Yes it is embarrassing, yes other countries have similar issues, yes propaganda was and is very good at sowing dissent, and yes it does appear that we argue more when tensions are high.

After watching the debate, it’s natural for many of us on the left to feel a little queasy about voting for Biden. The man’s time has long since passed. It makes sense that many would feel compelled to vocalize their reluctance while still voting for him.

I will vote for Biden, but this whole situation is a shit show and I worry for the future of the country. Hopefully the DNC can get their shit together and drum up some solid candidates moving forward because the republicans show no sign of moving away from the far right.

100% both RDR2 and breath of the wild.

Chill, I conceded that $5 might be good in bumfuck Indiana. I didn’t call you stingy. I more or less just said that $5 seemed kinda low in this economy.

I am really only pushing the merits of the flat rate for delivery and percentage for dine in. The dollar amount of that flat rate can certainly be location adjusted.

I’ve noticed a lot of coffee shops have flat dollar amount tip suggestions lately, not percentage based. Your local pizza joint should try this.

That said, in bumfuck Indiana they probably are only delivering one or two pizzas an hour on average, so maybe $5 is stingy (:

Don’t take that last part too seriously, it is intended as a comical statement.

I’m sure you’re right, those pizza delivery millionaires have us all fooled, but not you my friend.

In all seriousness… if $12/hour after expenses is a livable wage in bumfuck Indiana then that is not representative of the rest of the US.

There are only like 5 companies now so the free market is broken.

They collude to keep us poor enough to not revolt, but ‘rich’ enough to keep buying their crappy products.

If they take everything we have we won’t have anything left to give them. It’s a delicate balance that they seem to have mastered as they write our legislation.

Tipping is just another way for the corporations to reduce the overhead by having the customer pay the wages of the employee directly, reducing both the budget for salaries and also the reducing ancillary expenses like unemployment insurance and employer wage withholding, occupational privilege tax, etc.

Also, I like being called a yank. It feels old timey and kind of makes me think of masturbation.

The labor market is so fucked we have phd’s competing for a job at McDonald’s.

While the dollar amount I suggested is particularly applicable to metro / high col areas, the concept still applies. The same expense/effort on behalf of the driver exists for a $30 delivery as with a $130 delivery.

The same cannot be said for dine in.

Flat rate for delivery, percentage based for dine in is a sensible solution which I didn’t come up with myself. More sensible of course is fair pay which negates tipping altogether but we aren’t there yet.

If small town Indiana is a particularly low cost of living area then maybe $4 is a fair tip. But where I am from, $4 doesn’t last five seconds anymore.

If it takes them 20 minutes to bring you your pizza, then go back to the shop, then at best they are making $12 per hour minus the mileage and gas and other expenses they incur driving their own vehicle… it’s a real shit job that can only be made better by decent tippers, until such a time comes that tipping is abolished (I won’t hold my breath).

When that happens, if they raise it high enough to actually do away with tipping, then that’s great. Until then, hard working poor people need their tips.

I exist within the system. If I want a service which customarily involves a tip, that’s a part of what I signed up for.

Show me the legislation to abolish tipping while requiring employers to pay a fair wage and I’ll sign it.

Until then, if one wishes to receive a food delivery in the US, It’s sort of implied that you agreed to tip.

Giving a shit tip to a hard working poor person because you don’t like the tipping system isn’t the solution imo.

I’m not beating you, take it easy.

Ask some delivery drivers in any major metro / high COL area in the US.

Flat rate tipping for delivery is a lot more common than you might think; things have changed in the last 4 years.

I’ll put it this way… for dine in tipping, 20% is fine. If you order a cheap meal by yourself at a restaurant, that $4 tip on a $20 meal is fine. The server probably didn’t have to spend more than a few minutes with you.

If you are a table of 5 with a bunch of drinks and a $200 tab, the server probably earned their 20% of $40.

For delivery, a flat rate makes more sense. If someone delivers 3 pizzas and some wings for $100, did that take much more effort than delivering 1 pizza for $20? Same number of steps taken, miles driven, gas used, time used, etc.

$8 to $10 makes sense for doorstep delivery in todays economy. $5 was fair pre-pandemic.

If you are getting a whole bunch of stuff delivered then I can see justifying a bigger tip, but probably not percentage based.

A $4 tip on delivery means the driver is taking a loss or maybe breaking even. They shouldn’t have to suffer because you had a small order.

The service you receive for delivery is not as directly correlated with the total ticket amount as much as dine in might be.

$18 is a bit much, but I have 10 downvotes that say $8 is too much, so who am I to judge.

Jokes on you… the delivery fee doesn’t go to the driver. Only the tip goes to the driver. That’s how fucked up this whole situation is.

Yup. I deliberately avoid this place now and I am getting better at planning ahead so I am not in the position where I need to rely on overpriced delivery.

You want to slap me because I wanted pizza and then I also wanted the person who drove the pizza to my apartment to also be able to afford pizza?

I don’t condone the system, this is simply the pizza system that exists where I live.

I wish I lived in a country where this was the case.

They are paid a base minimum wage plus tips to drive their own vehicle around all day, paying for their gas, insurance, frequent oil changes and tire wear, putting miles on their car further depreciating the value… the whole point of being a driver is for the tips. Even when people tip well the drivers are mostly taking a loss with the usage of their own cars.

In the USA the delivery drivers live off of the tips… it’s not just high school kids working a summer job. A lot of drivers are working a second job to support their families.

If you live in a major metro area in an apartment building, gain yourself a reputation for tipping decently and you won’t have to leave your apartment. Tip poorly and you will have to meet them down on the street.

It’s not something I voted for, this social contract existed long before I was here.

If I had a vote to abolish the tip system, I would. In the meantime I make sure to tip decently so that the person who gave me service can keep a roof over their head.

Yes, that is correct.

Also the drivers use their own personal vehicles so they experience all the extra wear and tear, fuel costs, more frequent tire and oil changes, etc.

It really is unfair which I why I make sure to tip decently.

I didn’t say I like it, I just said that is the right thing to do.

Someone drove you some hot food and you give them $4? You’re like Steve Buscemi in reservoir dogs.