What I seriously can’t estimate is, how persistent is gender identification in youths?
I mean, children and teenagers are generally idiots (I certainly was). As far as I know, there’s no physiological test to determine trans identity, so an outside observer has a really hard time distinguishing real and “fake” trans identity. I’m not even talking about willful deceit, but just the general instability of kids.
So, I can understand that people are hesitant to allow gender affirming care, because they fear they might do more harm than good. Especially if you’re somewhat older, all those trans issues must seem like a new trend, I certainly didn’t hear much about them 10 years ago. Unless there’s something like a proper scientific guideline, all judges and doctors are basically forced to judge themselves and will probably stick to the “old ways”.
You sound well meaning but uniformed. Sure more research is always good but this is already a very well understood field and I have ample sources to prove it.
I can understand that people are hesitant to allow gender affirming care, because they fear they might do more harm than good.
First off, there is absolutely zero surgeries being performed on minors. This is not happening. What is happening is puberty blockers and hormone replacement therapy, both of which are non-permanent. And once someone becomes an adult and begins more permanent affirming care, the rate of people experiencing regret is laughably low.
all those trans issues must seem like a new trend, I certainly didn’t hear much about them 10 years ago
I think you need to understand your personal limitations. Because it’s really not new, I mean I can point to ancient history with people like Empress Elagabalus, but if we just want to talk about modern medical transition there is Dr. Alan Hart in 1917 or Christine Jorgensen in 1952 a WW2 vet that made national headlines. The diagonosis of gender dysphoria has existed in the DSM since 1980. Trans identity or medical transitions is very far from a new concept.
Unless there’s something like a proper scientific guideline,
There are already numerous safeguards, such as to receive any gender affirming care (which is only ever provided to adults) requires multiple years on reversible Hormones and then letters of support form twoseparate psychiatrists.
Weather or not a doctor is allowed to prescribe proven treatments to a patient suffering from a preventable, manageable and curable condition is NOT something that a judge needs to determine. It exclusively is the purview of a patient and a doctor, not the law.
As a trans person myself, I need you to understand that reticence by the cis population is dangerous for the trans population. So while I can understand why it sounds extreme to you, that should only be a reason for you personally not to seek this sort of care. Not a reason for you to support roadblocks against the advice from medical professionals.
Thanks for all the info. Can you explain how hormone treatment for children would be non-permanent? I’d think that adding or substracting hormones, like say growth hormones, would always leave traces throughout ones further life
Because they temporarily block the onset of puberty, not permanently block it. Any effects are mostly reversible if the individual desires. What isn’t reversible are the all too frequent side effects of untreated dysphoria: death.
Thanks. But I see another disclaimer with ‘mostly reversible’… For children I think there would be a lot less opposition if it was only requested for fully reversible treatments.
They give youth hormone blockers to delay puberty. This gives them time to figure out if transitioning is really right for them without have their body modified by puberty. You can stay on puberty blockers until your mid 20’s pretty easily.
The first study is about adults, not children. The pediatrics talk about banning care all together. Both address exactly not my point.
First off, there is absolutely zero surgeries being performed on minors. This is not happening. What is happening is puberty blockers and hormone replacement therapy, both of which are non-permanent
I never implied surgery. And “non-permanent” is a euphemism. Blocking puberty for years can lead to permanent problems - like infertility.
Actually, your entire comment kind of proves my point: there isn’t research about how kids think and care ten years later.
As a trans person myself, I need you to understand that reticence by the cis population is dangerous for the trans population
And you need to understand, that finding out, whether a kid is part of that population is exactly the hard part.
And you need to understand, that finding out, whether a kid is part of that population is exactly the hard part.
I don’t think you fully appreciate the stigma and roadblocks associated with being trans. This isn’t something people do on a whim and the data supports it. They are part of my community when they say they are.
The children that have self advocated enough to persistently ask enough for medical transition deserve the opportunity to do so. Like truly, think of the position you would be putting them in.
Blocking anyone from getting the care they say they need is reckless. It’s not yours or the laws place to put up roadblocks to deny them that opportunity. It’s not protecting kids but quite the opposite, it simply raises the risk of self harm.
there isn’t research about how kids think and care ten years later.
The metric of 10 years is a high bar, but the data does exist.
220 youths who had accessed puberty blockers or hormones were detailed by the youth and/or their parents as part of an ongoing decade-long study of transgender youth. At a mean of 4.86 years after beginning blockers and 3.40 years after beginning hormones, they reported very high levels of satisfaction and low levels of regret; the overwhelming majority (97%) continued to access gender-affirming medical care.
these “well intentioned but just asking questions” commenters just make me sad :( there are so. many. dangerous medical procedures with higher regret rates out there that no one logs on to the internet to yap about government regulation. why? because medical boards are fucking smart and operating under the railguards of malpractice law. believe it or not, the doctors also care about the wellbeing of your child.
i mean gender affirming care has LESS REGRET RATES THAN FUCKING CANCER SURGERY! so where are the concerned citizens asking for government intervention for those poor folks? instead we have picked literally the most vulnerabe, hated, and young population to pit in one of the centermost political battlegrounds for concern and virtue signaling clout, chirping about a group whose number one threat of death is suicide.
no hate to either of you. i’m just sad and upset and grateful to you for helping 1 person get educated.
the cool thing is: research is being done and doctors and medical boards have the same concerns as you and are way smarter than both of us. gender affirming healthcare is treated with the same level of respect as every other healthcare field.
I feel like gender working should encompass figuring out if they do wish to transition and look at the reasons why one might be feeling that way, I always assumed it did, did it not?
To me, having no kind of care at all for trans people is just making it so that they can’t get all of the best/accurate information that they need to figure out who they truly are. Which is shite. Everyone deserves that chance regardless of age.
I feel like you misunderstood my point. Maybe on purpose, like apparently is tradition in these fields.
I never even implied “no care”, I’m talking about puberty blockers and hormone treatment. These are irreversible changes. And without knowing, who they “truly are” you can’t know, whether hormones are the right way to go. Damaging a trans kid by not treating is shite, but damaging a cis kid by treating it is also shite. And a doctor basically has to decide which of these risks to take - which is hard without proper data.
I didn’t misinterpret what you said, I was extending from it and asking a question about the topic at the same time. I don’t actually know what “gender affirming care” consists of, Hence my comment.
Gender affirming care, for minors, is about 2 things.
Helping them figure out what is actually going on.
Stopping difficult or irreversible changes.
The first is exactly what you want. It’s helping the children figure out exactly what they feel. It might also involve changing outward appearance (clothing etc) to see how it feels. Basically get their head straight with what they really want and feel.
The second is mostly puberty blockers. Puberty makes irreversible changes to the body. Blocking it doesn’t do any harm. It’s been used for decades to help with other conditions. When the blockers are removed, puberty proceeds normally. If the patient truly wants to transition, then an artificial puberty can be induced. This is far safer and more effective than surgery to fix things later.
What I seriously can’t estimate is, how persistent is gender identification in youths?
I mean, children and teenagers are generally idiots (I certainly was). As far as I know, there’s no physiological test to determine trans identity, so an outside observer has a really hard time distinguishing real and “fake” trans identity. I’m not even talking about willful deceit, but just the general instability of kids.
So, I can understand that people are hesitant to allow gender affirming care, because they fear they might do more harm than good. Especially if you’re somewhat older, all those trans issues must seem like a new trend, I certainly didn’t hear much about them 10 years ago. Unless there’s something like a proper scientific guideline, all judges and doctors are basically forced to judge themselves and will probably stick to the “old ways”.
As always: further research is needed.
You sound well meaning but uniformed. Sure more research is always good but this is already a very well understood field and I have ample sources to prove it.
First off, there is absolutely zero surgeries being performed on minors. This is not happening. What is happening is puberty blockers and hormone replacement therapy, both of which are non-permanent. And once someone becomes an adult and begins more permanent affirming care, the rate of people experiencing regret is laughably low.
I think you need to understand your personal limitations. Because it’s really not new, I mean I can point to ancient history with people like Empress Elagabalus, but if we just want to talk about modern medical transition there is Dr. Alan Hart in 1917 or Christine Jorgensen in 1952 a WW2 vet that made national headlines. The diagonosis of gender dysphoria has existed in the DSM since 1980. Trans identity or medical transitions is very far from a new concept.
Every major field of related medicine abundantly agrees that this is safe and necessary treatment. Such as American Academy of Pediatrics, American Medical Association and American Psychiatric Association.
There are already numerous safeguards, such as to receive any gender affirming care (which is only ever provided to adults) requires multiple years on reversible Hormones and then letters of support form two separate psychiatrists.
Weather or not a doctor is allowed to prescribe proven treatments to a patient suffering from a preventable, manageable and curable condition is NOT something that a judge needs to determine. It exclusively is the purview of a patient and a doctor, not the law.
As a trans person myself, I need you to understand that reticence by the cis population is dangerous for the trans population. So while I can understand why it sounds extreme to you, that should only be a reason for you personally not to seek this sort of care. Not a reason for you to support roadblocks against the advice from medical professionals.
Thanks for all the info. Can you explain how hormone treatment for children would be non-permanent? I’d think that adding or substracting hormones, like say growth hormones, would always leave traces throughout ones further life
Because they temporarily block the onset of puberty, not permanently block it. Any effects are mostly reversible if the individual desires. What isn’t reversible are the all too frequent side effects of untreated dysphoria: death.
Thanks. But I see another disclaimer with ‘mostly reversible’… For children I think there would be a lot less opposition if it was only requested for fully reversible treatments.
They give youth hormone blockers to delay puberty. This gives them time to figure out if transitioning is really right for them without have their body modified by puberty. You can stay on puberty blockers until your mid 20’s pretty easily.
Read your sources again.
The first study is about adults, not children. The pediatrics talk about banning care all together. Both address exactly not my point.
I never implied surgery. And “non-permanent” is a euphemism. Blocking puberty for years can lead to permanent problems - like infertility.
Actually, your entire comment kind of proves my point: there isn’t research about how kids think and care ten years later.
And you need to understand, that finding out, whether a kid is part of that population is exactly the hard part.
I don’t think you fully appreciate the stigma and roadblocks associated with being trans. This isn’t something people do on a whim and the data supports it. They are part of my community when they say they are.
The children that have self advocated enough to persistently ask enough for medical transition deserve the opportunity to do so. Like truly, think of the position you would be putting them in.
Blocking anyone from getting the care they say they need is reckless. It’s not yours or the laws place to put up roadblocks to deny them that opportunity. It’s not protecting kids but quite the opposite, it simply raises the risk of self harm.
The metric of 10 years is a high bar, but the data does exist.
220 youths who had accessed puberty blockers or hormones were detailed by the youth and/or their parents as part of an ongoing decade-long study of transgender youth. At a mean of 4.86 years after beginning blockers and 3.40 years after beginning hormones, they reported very high levels of satisfaction and low levels of regret; the overwhelming majority (97%) continued to access gender-affirming medical care.
When the researchers asked more about these regrets, she says, “often the regrets they were expressing had to do with [wishing] they hadn’t done blockers and they’d gone straight to hormones, or they maybe had a negative side effect related to the blockers.” For instance, having an implant that got irritated.
these “well intentioned but just asking questions” commenters just make me sad :( there are so. many. dangerous medical procedures with higher regret rates out there that no one logs on to the internet to yap about government regulation. why? because medical boards are fucking smart and operating under the railguards of malpractice law. believe it or not, the doctors also care about the wellbeing of your child.
i mean gender affirming care has LESS REGRET RATES THAN FUCKING CANCER SURGERY! so where are the concerned citizens asking for government intervention for those poor folks? instead we have picked literally the most vulnerabe, hated, and young population to pit in one of the centermost political battlegrounds for concern and virtue signaling clout, chirping about a group whose number one threat of death is suicide.
no hate to either of you. i’m just sad and upset and grateful to you for helping 1 person get educated.
That went from “just asking questions” to “I’m going to ignore all of the science that you’ve presented me with and be an asshole” really quick.
I’m grateful to you for making it so obvious that it is okay to block you and never see another thing you post. Thank you.
the cool thing is: research is being done and doctors and medical boards have the same concerns as you and are way smarter than both of us. gender affirming healthcare is treated with the same level of respect as every other healthcare field.
I feel like gender working should encompass figuring out if they do wish to transition and look at the reasons why one might be feeling that way, I always assumed it did, did it not?
To me, having no kind of care at all for trans people is just making it so that they can’t get all of the best/accurate information that they need to figure out who they truly are. Which is shite. Everyone deserves that chance regardless of age.
I feel like you misunderstood my point. Maybe on purpose, like apparently is tradition in these fields.
I never even implied “no care”, I’m talking about puberty blockers and hormone treatment. These are irreversible changes. And without knowing, who they “truly are” you can’t know, whether hormones are the right way to go. Damaging a trans kid by not treating is shite, but damaging a cis kid by treating it is also shite. And a doctor basically has to decide which of these risks to take - which is hard without proper data.
If you read their reply again you would see that the effects of puberty blockers are mostly reversible.
I didn’t misinterpret what you said, I was extending from it and asking a question about the topic at the same time. I don’t actually know what “gender affirming care” consists of, Hence my comment.
Gender affirming care, for minors, is about 2 things.
Helping them figure out what is actually going on.
Stopping difficult or irreversible changes.
The first is exactly what you want. It’s helping the children figure out exactly what they feel. It might also involve changing outward appearance (clothing etc) to see how it feels. Basically get their head straight with what they really want and feel.
The second is mostly puberty blockers. Puberty makes irreversible changes to the body. Blocking it doesn’t do any harm. It’s been used for decades to help with other conditions. When the blockers are removed, puberty proceeds normally. If the patient truly wants to transition, then an artificial puberty can be induced. This is far safer and more effective than surgery to fix things later.
No one is chopping up children.
I’m gay. I wasn’t sure when I was a teenager but I suspected. I never felt like I was the wrong sex.