her campaign, to try and split votes from democrats?
If she didn’t her Votes wouldn’t go to Harris lol. If people don’t want to Vote Dem they aren’t going vote Dem. Harris has had all the time in the world to put effort into courting voters the same way she did Republicans. I plan on voting Third Party only for future elections. I want nothing to do with people who excuse genocide and link up with Dick Cheney.
Your heart is in the right place. I’m right there with you, but I voted Harris because the system doesn’t count my heart being in the right place, the two party system doesn’t acknowledge me. My vote won’t matter much anyways, since Seattle is going blue no matter what. But blowing up the popular vote to make it clear Americans don’t want trump meant more than a lost third party vote. But next time, as long as it’s not Maga on the ballot, I don’t want anything to do with big Dem.
Trump thanks you for your vote, and I hope that you are among the first groups they round up.
So you want someone to be “rounded up” because of how they are exercising their right to vote, but you aren’t using that same time and energy to push your candidate to change positions to get said vote? This is the embodiment of blue maga lol
Someone’s sarcasm detector is broken.
Based on the other things they’re posting, I doubt it’s sarcasm. This person wants harm to come to people who vote third party. If not, they can reply to this clarifying otherwise or edit their original comment and I’ll happily stand corrected.
Ask Dick Cheney to tell Harris to changer her Border Policy and stop genocide and I’ll vote for her next time. :) I don’t care you subservient peon. I’m not standing with Dick Cheney or Liberals anymore. You don’t hate Republicans enough. You’re literally fine with right-wing policy if a (D) is doing it.
Yummy yummy boot leather. You love it. Now kissy kissy for your new god king!
There more choices on the ballot than two. Sorry not Americans are heartless dogs who jump when Dems tell them to do so. Harris closer to Policy than to Trump than any of the other choices on the Ballot. People also live in Red States you goober.
There are two viable choices.
where will you be voting at? i’d like to shake your hand
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vapid mouth breather.
They might be a mouth typer too. The parent comment has words arranged in a way that vaguely resembles the concept of a sentence.
That’s because they’re one of those foreign agent accounts made to cause discourse
The only traitors to this country are you subservient clowns who never stand for anything, continue to want people throw away their morals to retain comfort. I don’t give af about your approval. You lapdogs will continue to get dog walked by the GOP and you’ll support similar policy or throw any group under the bus for victory. Harris made her choices and it is her fault if she loses. I’ll do as she said on Trans health and follow the law. Get those people you called fascists a few months ago to walk you to the finish and line and clap it up like seals for the border wall you called bad a few years ago.
“I’m doing things that make it easier for the Trump regime to take power, but you’re the problem.”
Great stance.
It wouldn’t be this close if Harris just came out against the genocide in Gaza. Instead she has shunned Arab and Muslim voters.
I am in Pennsylvania and I am voting for Jill Stein. Everything I could have done to communicate my grievances I have tried, including meeting with my representative who just insulted me instead of even feigning humanitarian concern.
I am in Pennsylvania
Press X to doubt.
x
These foreign discourse accounts really are putting in work. Anyone that can rub two braincells together can see through this bag faith argument.
If you vote for Jill Stein, you’re voting for Trump.
It really wouldn’t be. Trump would be clearly winning if she did that.
Why do you think she’d gain more voters than loose by changing her stance on Israel? There are clearly people out there who support Israel otherwise it wouldn’t even be up for debate. I haven’t seen anything indicating she’d pick up more voters by changing her stance (which is still better than Trumps).
I can’t imagine the votes she’d gain for denouncing the war on Gaza would be bigger than the votes she’d lose for going against Israel.
Yeah, I only bring it up because Harris’ primary goal is to win the election. It sucks, but Israel is only one element of this election and the public isn’t in agreement with it. Harris could even want to be more aggressive on it, but can’t sacrifice the election.
At the end of the day, there are two candidates. In a fptp system, you’ve got to vote for the better of the two candidates. Not voting for Harris is enabling Trump and will only lead to a worse situation in Israel.
“Why do you think I’m running? Isn’t this like telling me not to drink water to prevent hydration?” - Jill Stein probably
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European Greens must be dumb as fuck then, because the US Green party exists to:
Get
Republicans
Elected
Every
November
Maybe if your candidate were more popular than a rapist felon you wouldn’t need to worry about the Greens.
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I think from a third party point of view that makes no sense. It’s not for her to prop up the broken electoral system. Harris is essentially the lesser evil in this argument, but the real problem is the electoral system.
Arguably the “better” outcome for third parties is for Harris to win the popular vote and lose the election because of the stupid electoral college system. That may actually get Democrats more serious about electoral reform which would benefit everyone. They’ve already lost twice despite winning the popular vote (Gore and H Clinton). Yet they continue to support broken electoral systems across the country at national and state level as all they care about is Dem vs Rep. Not actual democracy.
The Democrats didn’t even have a proper primary contest in this election, they value democracy so little. They tried to forced Biden on the party and voters and it blew up spectacularly. The party needs a shake up and frankly losing may be better for them than Harris saving them from the party’s own disastrous mismanagement.
I’m no fan of trump, but Americas problems run far deeper and are far more systemic than one election.
and giving trump his seat back is only going to deepen them
While the electoral college is problematic, it isn’t relevant in this regard. First past the post is the issue.
FPTP plus winner-take-all. WTA needs to go away at the same time FPTP does.
If you’re an internet rando, and don’t understand the broken game theory behind FPTP, then you’re an idiot. It’s obvious!
If you’re a candidate, and don’t understand the broken game theory behind FPTP, then that’s fine, you’re not playing dumb or anything. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and go kick that football.
So voting for a hand puppet with no serious program, credentials, infrastructure to govern is better? Stein has no ambitions to make american do anything better, else she would be front and center actually doing something between election cycles… but she does not. If anything you have more risks, cause in the case she would magically win, who would become het cabinet? You have no clue who and what they stand for… And that should worry you … A lot.
The electoral system will be fixed if Trump wins. He will just dissolve it and end the election process. Voila! Reform!
🙄
Jill Stein is funded by Russia. Every multicellular organism knows this by now.
Yup, even my friend Fred the Fungi was just yapping about this, told me to follow the money.
Yarp, and still voted for her because harris is that bad and hasnt shifted at on key issues that actually relate to the role of president. Like supporting labor (kahn, no strike busting, etc) and follwing the law with respect to weapon sales/delivery.
Focus your energy on getting harris to move, its a lot easier than getting people like me to move; we actually have moral values, harris doesnt. Though at this point its unlikely there are many hold outs waiting for her. Cast my ballot a week ago. Good luck in your efforts! Im rooting for you 🤷
“My moral values allow me to vote against my best interests and the welfare of anyone who doesn’t align with the christofascist right. I have such a difficult time with concepts like “logical thinking” and “cause and effect” that I can rationalize such a terrible decision and even pretend that I’m the solution!”
Is it hard to type with Putin’s dick in your mouth?
No
At least you are not worried about all the extra people in the world that will get hurt by your reactionary stance leading to a trump presidency. If you can’t have your way, let the world burn… Gotcha.
In this case you either vote against actual fascism or risk it taking over.
I might be more tempted to believe this if I wasn’t regularly accused of the same thing by every Democrat on Lemmy.
Nothing to believe. The proof is in front of your eyes. Green Party funding is from Russian sources. Jill loves to have dinners with Putin and the oligarchs.
It holds a little more weight when you’ve been photographed at a formal dinner alongside every single Russian head of state.
Haha they must be new to this, Jill Stein isn’t running for president, she is running to split the vote like they paid her to.
Fun fact: if jill wasnt on the ballot harris still wouldn’t have received my vote. Harris losing votes has nothing to do with jill being there. Harris’ struggles are purely her own fault, propaganda from Russia only works if there is a edge to grab, the only reason there is an edge to grab is because harris has decided to treat arab Americans absolutely horribly this entire campaign.
Learn to focus your energy properly: on changing Harris’ mind not the voters for whom preventing a genocide is important. Trust me it’ll be easier.
Jill has a snowball’s chance in hell of winning and if you think voting for her helps the “Arabs” you are wrong. It cancels out your voice because Jill is not a viable candidate. Your vote has been effectively split.
Your choices, like it or not, are Harris or Trump. So let’s break this down since you seem to think a vote for Harris is worse than not voting.
Kamala Harris has prioritized a ceasefire in Gaza, advocating for Israel’s right to respond to Hamas attacks while emphasizing civilian protection and addressing humanitarian needs. Harris’s approach focuses on a three-part plan for Gaza’s future: reconstruction, enhanced Palestinian Authority security, and governance reforms to stabilize the area post-conflict. Harris, however, does not support an arms embargo on Israel but has backed withholding specific weapons amid Israel’s military operations in Gaza. She views a two-state solution as a path toward long-term stability, but she stresses that immediate efforts should be humanitarian and diplomatic to prevent civilian harm and prepare for a sustainable resolution.
Donald Trump, in contrast, has heavily criticized ceasefire calls as limiting Israel’s ability to eliminate Hamas, framing his support as “unconditional” for Israel’s military objectives. Trump argues that his policies would have prevented the escalation of violence, asserting that Hamas’s attack on Israel would not have occurred if he were in office. While he has expressed skepticism about a two-state solution, Trump is more focused on empowering Israel to pursue military action without restriction. Trump has also suggested that his approach would involve exerting pressure on Israeli leadership if necessary to secure what he describes as a “final resolution” to the conflict, though specifics remain vague. Trump’s campaign has used pro-Israel rhetoric to appeal to voters and has signaled a hardline stance against Hamas.
So, I am sure your voting for the lady who can’t win as opposed to the lady who can win will help the “Arabs” you seem to care so much about. Good on you for picking a hill to die on though, I hope you like it because you and your people are about to die on it.
Who would have recieved your vote, if only Trump and Harris were on the ballot?
Oh! Oh I’ve seen this one in another thread!
“I wouldn’t vote for either of them.”
That’s not an option in this exercise, you have to pick one or the other.
“I don’t see why I’d have to choose. I pick neither.”
Again, that wasn’t the question. Harris or Trump are the only acceptable answers. If you have to choose one, which would it be?
That’s how the exchange generally went. It shone a really nice spotlight on the ridiculous mindset at play.
I’m waiting for jatone to chime in. Humans aren’t good at logic problems, especially real world ones where they don’t have to follow instructions. Ever try giving a logic puzzle to a 6 year old and they answer “well I wouldn’t do either of those things I’d buy an airplane and use a laser gun and then…”
That’s what this stuff is. While I understand the desperate need to reform the system, you don’t do that by throwing the game. I know how unlikely it is to change their minds (and they already voted) but others reading this who aren’t as bull-headed might take half a second to re-evaluate the actual outcomes available from the actions to be taken. That’s the hope anyways.
Good on you for remaining hopeful! In cases like this, though, the ignorance is willful. They know how absurd they’re acting. Once the conversation goes past the point of their ability to just be obstinate, they abruptly cease responding.
And that lack of response will be another data point for anyone reading this in the future.
Of course they know that. They’re saying this to make exactly this point. While the average US voter will be entirely unaware of and oblivious to what some pinkos from cheese eating surrender monkey land say, potential green voters just might take notice.
If they haven’t already, they won’t.
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I don’t like that phrase because it was used a lot by the american right when france refused to support them in the Iraq war and by far right figures in the UK during Brexit.
Of course. The way it was used here was to make fun of exactly those people.
If I recall correctly it originally started as something said by Willie in the simpsons but then a lot of people started saying it in real life to insult people based on nationality which is kinda fucked up and was condemned as xenophobic.
How do you do, savage from the colonies?
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Good. I was apart of the Green Party, I left when I learned they were planning of running a candidate this year, when internally, we were floating around the idea of NOT running a candidate.
That’s interesting insider info. Was the reason for not fielding a candidate because of this particular issue (splitting the vote)?
Why would ylu believe a rando on a forum post re: insider info?
Why would you assume I just believe them outright? I just said it was interesting and asked a follow up question to get more info.
Fair enough, cary on warning remains for others. :)
Can’t say exactly, it was just floated around, I’m guessing it was for that specific reason, but that was around the time I was thinking of leaving for other reasons, they are VERY unorganized as a party and it really, really bothered me. The way smaller Transhumanist Party seems more organized than the Green Party.
Probably because running a presidential candidate is a waste of money unless your intent is to split the vote.
Start local, gain influence, work your way up.
Edit - to those downvoting, the Green Party literally has zero representation, even at the State level. And you want to jump straight to POTUS. Riiight.
Get one state senate seat. Get one House of Representatives seat. Get some kind of representation. Then you have a bargaining chip.
The threat of splitting the vote is a good reason to run, if you feel like your position isn’t being taken seriously enough AND that it’s important enough that everything else is worth losing.
The problem is that the majority of the Democrats are on board with green initiatives. The only holdup on the $10T program before was Manchin. She has now pivoted RCV, or more specifically destroying the duopoly because they are the enemy for “reasons”.
Also, she’s said that she wouldn’t pull out even if the Dems gave her what she wanted. So it doesn’t really work as a threat either.
Eh, threatening to split the vote might in theory get some campaign promises, but such promises are likely to evaporate when things get down to it.
Meanwhile if you actually hold a persistent presence in the house or senate, particularly when it’s close, you got ongoing leverage. Hell, folks like AOC, MTG, Boebert have an absurd amount of national influence for being elected by merely a singular district.
IDK if I really want to know but I can imagine a mid-to-far-left party like the greens would have a lot of disparity in the views of members.
Isn’t it too late for it to matter? At this point, she’s on the ballots that she’s on, isn’t she?
Especially for states like Oregon that are primarily vote by mail. I already have my ballot, and Stein withdrawing won’t keep people from voting for her
Yes, her name is already on the ballots, like RFK Jr is still on the ballots in many states, but the hope is her supporters will listen to her endorsement. Just because a person’s name is on the ballot doesn’t force people to vote for that person. Some people have voted already, some will continue to vote for her out of protest, some will continue to vote for her because they didn’t hear she dropped out or didn’t care. But the hope is enough people will hear that she dropped out and endorsed Harris that their votes will come through for Harris.
What a shit show, honestly.
When I went to vote last week and saw RFK Jr.'s name was still on the Indiana ballot, I burst out laughing.
You’re assuming we voted for jill because shes jill. Which is not the case for everyone. She got my vote because of Harris’ absolutely abysmal treatment of arabs and gaza, her lack of pro labor policies, etc etc etc.
Jill dropping out would just meant the vote went to a different non-trump candidate or left blank.
The only way harris would have gotten my vote was if she modified her position on gaza, or another key issues like ensuring kahn was kept.
She declined to do so, so i declined to vote for her. 🤷 But harris will be fine my state is 20+ dem.
That’ll teach her! Way to go - you really stuck it to that horrible excuse of a candidate.
It’s not like she had better labor policies (or practices) than that other guy (or did she?)
It’s not like that other guy was (allegedly) working with an (alleged) war criminal to rebuff US efforts to make a ceasefire deal (or was he?)
And finally, it’s not like AIPAC can literally thumbs up or down damn near any politician in the US like Julius H. Fucking, Ceasar and an almost universal bloc of voters will carry out their direction. Oh, wait, they will.
The thing that pisses me off is that yeah, maybe she’s fine in Cali or Hawaii or wherever. But there’s gonna be a fuck of a lot more death and misery in the world if fascists get control of the United States in the form of Donald Trump, and in those few states that matter (because of the fucked up electoral college) that attitude , which I perceive as smug self-righteousness, could be the deciding factor.
That simple worldview, unburdened with the whole idea of “you can’t make change if you’re not elected” must really be comfortable.
But you sure showed Harris.
I’d love to expound on this thought, but I have a fussy infant daughter that needs attending. BTW, it would be really cool if she FUCKING DIDN’T have to grow up in some goddamned Handmaid’s Tale dystopia.
So you’re ditching one fussy infant for another?
I agree it would be great if your daughter didnt grow up in such a dystopia. So tell me have you been emailing your critters to let them know to reverse course on gaza? Worker rights, (ala khan, health care etc?). Did you vote for harris in the prinary (rhetorical question obv)?
Gaza is such a low bar, ‘dont send weapons to a country genociding’ we even have laws already on the books for this. Harris wants to claim herself as law and order she can follow the fucking law.
Now as i said i live in 20+ state. My vote is literally wasted on harris. The best outcome we can get w/ harris is an absolute squeeker of a win. If she loses she has no one to blame but herself shes been getting told for months to reverse course on gaza. Biden has been getting told for a year. Their refusal is whats caused this.
Now ask yourself: would you vote for harris if she reversed course in gaza? If the answer is yes, then why havent you joined us in pressuring her? All it takes is a lie to pollsters, calls to your critters, and a willingness to reduce her win ratio in deep blue states. dont worry we’re not asking you to vote 3rd party in red/purple states. Vote harris in those places if you can, if you can’t no judgement its not your fault harris ran on these policies.
Whats more important is that we get every possible vote out down ballot. harris is secondary concern. What matters more is the house/senate. A harris win is essentially useless if we cant pass legislation. While a harris loss control of those chambers will be incredibly critical.
You want roe v wade codified, focus on local reps and congress critters, ballot measures. You’ll have more success.
I completely agree with your last two paragraphs. Regarding the rest, the other person that replied stated my thoughts in much more eloquent terms than I’m able at present.
Edit: regarding the electoral and electorate math: I noticed you didn’t touch the “Trump working the Netenyahu to block a ceasefire” (which would obliviate the need for bombs), “you can’t govern if you can’t win”, and “AIPAC” topics, but also seem to think that all of this is Harris’ fault or she has control of this.
Yeah so the message so far has been carte Blanche vote third party. None of the nuance you’re displaying here is evident in 99% of these 3rd party posts. They’re all “genocide BAD, vote 3rd party or you’re COMPLICIT!” so the message here isnt what you’re saying.
Secondly, applying your logic regarding wasted effort because your state is solid blue, telling others to write their congresspeople on the issue is equally useless. Throwing the onus on them is shortsighted. The, “what have YOU done” argument doesn’t really hold water with anyone, particularly when many people reside in a solid red or blue state
Finally, voting 3rd party sends “a” message after the election, not during, and no candidate ever looks back at the election results to ask Greenies why they didn’t vote for them. They do canvassing before and during, and quite frankly they have to walk a tightrope between courting lefties and every other single-issue voter. Imagine you’re running and you have Greenies yelling about genocide, women’s rights yelling about bodily autonomy, and LGBTQ folks yelling about equality and all three don’t give a flying fuck about the others. What would you do? Exactly what Harris is doing - courting the biggest blocs of voters.
I’m not gonna touch on the general laziness of my compatriots, but when I went to early vote at my precinct there were a lot of people voting straight ticket, so I don’t think most people will dig through ballots to send that message. Frankly, Trump in power means nothing for down ballot votes because he still installs a fascist regime.
Response from Jill: Can you outbid Putin?
lolbruh. she takes her orders from putin.
a post I made earlier:
If Harris loses California, New York, Massachusetts, Maryland, Connecticut, Hawaii, Vermont, DC, or Maine-1 because of vote-splitting by Stein, it will be Harris’s fault. If you’re voting in these states, you might as well vote your heart.
The Green party isn’t a party worth anyone’s heart. It’s all a big grift funded by conservatives that only puts any effort into the scammy presidential run. I don’t want more of that, I want progressives that challenge moderate Democrats in safe seats to give people a real option to move left.
I’m in Hawaii, and we’re solid blue but last election the Greens had a whole of 2 candidates across the entire state. Some random party I’d never heard of had more candidates on the ballot. My state rep won with something like 2000 votes, no Green challenger in sight. If the Greens were a real party they’d jump on that opportunity. A little sweat and door knocking can pull off 2000 votes. Hell, we have Ed fucking Case in Congress. I’d kill to vote against him, but my only other option is a MAGA conspiracy theorist.
The GPUSA isn’t a real party.
See this is your issue assuming we give a shit about jill or the green party. 😂
We dont. it was just a convenient box to tick because harris’ campaign tried to remove her from the ballot, and fed their bullhorns the line about splitting the ticket. The vote would still have been cast for a different third party candidate unless Harris’ position was corrected. It wasnt so the box gets ticked away.
Learn to properly focus your political energy: its much easier to get harris to flip than getting a million voters who have morals to flip.
So unless you want what is happening in gaza: learn to lie to your politicians.
- Tell them you’ll vote third party over x.
- Follow through if you’re in a deep blue state.
- Hedge your bet by voting Democrats down ballot.
- Always lie to pollsters about your intent for any given candidate. The less reliable polls are the better. Means your letters to your politicians are more important.
Are you saying that if Stein dropped out, her supporters would have voted for De la Cruz?
