Alt Text: post that says dripping testosterone levels in men since 1980s is the biggest crime of the century.
How much do you want to bet that the source is somebody trying to sell some sort of snake oil claiming to boost testosterone.
His tag says he beat testicular cancer and now he help
Def selling something
Yeah I just hate those people who beat cancer then go on to share their findings with the world 🙄
Well that’s interesting as testicular cancer will be closely linked to having testosterone.
Ask your doctor if anabolic steroids are right for you
It’s a terrible graph anyway. The outliers haven’t been removed and I completely don’t understand the line of best fit that’s been drawn because it appears to be squiggly. How can it be squiggly, it’s a line of best fit, it’s an approximation. Oh and making some of the points green does not increase their validity.
You grok there are ways to fit data other than lines right?
I must be unaware of the arbitrary wiggly line of best fit.
Why isn’t this getting more attention?
Um, cause it’s not that big of news and you’re hyping shit just to get clicks.
Masculinity is on the verge of facing extinction
Why isn’t this getting more attention?
Perhaps because masculinity itself isn’t a moral good or requirement for survival? 🤔
As a man, who values his masculinity, actually fuck you and your entire attitude toward me and people like me.
Well you have no idea about “masculinity” given by testosterone implied, eg. Can two women reproduce? Or have the strength of a man?.. and are thinking about “toxic masculinity” a term given to something else
Ah yes, the only two functions, reproduction and opening jars /s
Recently, scientists successfully induced the stem cell of a male mouse to transform into an egg instead of sperm.
The resultant litter was in all respects normal and, while we are talking about baby steps (ha) with mice instead of humans, I’m sure that would be a when, not an if.
The biggest immediate concern would probably be depression and osteoporosis. Pretty sure the depression wouldn’t be very new, sadly, for anyone still paying attention to anything around them at all, but it doesn’t need to be added to the pile for a demographic that already doesn’t tend to reach out.
Ofc you can defy biology and have kids. But then what?
Uh…then you have kids? If you want them? I do not think I understand the question.
I don’t think conveying each other’s opinions is that easy/possible here and impossible to reach some understanding ☮️
No thanks, I’m not gay
Can two women reproduce? Or have the strength of a man?
Yes to both questions.
Then what? Ffs… It’s not like every single species has male and female with specific roles, right? Think about why society has deteriorated… Why families are being destroyed, by divorce rates increased and every single country has birth deficit. Comes back to feminism of women and role problems for Men
It’s economics, not feminism, my guy.
We have less kids as the cost of living rises. Divorce rates for 40+ years have been in decline, the only exception was a small increase during lock-down. Families are being destroyed by economics as well. Most families require two incomes in order to be able to afford raising a child into adulthood. The socially isolating effects of car culture, suburbanization, loss of third places to just hang out, and socialize at, being forced to work 50+ hours a week on top of 10+ hours of commuting. These are all major contributors to the decline in birth rates. The traditional family structure you envision is very likely not even that much older than the the gilded age. Possibly a product of mid last century.
The average employed person creates ~300% more gdp than someone in the 70s. However, compared to the total cost of living, we have seen almost none of that increase in wealth on the side of laborers, and servers. We have seen historic increases in the wealth of the .01% though. Maybe if the workers were cut in on that 300% increase people could afford to have a parent stay home for their children and afford appropriate housing. Maybe if we built more housing, designed cities that are walkable, and designed in a way that generates in-person interactions, we could have nice things like nuclear family structures. Maybe if we have systemic structures to ensure that stay at home parents didn’t end up isolate, and dependent, on the working spouse, being a stay at home parent might look better to a broader range of people.
Beyond this our lives are rapidly becoming more, and more, sedentary. Desk time, for income, is getting to a point where, to afford the cost of living these days, it is exhausting to people and pushes physical activity further, and further, out from your typical daily routine. This, along with a number of other systemic reasons creating the obesity epidemic, is a huge contributor to decline in T levels. The average age of the population increasing also affects the averages of T levels in demographics studies. Then there is the is the, largely unknown, affects that plastics, and the chemicals used to produce them, are having on our bodies. We know things like BPA can affect your endocrine system, however it is not well understood how, yet. This is the new “heavy metals in almost all household products”. We are only just starting to really study what affect this is having on us, and our environment.
But you have been convinced it is to be blamed on women. You ran after the decoy, not the duck.
You wrote something so good and logical. Great actually. I don’t understand why you didn’t understand that I think Man being more Feminine is a problem. Feminism Is Woman saying that they can be a man and better and Don’t need man. You don’t see this impacting our lives in any way? You also don’t see toxic masculinity impacting our lives in any way? By the way divorce rates were higher than 80% in a lot of countries in the EU last year. It’s never going down again…
As an effeminate male, I promise you I don’t need masculinity to reproduce! 😁
But how are you at opening jars (the other benchmark for man)?!
Better than my husband is at it. Still, we do own a battery powered jar opener for extreme situations. It’s the end of civilization.
Under-cabinet jar openers are a great tool to have in the kitchen. They are effective and don’t take up much space. However, they may leave marks on certain materials, so it’s best to avoid using them on reusable water bottles.
THAT’S HOW THE ROBOTS WIN, YOU FOOL!
I simply become outraged that the jar has dared to challenge my manhood and fling them against the wall to assert dominance.
You are the reason divorce rates are ao high 😭
What a thing to get credit for, feeling flattered and powerful!
Damn sexy femboys, destroying marriages.
As “requirement for survival” in modern day and age? Yes, we definitely don’t need it.
In prehistoric times masculinity is the reason why you live and breathe today.
Should what is masculine be redefined to fit today’s era? Hell yeah.
Masculinity is a social construct.
Whatever point you’re trying to make, you’re using the wrong words for it.
Maybe, I’m pretty fucking high, sorry
Valid.
Ah yes, there is definitely no difference between masculinity and femininity, right? Big brain 🧠 Its construct, everything that makes man a Man is a masculinity trait
Ah yes, there is definitely no difference between masculinity and femininity, right?
If you say so, I guess. I don’t really care about the distinction between masculinity and femininity.
Its construct, everything that makes man a Man is a masculinity trait
You’re wrong, though. Both about what makes a man a man, and that you seem to think that masculine is a synonym for man.
A man is a whoever tells me they are a man. If you believe differently, then we can’t be friends.
Masculine/masculinity describes characteristics, not gender or biology.If you still have questions, I encourage you to search online for answers.
I don’t really care about the distinction between masculinity and femininity.
You sure are putting a lot of effort into discussing this thing you don’t care about
Me with high T still able to enjoy colours and musicals 🥰
Whoever drew that wavy line has no idea what a regression is
You are right it just looks like they used Excel + curve fitting.
It’s babbies’ First Excel Sheet 😂
I remember fucking around with the same functionality and not understanding it, some 10 years ago. I guess this dood just found out about it too.
No it’s just R^7 regression! Testosterone levels will be negative by next week!
Edit: and male bodies were approximately 2000% testosterone in the 1940s!
It’s when your T levels regress, duh
if you ever feel down and redundant look at the degrees of freedom in this fit and feel better
A crime, no, concerning sure.
What is causing the drop?
Lots of stuff.
Tld;r:
Obesity, Microplastics, Fewer smokers, Stress and mental health problems, Tighter underwear, Diabetes, Higher indoor temperatures
Wait do people not wear boxer shorts anymore? Did I miss something?
I think boxers are best, but boxer briefs have seemingly taken over.
Having grown up wearing tighty whities, boxer briefs are much looser. I’ve worn boxers as well. In my opinion, there’s not much difference. My boys have plenty of freedom in either.
As I’ve gotten older my balls have started to sag a bit or I’ve gained some weight and get into a weird and uncomfortable position. Been thinking about getting something with more support.
Let the boys hang free
Fewer smokers
Why aren’t we making men smoke more?! Why isn’t the media talking about this?!
Disclaimer: This is a pointless comment.
I watched “My Dinner with Andre” this morning and there’s a line where Wallace Shawn says “… when I was ten years old, […] Now, I’m 36, …“
This guy, 36?I rewound the scene so my wife could watch it when she flitted through the room because I thought the line was so funny.
But then I looked it up. Wallace Shawn was born in 1943, and the movie was released in 1981. Probably filmed the year before release.
I feel mildly bad for thinking it was a humorous line.I don’t know if he smoked, but I’ve heard high testosterone can cause male pattern balding. That aside, the changes to humanity in just a few decades, for whatever reason, are pretty shocking. It’s likely that we have less pollution (that impacts humans, anyway), better understanding of things that harm us, and better access to preventative healthcare, that helps to ‘slow down’ aging.
That sort of makes me feel a little less cynical about folks who keep adjusting life milestones upwards. 30 is the new 20!, 40 isn’t middle aged, etc. I had just figured those folks were vain and delusional. But I do look way better than my dad did at this age, so maybe there’s something to it.Regarding your balding comment, many transmen go bald after starting on testosterone so that makes sense.
I worked with dudes that smoked like it was a job requirement that looked haggard AF at 30. I didn’t recognize one of them 10 years later because he had stopped smoking and dropped a ton of weight - he looked 10 years younger than when I met him.
Smoking is bad, kids. And no, Vaping probably isn’t much better.
More sedentary lifestyle/not exercising
As someone who has severely low testosterone and goes to the gym 4-5 times a week, that’s just one of many potential factors.
It is, I was adding into the list the other guy had started.
Are you implying that societal trends aren’t evidence of crimes?
Worse health in general it seems. And it’s not as low as the graph the person shared
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/declining-testosterone-levels
An aging population.
I love how redundant the degrees of freedom in that curve is “lets make it look like stience”
Boa constrictor of best fit.
My guess is that they want to show a bump after 9/11 when “men went to war for freedom” or some shit.
Yeah, it would have looked better with just a straight line fit. And 2020 does seem “statistically different” than 1970.
Edit: to be clear though, if lower testosterone means I live longer and with more hair, I’m all for it! My kids seem to be normal enough.
Low testosterone can be a real issue. It’ll reduce energy levels and limit bone and muscle strength. The right wing nonsense around it is obscuring some actual issues.
The only crime I see here is the use of SI units! What’s a ng/dl? ::: spoiler /s :::
Idk man after a vasectomy I creampied like 50 women so I would bet that the decline is caused by fear of having children who you have to be responsible for or wind up being a deadbeat.
If the decline is real, I’m almost sure it’s our terrible meat heavy diet and micro plastics in everything.
I’m definitely one of the low T people, and frankly I wouldn’t care… If women didn’t still only seem to want MANLY MEN™ .
Seems like not the only bell curve you are in the left of.
Move to any city and seek out educated women.
I don’t know what hellhole you live in but that wasn’t even true when I lived in one of the most conservative states in the United States.
This man is a “lunatic” because he’s worried about a change in the hormone levels of hundreds of millions of people?
Tell me you’re a misandrist without telling me you’re a misandrist.
Well, he is a lunatic for different reasons, but the reason for declining testosterone is not because of a crime, a plot, or correlating to a lack of masculinity, heavily masculine individuals still exist en masse, rather the average is being brought down by associated factors including average USA population increases in weight, diabetes, and of course age (See the Table below). Other factors that haven’t necessarily been proven to effect us on this scale, but probably do, is the move away from meat. While strictly veganism and vegetarian demographics have declined in recent years depending on who you ask, meat-replacement markets have grown massively in the last two decades.
There is no current widespread deficiency or emergency. Even with lower Testosterone levels most males are sufficient to remain healthy, even the chart shows that all but one blip of the collected data is above the 350 mark which is considered safe.
So you don’t think that people being more overweight, having more diabetes is “a crime”?
Do you realize that word use is not a reference to literal criminal law?
No I don’t think they’re a crime. That’s a really stupid question.
A quick literary search suggests there is no evidence linking a vegan diet with a reduction in testosterone. In fact, most studies found an small but significant increase in testosterone with specifically vegan men.
A simple google search shows nothing that backs up your claim, odd that you would have made it.
Odd that you would concentrate on the one claim OP himself says is a weak link, especially when the influence of veganism would be so much less than age and obesity. Odd that you wouldnt look into the connection of age/obesity and T-levels.
Nah it’s cool it’s good to question everything. Especially in this day in age where the fake is being manufactured faster than the real.
I used words like “not proven to” and “probably” as reasons to express doubt, but yeah it looks like it was a recent controversy with men’s health magazine and several studies going back about at least a decade disprove it citing a very clear inverse correlation with higher fat concentration in meats.
EDIT: Looks like consumption of fat contents in meat inversely correlates with testosterone, so vegans might actually be more masculine by that definition.
Could you please provide your source for that? I would like to read more on that.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3573976/
To be clear the fat contents correlate with the lower testosterone, but the same was not true for high carbohydrate diets, so it’s a correlation specifically with high fat meats.
Lemmy and misandry, name a more iconic duo.
I’ve been hording it. Sorry.
I want to hear this guy ng/dl.
Probably thinks it’s pronounced like “nigdul.”
It’s not a crime, it’s just an annoying medical condition.
Isn’t that good for alphas? Who’s complaining?
