You all remember just a few weeks ago when Sony ripped away a bunch of movies and TV shows people “owned”? This ad is on Amazon. You can’t “own” it on Prime. You can just access it until they lose the license. How can they get away with lying like this?
If they’re saying “own” on their advertisements then they should be required to refund you when they eventually have to take it away. I’m pretty sure “ownership” has a legal definition and it’s probably not too ambiguous.
It should at least be considered false advertising if they can’t guarantee access permanently.That’s the best part
They redefine “own” and “buy” in their TOS
And so do many many other online retailers that sell digital goods
I wonder if that would hold in court. They could simply use “rent” or “lease” in their ads, but they purposely are trying to mislead to imply permanence.
The people who can afford to fight this kind of court case have no interest in doing so.
Don’t you have customer protection NGOs in the USA?
We have corporate protections in the USA.
Refunding the sale price is still theft. If it was only worth that much to me (zero surplus), then I wouldn’t have bothered with the trade in the first place. The only things worth buying are worth more to you than the sale price.
Oh I had never thought of this or come across this concept! That’s a really elegant concept. Of course, in a transaction you’re putting in more effort than the money. The time it takes you to go through the purchase, the research, the cost of opportunity of that money… meaning those have to be covered in the cost of the transaction, and therefore the goods must be cheaper than the perceived value by those amounts.
You’ve sent me down a rabbit hole and I thank you for that. Now I’m off to read about economics 🤓
Refunding the sale price is still theft.
What did you lose in this theft?
You got back everything you paid and you still got to enjoy the movie.
The way I see it you benefited from this transaction.
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Refunding the sale price is still theft.
What did you lose in this theft?
Is there really nothing in your home right now you would be sad if someone took and just gave you the money you paid for it?
Even a digital copy of a movie may not be so easy to replace on the services I have access to.
Stores are not allowed to go home to people and take back the stuff they sold, even if they refund the price. Neither should a company that advertise “pay this price and own this movie” rather than “pay this price and rent it for an indeterminate time”.
Is there really nothing in your home right now you would be sad if someone took and just gave you the money you paid for it?
Well of course, but I wouldn’t care much about movies or media. Especially if the media is readily available elsewhere which is always the case for movies you “bought” digitally.
Especially if the media is readily available elsewhere which is always the case for movies you “bought” digitally.
Except when they aren’t. Especially if located outside the US, it is far from obvious that a given movie is available through another service.
A dollar today is worth more than a dollar in 1 year
I used to buy movies on Amazon, assuming it worked like Steam does, where if Steam loses the license to sell it, you still have the ability to play it even if Steam isn’t allowed to sell it.
Hell I still have access to the stuff I got back when Steam still sold movies (I honestly miss Steam movies…)
When people started telling me their copies of things they owned were no longer usable once Amazon stopped selling it, I stopped buying.
IF BUYING ISN’T OWNING PIRACY ISN’T STEALING!
I haven’t ran into a situation where any of the digital copies of things I bought have been pulled. So I can’t speak to what happened with your friends. But I will say that if you have any purchased digital copies of movies, you should at least setup Movies Anywhere and link all accounts you have. It isn’t like how Steam will still allow you to download a pulled game. But it does give you copies of things on multiple sources once linked. So if you got something on Amazon, it would also be linked as “purchased” on other services like Vudu, YouTube/Play Movies, Apple, etc… It won’t apply to everything you have got but would likely cover most big name items.
It used to be marked with the old “Ultraviolet” branding, but when that was shutdown the basic underlying service was transferred to Movies Anywhere. Most of the time you can see which things would count because they have the MA logo. Not great for smaller releases and most shows won’t be part of it (atm at least). Though some shows might also show up, as I have seen things from HBO and some other ones.
All that being said. You are very much correct about “buying isn’t owning” these days. And even when there is something like MA, there are still thousands of movies and shows that will only ever get a digital “release” from torrents/P2P. Sad that some cool shit will never get a real HD re-master for Blu-ray (let alone streaming). I very much feel that studios should have at best a 10 year window to make whatever sales before the masters should be copied to public archives. If the studios won’t do it, then there are more than plenty of people out there that would do the job for the love of keeping old media preserved and accessible. Also bullshit when I try to go the “legal” route and find a show on one service in HD but only in SD on others. It is pretty infuriating to see that in some cases I can only get like season 2 of something on say Vudu for example, but season 1 is seemingly exclusive to Amazon. And one is in HD and the other is only SD.
I looked at Movies Anywhere and
- US only
- Movies bought only (no series, does not support rentals)
- sounds like they offer a unified interface to multiple providers - but you’re saying it unlocks the bought movies on the other platforms? - if it’s only a frontend it’d not help in keeping access
I did fail to mention it is US only (my bad in that). Though it could get expanded if it is popular enough and it can be pointed to as “reducing piracy.” But international laws being complicated from nation to nation is also an issue, or at least something they might say. I haven’t been out of the country since setting it up, so I am curious if I would need a VPN to access my licensed stuff. Maybe would work for folks that have made accounts in the past with VPN? Idk.
It does work with some very limited sets of shows. But like I said, they aren’t really about that and the shows tend to be from studios like HBO. But not helpful for most anything other than movies.
It is a unified interface, but if I buy a MA labeled movie from say Vudu. It will also show-up in my iTunes, Microsoft, YouTube/Google Movies, Amazon, and of course MA. They have some additional connected services via Direct TV and Verizon, but I don’t use those. But the point is that if I get it on one of the services I connected, they become available on all of them. Even when the UltraViolet service went down, I didn’t lose the things I had bought. Though I think that Disney must have bought their connections and the UV stuff was migrated. Though I am not sure of those details. Either way it didn’t lead to me losing anything.
It also does require that you periodically sign back into their site to re-connect each provider similar to how you have to sign back into other sites. But again, I at no point have lost access to what was in my account if I haven’t signed in to re-verify. It isn’t as cut and dry as having the physical discs or a torrented copy on a NAS. But it is still worth knowing about if you have “legit” copies. I really wish that there were a way to link my Plex account and be able to watch them in the same front-end as my local stuff though. But no way that is going to happen unless Plex completely stops supporting the Plex Server and works out deals to use APIs of stuff like Vudu, Amazon, iTunes, etc…
Are people really out here buying a media that can only be viewed through an app? If it’s not a file that can be downloaded and viewed elsewhere then I’m definitely not going for it… Who am I kidding? The seas have always been the life for me landlubbers!!
I am on the belief that once I buy something, let’s say Spiderman No Way Home, on streaming services, I am entitled to download it offline from anywhere for my own Jellyfin.
No one, or even biggest corp, can change my view.
Downloading stuff like this for personal use is in fact perfectly legal in many countries
In some countries making a private copy isn’t legal if copy protections are in place. Even if those copy protections are useless.
Even if you don’t pay for it?
In Switzerland it technically is legal. Only hosting for others is illegal.
If only they allowed you to do it easily…
Well it is easy.
It’s just they don’t allow it.
One out of two ain’t bad.
“I am altering the deal, pray I do not alter it further”
Did you click on it? Maybe it links to a torrent :D
Own the temporary license.
Nobody with enough money has sued… Yet…
This sort of blatant violation of the First Sale Doctrine shouldn’t even require a lawsuit to stop; the FTC should prosecute companies for it proactively. We need to demand our government start doing its goddamn job again.
I mean, you can “buy” stuff in Amazon Prime Video off service. Unlike Netflix or other platforms, they will let you “buy or rent” streaming movies, which is the same as finding the movie on the Amazon storefront and buying the digital copy instead of a physical copy.
Now, does that mean they won’t yank it? Not really. A digital license is a license, not a purchase. Is the word “buy” or “own” inaccurate? I’m hoping not, because like the Sony thing showed, platforms are desperate to not have the courts improvise what rights they owe the buyers on digital purchases.
I’m still buying my movies in 4K BluRay, though. And working on ripping all of them for streaming at home, now that I finally have the space.
How are you digitizing BluRays? I’ve not found a way yet due to the DRM on those fuckers.
Look into MakeMKV. It’s “free” while in beta (in practice you need to input a new license key from their forums occasionally, so inconvenient unless you buy a real license) and can rip Blu-Rays with no issue. For ripping 4K, though, you’ll need a drive that supports LibreDrive which bypasses all of the drive’s built-in DRM. I personally use an LG BU40N in a Vantec external enclosure.
That’s very interesting. But do you always have to buy Blu-ray just to get digital copies? I wonder if there is other options to actually own the movies without the licensing bullshit.
So far I don’t know of any services that will just hand you a digital file of a movie outside of physical media.
I say that’s a damn fine business opportunity, because I’d be all over it, but hey.
A digital license is a license, not a purchase.
Stop repeating copyright cartel propaganda.
If buying isn’t owning, then you are being scammed.
If they have access to remove the media from your library on their end, then it’s a license and not a purchase.
That doesn’t mean they don’t owe you access to it, though. The fact that there isn’t a word for “I’ve acquired perpetual access even if I can’t back up the file itself” doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have the right to continue to access the media. Or to demand that right to be upheld in court, for that matter.
It’s not digital though. When you bought any physical media you purchased a license to view the content. You never owned the media on the disk cause that is the studios IP.
You have always owned your individual copy of the media on the disk!
Again, quit falling for the propaganda.
This is like saying I don’t own my car because it’s the manufacturer’s IP.
The full context of the quote is, while yes, the prospect of the complete elimination of private property is terrifying for some people (even socialists), the idea is that in the future, you won’t need to own anything and your life will be simpler and theoretically more fulfilling if we’re not preoccupied with owning things and keeping up with the Joneses.
but you’ll notice that it doesn’t say “we’ll own nothing and be happy”. they’re not willing to take the medicine they prescribe for you. they’re part of the class that’s destined to own everything.
It should be noted that Amazon was among the first to prove that buying isn’t owning a few years ago when a book that many people had legally bought was automatically scrubbed feom devices. The title had been removed from the catalog, and any kindle which held it automatically removed it without the users concent, and they were given amazon store credit in return.
This would be illegal in most EU countries.
I just do the morally correct thing. Buy it, then pirate it so I really do own it forever. Inconvenient from a data storage perspective but the only simple solution I have on hand.
Sometimes I do what I call “time travelling” where I pirate first with the intention to buy later when it’s cheaper.
Wouldn’t call that piracy.
100%. That’s a backup.
Or don’t buy it, then pirate it.
Depends on what it is. I’ll freeboot full priced games by well known companies that I don’t want to support but smaller games from studios trying their heart out? I’m a sucker for chucking money at them.
Probably intentional so they can change the definition of “own”
So you refund me if you take it away?
I feel like an outsider on these debates. I totally agree we should be able to own forever.
In my case I find there is so much new TV and movies I rarely go back to re-watch shows or movies so owning them isn’t on my radar. It’s a challenge just to watch a whole series I find.
I’m wondering how often do people beyond kids re-watch movies and TV shows? Kids seem to be able to rewatch the same movies several times a day…
I rewatch movies ALL THE TIME, especially during Christmas and Halloween. There are a couple of other films that I put on consistently as a comfort watch (The Guest, Dread, etc.). I have watched entirely though all 3 Stargate Series at least 3 times each. My wife and I often rewatch Psych and The office. I have watched through all of the Star Trek series at least 4 times each. I am on my 5th or 6th time through Futurama. I have watched Fringe twice at least. Twice through X-Files. I don’t know how many times I have watched Firefly. My wife has been through Friends at least 5 times. And she has watched Murder She Wrote (the entire series) probably 30 times. I have watched Columbo in its entirely no less than 3 times.
For me it’s preparing for future nostalgia, I want to be able to just "have it’ to look back on. It may sound strange to some people I guess but I can’t properly get “invested” in a show/movie/game without the knowledge that I’ll be able to rewatch it again, maybe at some point when I’m in my 80s and feel nostalgic about it. It’s a major barrier to my enjoyment in the present. It’s like why people take photos of things. 99% of what I would torrent are things I have access to now, that I would happily pay through the nose for if I could just own it in a DRM-free format.
While I am the same way with games, there should be a clear distinction between owning something and access to something with clearly defined limitations.
Some shows I watch once, but I am rewatching Futurama for probably the 20th time or so. Sometimes it is nice to revisit familiar things.
🥸 well you see, you own a digital license to watch the movie so long as we have it available, have you read our terms of agreement–
Agreed that this is scummy marketing, though. The only real way to own media (legally) anymore is through physical copies, and even then maybe there’s some provision that makes a DVD illegal due to license shenanigans… but no cop’s gonna bust down your door for owning an illegal DVD of Aquaman.
