Please explain to me how their narrative is simplistic and have nothing to do with reality.
In case you don’t know history, Palestine has been predominately Muslim since the 12th century. In 1800 there were 2000 Jews living there, to 246000 Muslims. In 90 years, there was 43000 Jewish people. 1922, 84000 Jews to 589000 Muslims. 1931 - 175000 Jews to 760000 Muslims
Then came 1947 and magically 630000 Jews to 1181000 Muslims. Then during Nakba, 750000 Palestinians were thrown out from their homes. 55% of Palestine was assigned to less than 30% of population, a population that literally wasn’t there 150 years before. Israel then took 78% of the land, ignoring the UN.
So people who previously owned 7% of the land and consisting of 30% of the population, got the larger half of all of the territory, 2/3rds of the coastline, then took even more of it.
Israel is not committing a genocide. There are >2,000,000 people in Gaza and 43,000 have been killed, half of which were Hamas fighters. And yet, Israel has been fighting in Gaza for over a year. If they wanted to kill all or most Gazans, the death toll would be much, much higher. It’s a war, so of course there are war crimes happening. People are people. But genocide and commission of war crimes is not the policy of the Israeli government. On the other hand, Hamas deliberately commits war crimes as a matter of policy.
If you want to go all the way back to 1948 and say that Israel should not have been created in the first place, I don’t have a good argument against that. But fast-forward to today and Israel is now spear-won territory. Israel fought off the combined Arab armies of the region five times and those Arab countries no longer wish to fight. Israel is a fact on the ground and isn’t going anywhere. The only rational outcome at this point is a two-state solution. There are two reasons it hasn’t happened yet: 1) the religious element (on both sides), and 2) Iran, which funds and foments radical Islamist groups for its own reasons.
Israel will do whatever they have to do in order to prevent another massacre like October 7, and they can only do that by destroying Hamas’s ability to wage war. I think Israel is doing a great job ensuring that Hamas can’t attack them again. Palestinians may have cheered Hamas on October 8, but I guarantee that average Palestinians now want Hamas gone and to never return. So, I think Hamas is also politically finished.
Palestinians will not truly be free until the theocratic regime in Iran is gone and the Palestinians decide to stop attacking Israel, and then Israel will agree to a two-state solution. That’s the only realistic hope for peace and full statehood for the Palestinians.
Imagine supporting literal nazis. If you ever thought you were a good person - right now shows you aren’t. You are a genocide apologist. Countless orgs deemed it a genocide - including the UN and Amnesty International. You are naive if you think Israel will stop. But there is no point in arguing with a zionist.
I don’t think you know what the word “literal” means. But anyway, we disagree about how to categorize what is happening in Israel, and possibly what the solution might be, but I don’t think you are a bad person because of it. I don’t even know you. But I hope you have a good day.
Please explain to me how their narrative is simplistic and have nothing to do with reality.
In case you don’t know history, Palestine has been predominately Muslim since the 12th century. In 1800 there were 2000 Jews living there, to 246000 Muslims. In 90 years, there was 43000 Jewish people. 1922, 84000 Jews to 589000 Muslims. 1931 - 175000 Jews to 760000 Muslims Then came 1947 and magically 630000 Jews to 1181000 Muslims. Then during Nakba, 750000 Palestinians were thrown out from their homes. 55% of Palestine was assigned to less than 30% of population, a population that literally wasn’t there 150 years before. Israel then took 78% of the land, ignoring the UN.
So people who previously owned 7% of the land and consisting of 30% of the population, got the larger half of all of the territory, 2/3rds of the coastline, then took even more of it.
Israel is not committing a genocide. There are >2,000,000 people in Gaza and 43,000 have been killed, half of which were Hamas fighters. And yet, Israel has been fighting in Gaza for over a year. If they wanted to kill all or most Gazans, the death toll would be much, much higher. It’s a war, so of course there are war crimes happening. People are people. But genocide and commission of war crimes is not the policy of the Israeli government. On the other hand, Hamas deliberately commits war crimes as a matter of policy.
If you want to go all the way back to 1948 and say that Israel should not have been created in the first place, I don’t have a good argument against that. But fast-forward to today and Israel is now spear-won territory. Israel fought off the combined Arab armies of the region five times and those Arab countries no longer wish to fight. Israel is a fact on the ground and isn’t going anywhere. The only rational outcome at this point is a two-state solution. There are two reasons it hasn’t happened yet: 1) the religious element (on both sides), and 2) Iran, which funds and foments radical Islamist groups for its own reasons.
Israel will do whatever they have to do in order to prevent another massacre like October 7, and they can only do that by destroying Hamas’s ability to wage war. I think Israel is doing a great job ensuring that Hamas can’t attack them again. Palestinians may have cheered Hamas on October 8, but I guarantee that average Palestinians now want Hamas gone and to never return. So, I think Hamas is also politically finished.
Palestinians will not truly be free until the theocratic regime in Iran is gone and the Palestinians decide to stop attacking Israel, and then Israel will agree to a two-state solution. That’s the only realistic hope for peace and full statehood for the Palestinians.
Imagine supporting literal nazis. If you ever thought you were a good person - right now shows you aren’t. You are a genocide apologist. Countless orgs deemed it a genocide - including the UN and Amnesty International. You are naive if you think Israel will stop. But there is no point in arguing with a zionist.
I don’t think you know what the word “literal” means. But anyway, we disagree about how to categorize what is happening in Israel, and possibly what the solution might be, but I don’t think you are a bad person because of it. I don’t even know you. But I hope you have a good day.
There is no “debate” here or “agree to disagree”. You are a genocide denier, plain and simple. You don’t have a moral highground here.