• Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Of course Trump is worse.

    Now let’s not pretend that the Democratic Party has any love at all for these protestors. Let’s not pretend that the prevailing sentiment in this community isn’t that these protestors should shut up and stop criticizing US support for Netanyahu’s genocide because they’re worried it makes Biden look bad.

    • FaceDeer@fedia.io
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      5 months ago

      And let’s not pretend that the US isn’t a two-party system.

      Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Your choices are Trump or Biden.

            • YeetPics@mander.xyz
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              5 months ago

              Question: Does this heightened level of nuance transfer onto a FPTP voting system?

              Answer: absolutely not.

              Your comment should read “One can dislike Biden without demanding voters elect a bigger dipshit”

              But it doesn’t.

          • AIhasUse@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            This whole thing of “you need to lie about the facts to make one side look way better than they are or else you are campaigning for the other side” thing needs to go. It just needs to go. It isn’t fooling anyone, and it just makes everyone doing it come across as idiots. Own your stance, be honest about what we can all see, and try to explain why you feel like you do from base reality. I know you’ve been told it makes you a traitor or whatever, but it simply doesn’t. It makes you come across as a genuine person, and it makes the things you say have more weight.

              • AIhasUse@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                My agenda is to see more honest discussions. It is not a hidden agenda. I am very open about it. I, and many other people, honestly believe that Joe is doing a horrific job. I also honestly believe that Trump would do a horrific job. I am disgusted by the fact that nobody who could potentially make it into the White House has shown anything but complete and utter contempt for the innocent lives in Gaza.

                I absolutely refuse to pretend that Biden is great for Gaza in some pathetic attempt to trick idiots who somehow haven’t paid attention into thinking that Biden isn’t floating in am Olympic sized pool of children’s blood. I’m not saying Trump will do any better, and I’m not saying I will vote for Trump. All I am saying is that we will all be better off if vocal people like yourself were to at least try to have honest dialogs. No strawman, no hidden agenda, just plain, honest discussion. The thing that has offended you so deeply can be summed up in a single word. Honesty.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                I’m happy to engage in nuanced, fair, complex discourse about US politics with anyone who wants to have it, and I have criticisms of my party.

                Do tell. What criticisms do you have of the Democratic Party?

                  • AIhasUse@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    So willing to make claims, but way more willing to run away when called to stand up for them. If you start trying to make honest claims, then this wouldn’t happen, instead you would be glad to back them up.

                    Edit: typo

          • Aniki 🌱🌿@lemm.ee
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            5 months ago

            That is not at all what’s happening. The world is much less black and white than you think.

              • theprogressivist @lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                I guess you’re conveniently forgetting about yesterday where you made an absolute fool of yourself and got caught lying.

                Btw I’m STILL waiting on that answer.

            • Xhieron@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              Oh I know. Trust me, I don’t engage with these people with any illusions. There’s no arguing with the agitprop element here. The point of responding at all is just to identify them to the general public.

    • barsquid@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Biden thinks the protestors have a First Amendment right to speak out. Repubs want them attacked by the National Guard and/or deported to a war zone.

    • Beetschnapps@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Let’s pretend about that world…

      As trump gasses these folks…

      But it’s someone else gassing people… it’s not the same republicans that did it back in the day with the patriots act. No that was different…

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                Sorry. I’m coming to this with the understanding that delay means that many fewer living Palestinians and that much closer to Netanyahu completing his genocide. I consider this situation to be too time-sensitive for incrementalism, and I have a tendency to regard calls for patience in the face of this to be callous.

                I also firmly believe that Biden is harming his own chances of defeating Trump by supporting Netanyahu’s genocide, and that the future of democracy in the US rests on his willingness to cease his support.

                If Biden does not change in the next few months, I fear things will get much worse and may never improve for the human species.

                  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    I understand that but right now what do you want me to do about it?

                    I don’t know.

                    Really and truly. I’ve written my reps, I’ve stood with protestors, I’ve been very vocal about my feelings re: Israel’s horrific retaliation

                    I get that. I live in Texas. Writing to my rep and senators results in a form letter thanking me for agreeing with them (contrary to the content of my letter), followed by fundraising mailers.

                    We are discussing an election in November between Trump and Biden, right? So what do I do with that?

                    Only thing to do is vote for Biden and take a really long shower afterwards.

                    Trump will make it objectively worse for Palestinians. So I will vote Biden.

                    Likewise. I fear that absent change on Biden’s part, he will lose anyway.

    • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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      5 months ago

      The prevailing attitude on Lemmy seems to be that Israel should be wiped from the face of the earth. Comments that don’t support the protesters are quite rare.

      • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        Not many people outside of the full-on tankie brigades are arguing that Israel has no right to exist as a country. On the other hand, they are arguing that Palestinine also has a right to exist as a country, and that the land that Israel has unjustly taken, and continues to take, should be returned. And that Israel should need to make reparations for the Palestinian non-combatants they’ve killed, and the land they’ve stolen.

        It’s clear that Israel as a country will never allow Palestinians to have a full voice in their government, so the only reasonable choice at this point is a two-state solution.

      • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Israel is sure doing their best job to try and make that the prevailing attitude. And frankly, I don’t know that I disagree anymore. Get the civilians out of harms way, and then wipe out the government and the IDF, alongside Hamas.