• ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
    0·
    6 days ago

    When I first heard ‘TERF’ I thought it was ‘TIRF’ for Inclusive. It caused me to inadvertantly piss off some TERFs when I kept treating them as someone who supported trans rights. Like, I thought it meant a person was trans themselves and a radical feminist.

    Apparently nothing pisses off a transphobe like attributing a level of humanity they’re trying to reject.

    Now I know better and I’d fuckin’ do it again.

      • Sophienomenal@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        0·
        6 days ago

        I would say transphobia absolutely is radical. Of course, by the definition in which it is extreme. Say, for instance, by these definitions:

        Departing markedly from the usual or customary; extreme or drastic.

        Relating to or advocating fundamental or revolutionary changes in current practices, conditions, or institutions.

        The slang form of radical (being a synonym for excellent/wonderful) is merely a single definition, and when talking about politics (I hate to liken transphobia to a “political” issue, but it is heavily intertwined with politics now), its denotation is that of the quoted definitions above.

        • rumschlumpel@feddit.org
          0·
          6 days ago

          IMO transphobia is too close to the political and societal status quo to call it ‘radical’ - most people weren’t quite on board with trans people in the first place, and any legal provisions in favor of trans people were usually introduced relatively recently.

          • Sophienomenal@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
            0·
            5 days ago

            I highly disagree. Transphobia is not a majority opinion, and the only reason trans issues have gotten a political spotlight as of late is as a scapegoat. For instance, take the results of a poll of US citizens by Pew Research Center in 2022:

            Americans’ Complex Views on Gender Identity and Transgender Issues - Pew Research Center

            I would thus argue that opposition of trans rights has in recent history been radical. Very few US voters stood in opposition of protections of trans Americans less than 3 years ago.

            • rumschlumpel@feddit.org
              0·
              5 days ago

              According to your link, 60% think that your sex must be the sex assigned at birth (54% in 2017, better but not great, either). Kind of at odds with the first number that has most people in favor of protecting trans people from discrimination. Using trans people as scapegoats wouldn’t work if a lot of people weren’t already at least on the fence about trans people.

              It’s true that according to that poll, I’ve overestimated the transphobia of the average american, though.

    • riwo@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      0·
      7 days ago

      a common understanding radical by self described radicals is “targeting the root of an issue” or the “wanting large systemic changes” that follows from that.

      for radical feminists this means recognizing patriarchal power structures as the root of most gender related opressions and wishing to overcome them. while we can critique their exact analysis, i think the idea that many opressive acts are symptoms of deeper systemic opressions maked a lot of sense.

      please don’t let opressors convince you that liberation in itself goes too far. a better world is possible and the struggle for it is righteous.

    • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      0·
      7 days ago

      Is radical a bad word? Its use is generally associated with revolutionary politics. The usage of the term by TERFs stems from second wave feminist theory. They have to specify that they are Trans Exclusionary to distinguish them from radical feminists as a whole, who are not necessarily Trans exclusionary.

      • rumschlumpel@feddit.org
        0·
        6 days ago

        AFAIK, TERFs don’t usually describe themselves as TERF, they just call themselves feminists, sometimes also ‘radical’.

        • Septimaeus@infosec.pub
          0·
          6 days ago

          Agreed. Only its obsolete connotation — hazardously unmeasured zealotry — would apply.

          That they describe themselves as the positive kind of radical unironically speaks to how deeply they misunderstood feminism from the start.

          • Of the Air (cele/celes)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            0·
            6 days ago

            speaks to how deeply they misunderstood feminism from the start.

            Well, they did and didn’t. They are stuck in the past. 2nd wave feminism and current day white feminism. It’s, not good, but it’s not exactly ‘misunderstanding’ just focusing on entirely the wrong things.

            That or yeah, they’re lying about being feminists, which… considering they side with and use fascist talking points wouldn’t exactly be surprising.

            • Septimaeus@infosec.pub
              0·
              6 days ago

              I could see that, and I’m sure you’re right that it’s a mixed bag, ultimately. Also I agree that it’s a common misunderstanding among second wave feminists.

              I just meant that a key thread in their prejudice appears to be a kind of reciprocal othering or tribalism which accepts the imposition that gender is defined by sex, and thus interprets the struggle against the patriarchy more literally as a form of societal trench warfare. From that perspective, there can be no trans women by definition, only untrustworthy defectors who leapt over the proverbial trench, and a proper #radical feminist won’t forget and will keep her vigil.

              Pulling that thread would seem to unravel their transphobia to reveal internalized misogyny, since they misunderstood feminism as misandry from the start.

              It’s just a guess, however. I am young and often wrong.