There’s this rising narrative going around that if you ask specifically for a CIS partner, you’re a transphobe. That could be true for some people but it’s not fundamentally related to bigotry. Moreover, this narrative, the “if you only want a CIS mate then that is prejudice” is trampling on one of the most important rights a person can have: the right to choose who they want to get intimate with.
First of all, transmen are in fact men and transwomen are in fact women. Let’s get that out of the way. This isn’t a foot in the door for “trans this really isn’t that” narratives. What this is about it is the freedom to choose who you want to be intimate with. That right is sancrosanct, it is absolutely inviolable.
And yes, there’s plenty of issues that make transgender dating a special issue. If someone reveals their TG status they can be open to hate crimes and even deadly violence. However all marginalized groups are special in their own way. As a black man I don’t think it’s racist if a woman says she doesn’t want to date a black man. I face oppression, too. My class is special in its own way. One group isn’t more special than the other. None of us have the right to force ourselves upon those who don’t want to be intimate with us, even by omitting who we really are.
Really, if you have to deceive or hide who you are in order to date someone, do you really want to date them? I wouldn’t. That’s not fair to you and you’re denying them their right to choose who they want. What do you think will happen when the person wants a CIS mate and they discover the truth? They’re going to get pissed and dump you. Now you have to shame them into staying with you: “If you loved me for real this wouldn’t bother you”… that’s not going to convince anyone. They’re either going to leave, or they’ll resent you forever. That’s just how it is. You can be mad at that but that’s about as effective as protesting the rising of the sun. There’s just no way to win once you’ve gone down that road.
“I want a CIS mate” is not the same as “trans women are not women” - one is a preference, the other is harmful prejudice. On the flip side CIS people who do date trans people shouldn’t be shamed for their choices either. A man should be free to date a trans woman and not catch flak about it. Trans people should be able to be openly trans and not face hate speech or threats to their well-being. This, without any exception whatsoever.
The fundamental fact is when you shame or worse abrogate people’s right to choose who they want to get intimate with, it’s not going to end well for you. All you’re going to get is people who resent being coerced or bullied to date people they don’t want to. And that’s not something the country, or the world, will ever put up with. Except that right now, most people don’t imagine they can be labeled a transphobe just for wanting a CIS mate. And unpopular opinion: that should be nipped in the bud.
I’m a transwoman and I agree with you on this. When I was dating, I was upfront and when a guy said it was a deal breaker, it saved both of us a lot of time.
Most guys I talked to said it was a dealbreaker, and yeah it sucks. It makes you feel “othered.” But I can’t expect anyone to go outside their sexual comfort zone for a rando on Tinder.
Most of the guys were very polite about it all, too. And that’s all you should need to do.
If someone’s shaming you about it, that’s a good sign they have something going on in their own life. Essentially it’s their problem, not yours.
Hope this helps~
Man I guess I’m a bigot, and I’m frustrated about it.
I get the phrase “transwomen are women” and respect that perspective.
But if I were seeking a cis woman partner who is seeking a cis man, it would be a dealbreaker if they were trans.
So I’m confronted with the reality that if I want to believe trans women are women, I shouldn’t be able to hold my second opinion, but it feels like one that can’t budge.
How to reconcile?
It’s because you can’t change your sexuality. Being attracted only to CIS women is your sexuality.
That’s not how sexuality works.
Are you attracted to every single woman that exists?
If not, then it is fine to not find certain groups of women not to your preferences without needing to define them as not women.
No, it’s not that I need to label anyone, but in the decision tree of selection, biological, born sexual features is right at the beginning. The character of those features is lower, obviously below personality and mental characteristics. But for example I’d like to have a child, so I need to seek out partners with whom that can possibly happen.
So it isn’t that I’m just like, grading people, it’s that some things are impossible or immoveable
Again this is just me, not attempting to impact anyone else’s path
As many of the other comments have pointed out, that’s not bigotry, as long as you respect their right to exist and aren’t looking down on them
How to reconcile?
LOL you don’t. “Transwomen are women (except when I am choosing a mate, then I can be selective)”
Clarification: are you calling me out for inconsistency?
So I’m confronted with the reality that if I want to believe trans women are women, I shouldn’t be able to hold my second opinion, but it feels like one that can’t budge.
You called yourself out.
I’m not calling myself out, I’m exploring a personal facet.
I believe picking a mate is a 100% choice environment. I personally (as the subject of the example) am seeking a bio, cis woman.
The point of the thread is how to indicate your mate preference without being hurtful.
I dont think it’s bigoted to not seek a transgender mate, but am open to conversation on that. I can understand putting a “no trans” label on a profile can seem hurtful, even when the intention is anything but.
Your second statement (except for when I’m choosing a mate) seems reasonable. Is it not?
I’m not degrading trans women, I’m simply specifying the particulars of my search, which goes beyond “trans women are women”
I personally (as the subject of the example) am seeking a bio, cis woman.
Ah, so you’re saying “no trans”
I can understand putting a “no trans” label on a profile can seem hurtful
Yes, people will feel excluded by this
I’m not degrading trans women
Correct, you are just saying that they aren’t sexually attractive to you and you assign higher sexual market value to cis women and that you see trans women and cis women as different
And shouldn’t everyone individually assess their own "sexual market value"s, and be free to do so?
This is an “own” valuation, you aren’t valuing a whole group of people as “less than” you’re just valuing your own matches.
It’s not that I’m too good for any one in particular, just looking for certain varieties of humans to date
Thank you for your response. I feel I must repeat in case it is ambiguous: I am absolutely against any form of trans shaming whatsoever. If you want to date a trans person, you should be 100% free to do so without negative social consequence.
Not ambiguous. You’re good 😜
Oh boy do I have a load of dumb questions, if you’ll humor me? For context, I’m a middle-aged, cis, white guy. Dated a lot the last few years, settled down and just married the finest woman I’ve ever known.
What does “transwoman” mean? LOL, I don’t even know how to approach this. For me, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it’s a duck, good enough. I’d date a transwoman that was, uh, “completely” a woman. Gods I hope you know what I mean.
OK, I’ll go with my wife, maybe clear it up. She’s a Filipina, unapologetically feminine. All else being the same, if she had been born with a penis, wouldn’t care. Among 100 other things, I so love her femininity.
Am I embarrassing myself? Sure feels like it. Never had any trans friends, or even known any trans folks. Anyhow, I hope you understand I’m on your side, all the way. (That’s not a cutesy slogan. I train, I carry, I mean it with all my heart. If it comes to it, no one is going on a train if I can help it.)
Locked as transphobia seems to be pretty common in the comments.
If this happens please let me know. I’ve never heard of a trans person saying they don’t tell their partners they’re trans.
Some people may not want to choose to disclose on the first date, depending on the other person’s personality. If there’s nothing there and no second date no harm no foul. If there’s a spark and a wish to take things further I’ve heard (read) many trans people saying they’ll wait until after the date to disclose they’re trans by text to be able to avoid a violent confrontation.
The climate is extremely hostile for trans people right now and people have to worry about their safety.
Who, exactly, is saying that having a sexual preference is bigoted? I’ve heard rumors about this argument, but never encountered it in the wild.
Admittedly it’s been a few years but I had this argument on Reddit and caught a ban from a handful of subs for hate speech for arguing that not wanting a trans partner was not the same thing as being anti trans.
I don’t remember my exact phrasing, I did then and still do believe that trans rights are human rights, that trans people are in real danger at no fault of their own, and that their healthcare is important and should start early. But that doesn’t mean I can be attracted to someone I know is trans, and I think that being trans should be divulged in a relationship, and divulged early.
That’s a viewpoint that some, and I use the term lightly, radical activists don’t want to hear, and will absolutely accuse you of transphobia. That doesn’t mean it’s common, or that the community at large agrees with it. But there are individuals who espouse that nonsense.
Reddit is full of two things. Bigots of every variety and bots. Don’t take social media of any sort as a reflection of reality, it’s not. So much of it is bots designed to create social division now. Then the bigots come out to reply to the bots.
Serious question - you said “But that doesn’t mean I can be attracted to someone I know is trans”
Why is this? Based on what you said wrote here you seemed to be able to be attracted to them before you know they are trans but the moment you find out that they are trans, you no longer are attracted to them.
If you reduce someone down to their features and say I can’t date you bc you have XYZ features, but you are perfect in every other way and just what I am looking for in a woman, but I can’t date you bc of that. How is reducing someone to something that is out of their control not phobic?
My other question is this - post op transwoman, would you still be attracted to her if you knew she had bottom surgery and no longer had a penis?
Personally, I have encountered in an odd situation. Gay dating app, trans woman being friendly, so I was friendly back, but told her I wasn’t interested. She went ballistic, saying how I could live the dream, have a straight looking relationship, that surely a masc guy like me wanted that, and that I could still get dick with her, and when I told her that was not what I was looking for, at all, she went into the rant, calling me transphobic and saying that I was discriminating her.
I just blocked her and I will never be entirely sure if it was a troll or not.
That’s the reverse situation though, isn’t it? You treated her as a woman and said “no thanks, I’m gay” and she responded with “it’s ok, because I have a dick and am basically a man”. Didn’t she just transphobia herself?
Literally nobody is saying this. OP is just doing a transpanic.
The who in question is a man made of straw
Look at the apps, most these days will not permit you to exclude trans from your criteria
How the hell does this have so many downvotes? Surely not from the crowd that preaches consent and freedom of choice?
Nah I’m guessing because it’s a popular opinion
Bc OP reduced someone down to their anatomy. Literally perfect woman and exactly their type is right in front of them. Cute face, slim waist with a big behind… but the only reason you don’t want to date them is bc of their anatomy? That’s the part where it moves across the line.
You have reduced this person down to what’s in their pants and not who they are, their personality, their hobbies, etc… you have reduced them to a feature of their body.
Imagine if someone said I don’t want to date someone with a cleft lip bc if we have kids that could be passed down through genetics.
It’s the same thing here.
Well except you cant have a biological kid to pass down any traits with your selected partner so it’s not the same.
Science has came a long way this hasn’t been true for decades. Just gotta be fine with a surrogate carrying the baby and/or have the $$$
A surrogate literally means they don’t have half the genetic material from one of the partners though and would still rely on a donated egg or sperm. If you want to have a child that is a mix of both partners that is still impossible. And people don’t have the money to drop of they just want a spouse to have kids with.
I’m just saying if someone wanted to do things naturally or with love of their partner, it’s impossible. And thus a reason to have restrictions.
Cause its kinda shallow and why should it be the trans persons problem, not them who cares. Like we could also mandate everyone’s birthday has to be put cause ‘I dont want to date a capricorn’
It just follows the type of idea that its the trans persons ‘problem’
But yeah still why the down votes dont we upvote unpopular opnions
I have never run into this, honestly. I would assume if you are looking for a possible sexual relationship, that a person’s sexual preference matters. Not to say gender is not important, but sex also is in this instance. If you expect a dick and get a clit, that’s going to be a bit of a let-down, no matter how much you are romantically attracted to the person. I think it’s mature to have this conversation early in the relationship. More people need to understand that you can discuss this kind of stuff like adults and well, if you’re someone looking for a certain type of partner, there should not be shame attached to it.
Fuck I’m trans and I agree with you
You should, of course, have your preferences, and your deal-breakers, and whatever else. So if you find someone you are interested in is trans, and that’s a deal-breaker for you, that’s fine.
But there is a difference between that and putting in your bio “No Trans People.” Is being trans your only deal-breaker? What makes that a deal-breaker worth calling out, but not others? Before you put “No Trans” in your profile, I would ask you to consider that, if you are an athletic person and want an athletic person, would “No fat women” be something you would feel comfortable putting in your bio (even if that was a deal-breaker for you)? What would you think of someone who puts “No black people” in their bio?
If they have any sense, they will let you know either in their profile, in conversation before-hand, or during the first date or so (before things get intimate), and you can politely end things, just like if you found out they were Scientologists or several levels up in an MLM (or both). Hell, it may take until a third date, like finding out they don’t just like, but can relate to Olivia Rodrigo’s music. (In fairness, those three were objectively bad, but I don’t know any of your non-trans related preferences, so I had to go with some things most people should consider deal-breakers).
The point is, people look for and look out for a lot of things, but I only ever hear people complain about it being rude to put “No trans.” It kind of makes it clear that the person saying it has a particular issue beyond just dating preferences.
Before you put “No Trans” in your profile, I would ask you to consider that, if you are an athletic person and want an athletic person, would “No fat women” be something you would feel comfortable putting in your bio (even if that was a deal-breaker for you)?
I can see if someone is overweight, of a certain skin color or whatever other visible indicators you mention, and simply not like their profile, so a match would not occur.
I cannot (necessarily) see if someone is trans, so a match would potentially still happen.
So mentioning the “obvious” can be seen as harmful since you are effectively calling people out, while mentioning the “invisible” is merely stating a preference to reduce false positives.
Tact does matter. That is why I say “seeking cis man/woman” is better than “no trans man/woman”. “No black people” is bad, “prefer SWM/SWF” is better and acceptable IMO (disclaimer: I’m black), “looking for athletic man/woman” is better than “no fat people”, etc., just my opinion.
I take your point, and agree. The positive (as opposed to the “No xxxx”) seems generally to be more polite.
You can change your weight. You can’t change who you are. Lesbians don’t want men. People not attracted to trans people cannot just chose to be attracted to them. And I have no oreferencws but do understand that sexuality is not something you chose.
Every single thing you’ve said demands specific rebuttal. But I think it would be exhausting and you’re not worth it.
Nearly everything you compare is actually a visible trait, where being trans isn’t. Nobody’s going to be tricked into dating anybody they don’t want when all the attributes are visible up-front. I can SEE if somebody is athletic. I can SEE if somebody is black. I can SEE if somebody is obese.
Quit pretending there’s something wrong with having preferences. You’re delusional and you have no right to pretend that anybody owes anybody anything except honesty up-front in a dating context.
You actually think somebody who is not interested in a trans person OWES a trans person a date “just in case”. Frankly, get your head out of your ass.
Hey can we please be civil here?
Lol, they’re a transphobe. Being civil isn’t a strong suit for that kind of person.
Many women already put “over 6 foot only” or “only swipe if you have abs” so why not let people filter out what they don’t want before wasting time and money and emotion on a date and talking
And they are wrong for that as well. That sounds like someone I wouldn’t want to be friends with or date bc they reduced someone down to their body parts and not who they are as a person.
Abs do not define someone, abs don’t make someone a better person or have a better personality.
would “No fat women” be something you would feel comfortable putting in your bio (even if that was a deal-breaker for you)?
Why not? Women can put “no short people/manlets” why can’t I put “no fatties/giantesses?” I fail to see how they differ.
And that makes them bigots as well. This is not a this or that. If someone says attracted to men but no short people, they are also a cunt of a person and probably not someone you want to date.
If I am attracted to you, then it does not matter height, weight, etc…
Neither are acceptable, especially when it’s propagating ugly labels. All of it is really unnecessary. Swipe left on people you aren’t attracted to, and if you talk to someone and find a dealbreaker, politely disengage without making them feel shitty or othered. It really isn’t that difficult.
Neither are acceptable
One is a lot more acceptable than the other by society’s standards and that is exactly the problem actually.
You may be right, but if someone writes “no trans people” or “no d*cks smaller than 25cm” or “no crybabies” or “no n*ggers”, then if you are some of the mentioned, you wouldn’t want to communicate to that person anyway. If you are not, then you still likely wouldn’t.
It’s a natural flow of communication in my opinion. Let people write what they want.
This isn’t a first amendment issue, or an issue of what people should be allowed to say. It’s a question of etiquette, and not being rude. The thing is, saying each of those things would drive away more than just those specifically excluded.
To give a better example, if I were on a dating site and saw a woman who said “No guys under 6 ft,” and I were taller than 6 ft, I still wouldn’t want anything to do with that woman. It give a completely different vibe, however, to say “I really like tall guys.” I get, though, that there’s not a positive equivalent for the original question.
What makes that a deal-breaker worth calling out, but not others?
Being trans doesn’t necessarily show outwards unlike being fat would. If I’m looking for a guy that doesn’t automatically mean this includes FTM.
Neither does a micro penis (or serious erectile dysfunction) and that might be a deal breaker for you. But it would still be rude to say “No small dicks, and don’t message me if you can’t get it up.” But is it worth addressing, prior to being intimate? Absolutely.
Maybe people should be direct and stop being afraid to list their preferences because they’re afraid of insulting someone.
So I appreciate you approaching the topic with some care here.
I think with this topic people can be fairly reactive on both sides. This to say: There’s a genuine desire of far-right actual transphobes to exterminate trans people. And from there, trans people tend to get convinced that transphobes are everywhere and transphobia is in everything. People who are systematically victimized have a tendency to argue with moderates because there’s a compulsion to pick the smaller and seemingly more winnable fight… but it tends to have the opposite from the intended reaction. I don’t think this speaks to any bigger truth however.
With that said: No, it’s not transphobic to want to date cis people. I know plenty of trans people who specifically won’t date cis people, so it goes both ways. Curiously, I also know some cis people who only date trans people, and some trans people who only date cis people.
Dude, most dating apps place trans people in a entirely third category. Usually it’s a third box after male/female and I promise, nobody cares if you leave it unchecked. You’re missing out on wonderful, self-realized, adventurous individuals IMHO but nobody is calling you a transphobe simply because you prefer cis women, calm down. You’re exaggerating greatly and absolutely parroting anti-trans hysteria here. Shit like this is exactly why a trans person might not come out on the first date
Doubt you’ve even ever met a trans woman. We don’t want to sleep with you either.
I’m a trans lesbian and it sounds like you spend more time thinking about fucking trans women than I do
The underlying issue is that dating apps just need better filters. An ideal one would be were you could filter out any deal breakers.
I’m 43 male. Can’t I just say I’m straight looking for a woman who is too.
I’m 43 male. Can’t I just say I’m straight looking for a woman who is too.
…a woman who is too 43 male
There’s a difference between having a preference/orientation and outright saying “no trans people” on your profile, imo. The former is totally fine and I think the vast majority of people think the same. If you did the latter, I would definitely remove that. It’s unnecessary and can make people feel shitty. Just swipe left on people you aren’t attracted to, and if you find a dealbreaker while talking to someone, politely disengage.
In general, I find it’s best to avoid putting any kind of negative thing in your bio. Both because you run the risk of making people feel bad for no reason, and because psychologically, you want people to associate you with positive things about you, not the things you dislike. Most people have a lot of dealbreakers that are far too numerous and exhausting to enumerate anyway. Just asses for yourself, and if you don’t like something about someone, move on.
Doesn’t it make people feel bad to talk to a large number of people only to have most of them disengage as soon as they find out you’re trans?
Yes, having something like “no trans people” in someone’s bio is also hurtful, no doubt. But perhaps hurtful interactions (either from seeing something in a bio or from having many disengagements from others) could be avoided by having it be something that can be put into a user’s filter settings?
A better solution might be to just state your preferred genitalia.
Sounds crass but a “strictly dickly” announces the preference without the inherent negative connotations of “no trans please”
I agree, and I believe OP does too, but I read their post as “since we live in a world where trans people can’t 100% feel safe or want to post the fact that they are trans, and we end up dating and I later find out they are trans and I did not want this in a partner, now we’ve wasted everyone’s time when it could have been addressed from the get-go.” I believe OP is trying to discuss what the best way of putting this preference on your profile without straight up saying “no trans people”.
Am I weird in that I think it’s weird to announce that kind of thing on a dating profile? Like, I’m on all the dating apps and people generally don’t get access to me until there’s a mutual agreement to match, right? Unless you’re swiping on everyone or they’re actively trying to hide it, are you matching with a lot of trans folk? Are you so inundated by these matches that you feel the need to announce these preferences up front? I can’t imagine it’s so many that you can’t just have a polite conversation when it comes up and explain the preference? It’s the whole need to announce it, knowing how it could come off, that makes people question the intent. If you were at the bar and someone you’re attracted to comes up to talk, do you stop them and say “before you go any further, know that I only date cis people.”?
Many of your points here are spot on. There’s not a lot of trans people as a percentage of the populace. Maybe like 2-3% tops, so you’re right, you’re not going to run into hordes of trans people while swiping. And many of those do NOT want to hide who they are short term and are loathe to just up and hide it from a date long term. Let’s make it clear there’s no movement to trick people into dating trans people, to *further *derail any right wingers reading this to get their rageohol fix.
You are also right about the etiquette of it all. Tact and timing are important. “Before you go any further I only date cis people” is idiocy. But the fact is a lot of people do not want to date trans people and that’s their right. We have to come to a happy medium where we respect that but (to address your legit and underlying concern) don’t also let this “trans people are everywhere looking to trick us into dating them OMFG RUNNNNN!!” hysteria genie out of the bottle. I am definitely NOT here to foment that.
