It’s literally not smoke, that’s what I’m saying. It’s fucking water vapor. There’s no harm, and it’s literally undetectable aside from a brief smell of whatever it’s flavored with.
Equating vapes with tobacco is so stupid. There is zero (0) tobacco in a vape.
The other stuff in vape clouds is such an infinitesimally small amount, it’s really not worth considering. On the order of like <400 migrograms per gram of vape cloud, with the average vape cloud mass being <100mg
The scientific failings of nearly all research into e-cigs is a big pet peeve of mine. So, so many studies with abstracts and titles shouting VAPES WILL LITERALLY KILL YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN IF YOU LOOK AT THEM and then when you dig into the results it’s less harmful than ambient air in a Walmart.
Only up to 100 mg? Such a tiny amount of substance could never have an impact on a human body! That’s why when I take a 50 mg edible absolutely nothing happens.
You are delusional, and completely misinterpreting that study and Wikipedia. Like, reading your other comment you did a “lot of work” on - I’m kind of amazed - it reminds me of the kind of stuff that I’d see to back up Ivermectin being a miracle cure.
You have an addiction and are doing something that is harmful to your body. There is not an evil conspiracy by the government and research scientists to convince you that nicotine is bad for you, nicotine is bad for you.
can you explain the concepts of p-value and statistical significance for me?
Literally irrelevant to the point I’m making.
Also, do things existing at less than 0.04 mg have no effect on the human body?
In almost every case, that’s correct.
Keep in mind that’s also the strongest measured concentration of the biggest clouds in the whole study, and that assumes instead of passively breathing in someone else’s vape cloud, they’re just breathing the whole thing right into your mouth. Realistic amounts of chemicals would be an order or two magnitude lower.
Dude I’m talking about smoke from vapes as in vape cloud, mist, whatever you wanna call it. It’s still secondhand, and it still lingers in the air long enough for other people to breathe it in. I can tell when someone took a hit even if I didn’t see them puff it because it doesn’t just straight up disappear immediately and like 99% is like cotton candy or some other sweet flavor that is super distinctive in smell. If you ever lived in cali you’d know exactly what I’m talking about. Obviously it doesn’t stay for years or anything, hell it usually clears up after like a couple of minutes at worst, but to say it’s undetectable is just false.
I’m obviously not talking about the same smoke as tobacco, that shit is like tar and reeks for years. I’m also not saying there’s tobacco in vapes, I just said the reason why we don’t allow smoking inside is because of tobacco, and for good reason.
And my point is that vaping isn’t smoking and shouldn’t be subject to the same ban. Vaping doesn’t leave residue or discolor walls or any of the other nasty shit that tobacco does. The vape cloud doesn’t linger like smoke. And secondhand vaping isn’t even a thing, it’s like secondhand breathing. It’s just flavored water vapor, there’s no other chemicals or stuff in the cloud.
Edit: no other chemicals at harmful levels, technically there’s an almost imperceptibly small amount of stuff in there but it’s roughly equivalent to ambient air in a city
That crazy myth needs to die. Nicotine is approximately as harmful as caffeine. Highly addictive but not particularly harmful itself. Tobacco and all the chemicals they put in cigarettes are the stuff that gives you cancer.
In normal cells, nicotine can stimulate properties consistent with cell transformation and the early stages of cancer formation, such as increased cell proliferation, decreased cellular dependence on the extracellular matrix for survival, and decreased contact inhibition. Thus, the induced activation of nAChRs in lung and other tissues by nicotine can promote carcinogenesis by causing DNA mutations. Through its tumor promoter effects, it acts synergistically with other carcinogens from automobile exhausts or wood burning and potentially shorten the induction period of cancers.
Ooh boy, it’s time to link to my favorite “I did a lot of work and no one responded” pair of posts, with a deep dive into how the NIH and other offices’ claims about nicotine are utter bullshit and a great example of the failures of the modern scientific apparatus: https://lemmy.world/post/16434400/10677530
My favorite parts:
There’s stuff like this heart.org result, which exclusively talk about “smoking and nicotine”. These types of articles are dangerous in and of themselves because they require a level of critical thinking to separate out “smoking” and “nicotine”. A lot of anti-vaping hit pieces have a top-level title talking about nicotine, but then the body of the article references negative effects that are exclusive to smoking. Here’s one such hit piece, run by a dystopian-sounding group called the “Truth Initiative” which should immediately make anyone suspicious of their goals. Note the article is under topic “harmful effects of tobacco”, subtopic “nicotine addiction”.
So like, they took the high end of that study they referenced, increased it a little, used that as the low end of their study, made their high end 4 times that, and then gave that amount to a fucking mouse injected with a human tumor. And then did it again, 5 more times a day. And then said that “mimicked the daily intakes of cigarettes in smokers”. HAH.
Side note: see how incestuous this all is? We have a study of studies (NIH) referencing a study of studies (Jensen) referencing a study of studies (Chowdhury), referencing…nothing at all.
I saw a great long-form article with a theory that I don’t completely buy into but is very interesting.
In 1998, a MASSIVE lawsuit against the tobacco companies was settled. The result was the Master Settlement Agreement (MSA). Due to the harmful public health effects of tobacco, cigarette companies were required to pay huge sums to the state governments, in perpetuity, based on the level of sales of cigarettes. To be clear, this was a great and reasonable idea, given the public health costs associated with smoking (funny enough, since then, costs have lowered on average as people live longer but smokers don’t).
Several states then “securitized” their future payments and sold them off to get short-term injections of cash. If the term “securitization” seems familiar, it’s the craze that led to the financial collapse in 2008, when people were securitizing junk mortgages. As part of these tobacco bond securitization agreements, states have to pay their business partners a certain dollar amount every year going forward, NOT based on the level of sales of cigarettes.
Then, for a variety of reasons including vaping, cigarette sales started to tank. Meaning states were getting less money from the MSA, but they still owed the same amount to their debtors. Many of these bonds are in junk status, and some states are realistically looking at bankruptcy due to that stupid decision 20 years ago. There’s $97 billion they owe in total, and most states have no way to pay it.
So now we have a large number of state governments with an extremely powerful financial incentive to suppress vaping and encourage cigarette smoking.
This is no different from being an anti-vaxxer or Ivermectin nut. You are selectively reading bits of studies that you are not understanding, and do not have basic knowledge of how statistics or the human body work.
You think that cloud of smoke coming out of people’s mouth is oil?
I don’t care about vapes, but not everyone wants secondhand smoke
Shit lingers for a while too
There’s a reason why we did away with the tobacco designated areas in buildings, the same applies to vapes
It’s literally not smoke, that’s what I’m saying. It’s fucking water vapor. There’s no harm, and it’s literally undetectable aside from a brief smell of whatever it’s flavored with.
Equating vapes with tobacco is so stupid. There is zero (0) tobacco in a vape.
Are you in middle school?
It’s not water vapor.
The other stuff in vape clouds is such an infinitesimally small amount, it’s really not worth considering. On the order of like <400 migrograms per gram of vape cloud, with the average vape cloud mass being <100mg
Wikipedia
Study that I was able to access through my university
The scientific failings of nearly all research into e-cigs is a big pet peeve of mine. So, so many studies with abstracts and titles shouting VAPES WILL LITERALLY KILL YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN IF YOU LOOK AT THEM and then when you dig into the results it’s less harmful than ambient air in a Walmart.
Only up to 100 mg? Such a tiny amount of substance could never have an impact on a human body! That’s why when I take a 50 mg edible absolutely nothing happens.
You are delusional, and completely misinterpreting that study and Wikipedia. Like, reading your other comment you did a “lot of work” on - I’m kind of amazed - it reminds me of the kind of stuff that I’d see to back up Ivermectin being a miracle cure.
Since you seem very concerned with dosage:
Secondhand smoke is also harmful:
You have an addiction and are doing something that is harmful to your body. There is not an evil conspiracy by the government and research scientists to convince you that nicotine is bad for you, nicotine is bad for you.
Oh Christ on a cracker, I don’t have time to explain how math works
The entire cloud, water vapor and all, is up to 100mg, dumbass. It’s like 0.04mg of chemicals in the biggest vape clouds. That’s nothing.
Can you read that middle study for me friendo?
I know you don’t have time to explain how math works, but can you explain the concepts of p-value and statistical significance for me?
Also, do things existing at less than 0.04 mg have no effect on the human body?
Literally irrelevant to the point I’m making.
In almost every case, that’s correct.
Keep in mind that’s also the strongest measured concentration of the biggest clouds in the whole study, and that assumes instead of passively breathing in someone else’s vape cloud, they’re just breathing the whole thing right into your mouth. Realistic amounts of chemicals would be an order or two magnitude lower.
You are right but you still will be stoned for saying the truth. Those ppl probably breathe in much more harmful shit daily without second thoughts
This comment section makes me want to start to vape again
Dude I’m talking about smoke from vapes as in vape cloud, mist, whatever you wanna call it. It’s still secondhand, and it still lingers in the air long enough for other people to breathe it in. I can tell when someone took a hit even if I didn’t see them puff it because it doesn’t just straight up disappear immediately and like 99% is like cotton candy or some other sweet flavor that is super distinctive in smell. If you ever lived in cali you’d know exactly what I’m talking about. Obviously it doesn’t stay for years or anything, hell it usually clears up after like a couple of minutes at worst, but to say it’s undetectable is just false.
I’m obviously not talking about the same smoke as tobacco, that shit is like tar and reeks for years. I’m also not saying there’s tobacco in vapes, I just said the reason why we don’t allow smoking inside is because of tobacco, and for good reason.
And my point is that vaping isn’t smoking and shouldn’t be subject to the same ban. Vaping doesn’t leave residue or discolor walls or any of the other nasty shit that tobacco does. The vape cloud doesn’t linger like smoke. And secondhand vaping isn’t even a thing, it’s like secondhand breathing. It’s just flavored water vapor, there’s no other chemicals or stuff in the cloud.
Edit: no other chemicals at harmful levels, technically there’s an almost imperceptibly small amount of stuff in there but it’s roughly equivalent to ambient air in a city
Yes but there IS nicotine in most vapes, which is the harmful part
That crazy myth needs to die. Nicotine is approximately as harmful as caffeine. Highly addictive but not particularly harmful itself. Tobacco and all the chemicals they put in cigarettes are the stuff that gives you cancer.
[…]
Ooh boy, it’s time to link to my favorite “I did a lot of work and no one responded” pair of posts, with a deep dive into how the NIH and other offices’ claims about nicotine are utter bullshit and a great example of the failures of the modern scientific apparatus: https://lemmy.world/post/16434400/10677530
My favorite parts:
Yes my sweet child - that is called a meta-analysis.
Yeah no fucking shit, Sherlock
They hated him because he spoke the truth
be me, sneaking outside at work to vape while my coworker brings a literal gallon of coffee everyday.
nicotine certainly has been demonized in the last few decades.
I saw a great long-form article with a theory that I don’t completely buy into but is very interesting.
In 1998, a MASSIVE lawsuit against the tobacco companies was settled. The result was the Master Settlement Agreement (MSA). Due to the harmful public health effects of tobacco, cigarette companies were required to pay huge sums to the state governments, in perpetuity, based on the level of sales of cigarettes. To be clear, this was a great and reasonable idea, given the public health costs associated with smoking (funny enough, since then, costs have lowered on average as people live longer but smokers don’t).
Several states then “securitized” their future payments and sold them off to get short-term injections of cash. If the term “securitization” seems familiar, it’s the craze that led to the financial collapse in 2008, when people were securitizing junk mortgages. As part of these tobacco bond securitization agreements, states have to pay their business partners a certain dollar amount every year going forward, NOT based on the level of sales of cigarettes.
Then, for a variety of reasons including vaping, cigarette sales started to tank. Meaning states were getting less money from the MSA, but they still owed the same amount to their debtors. Many of these bonds are in junk status, and some states are realistically looking at bankruptcy due to that stupid decision 20 years ago. There’s $97 billion they owe in total, and most states have no way to pay it.
So now we have a large number of state governments with an extremely powerful financial incentive to suppress vaping and encourage cigarette smoking.
This is a conspiracy theory.
This is no different from being an anti-vaxxer or Ivermectin nut. You are selectively reading bits of studies that you are not understanding, and do not have basic knowledge of how statistics or the human body work.
Like I said, I don’t fully buy into it, but the facts are incontrovertible and it’s a fairly compelling argument.