I’m calling for https://lemmy.ml/u/[email protected], the most prolific user of the transgender comm here on lemmy.ml, to be immediately unbanned and nutomic to be removed as admin. It is good and correct to leak the DMs of transphobes.
@[email protected] @[email protected] @cypherphunks
edit: you can find more info from kristinas post here and beavers post here
edit 2: proof, also beaver was banned from the whole instance modlong
edit 3: For trans people looking for a safer instance, I suggest Hexbear. They have a very active trans user base and are extremely supportive.
God damn, I agree with Marcie.
Nutomic should self-crit and step back
💖
man “leaked private messages” is such a weak fucking excuse in the face of transphobia. @[email protected] you realize you’re just alienating a huge fucking number of comrades? not just trans people, but all those that rightfully stand with us too.
Agreeing with you here, I’m wondering if this can spawn a broader project to try to alter the relationship between the admins, mods and users.
More and better feedback loops and grassroots organisation and less “admins and mods own this, take it or leave it” culture.
In the end, I think this comes down to poor admin/mod practice and poor community leadership where many of the users here would just like to make sure things are better.
I’m just an occasional lurker here so I’m pretty out of the loop, but wouldn’t it make more sense to just migrate to an instance without an openly transphobic admin? Isn’t being able to do that supposed to be one of the big advantages of a federated service?
There’s also the issue of Nutomic being a core Lemmy dev. While something can be said about detaching the art from the artist, having alleged* bigots be involved in the long-term planning of a project raises question of whether they’ll let those opinions influence the direction of the project. For example, if somebody created a pull request to add pronouns to user profiles and it was rejected, would it be for a valid technical reason or bigotry with plausible deniability.
* I say this because I’m not looking to get instance banned at this time.
Unfortunately, there’s no friction-free way to migrate. On Mastodon, for example, you can migrate between instances by exchanging codes between your old and new accounts and, in time, your posts, comments, memberships, followers, etc will move across automatically. On Lemmy, however, that’s not an option and you start from fresh with on the new instance.
You can import/export settings (which includes which communities you follow). Although I’ve heard some instances have issues and it doesn’t include you posts/comments/etc.
but wouldn’t it make more sense to just migrate to an instance without an openly transphobic admin
That’s really just too passive for me at least, much prefer to occupy a space and make the transphobes leave.
Is that even possible in this case? Seems like you’re guaranteed to lose a fight with an admin unless you’ve got another admin on your side.
I have had broadly positive interactions with dessalines in the past, and I don’t envy him the situation he is now placed in.
I prefer to possibly lose a fight than give up before it starts.
I just think it’s sort of interesting that this particular event is what has clued some people into the fact that a not insignificant portion of the online leftist community views LGBT issues in the context of this geopolitical campism. These are the same attitudes which cause some in the community to routinely look past other notable anti-LGBT groups on the international stage, simply because they stand in opposition to bigger bads. These attitudes have never been hidden, and I have always thought they were expressed and supported with a startling lack of nuance and consideration for the people who are actually injured by them.
I think I know what you’re trying to point to, but I do not think this is an honest portrayal.
I saw episode one of a docuseries called Deaf And… earlier today, the episode is titled “Deaf Identity”. And one of the interviewees, Dr. Aaron Kelstone, professor of performing arts at NTID, said something that I find relevant to this topic.
People come here [to NTID] and find out what a Deaf identity is, then come to realize, “Oh, that’s not the only thing I am.” For your entire life, the focus is on your hearing. But now you can explore– “I’m also straight,” or “I’m gay,” or “I’m…” There is so much more to who you are. You discover so much more in your identity, whereas before you felt so limited. Everything is about “I can’t hear.” But now, it’s not just that anymore– you are Deaf and all those other things.
Or in other words, it is audism, just this constant background oppression that pervades the lives of the Deaf people who are denied the opportunity to spend time in spaces around fellow Deaf people, that prevents many of them from forming a strong and cohesive identity outside of just being the “Deaf Island” in the “Sea of Hearies”. So these Deaf people need to solve the most pressing issue(s) in their lives, before they can solve the other issues that they face. And for myself it has been similar, from the “I’m not a bisexual trans girl, it’s just not possible, I’m just confused because I’m autistic and fatherless” of my teen years to the “consumption of animal products is profoundly wrong, but I cannot stop doing it until I can reliably buy and prepare my own meals” of today.
And I think on some level if we “personify” different countries, we can say a very similar thing about LGBT+ life in these countries that are being plundered by imperialism. That because of this constant deprivation that these countries face, that the actual infrastructure needed for a successful LGBT+ rights movement cannot form in these countries. This does not mean that their bigotry should be excused or left entirely unopposed, but that it should be seen in its proper context. And the proper context for Lemmy is that this is a FOSS Reddit clone and Nutomic could simply stop being an ass whenever he wants. And as long as he continues to be an ass, his actions should have consequences.
I would largely agree with your premise if I believed that Nutomic will face any consequences at all. I will be happy to be proven wrong about this apparent double standard.
I think you are close to getting it but not quite.
the online leftist community views LGBT issues in the context of this geopolitical campism
Most of the online left oppose, say, Russia’s LGBT laws. Do we think its grounds for invading Russia? No, bombs do not discriminate against queers, transgender people will be drafted and forced to detransition, supply lines for necessary medicine for trans people are disrupted, etc.
Nutomic and ilk like him are ultimately not very ideological and not very well read. They like a corner of a pretty picture but do not see the whole, these people should not be given any position over others.
Not that I disagree with anything in this post but I would like to point out that Nutomic is, IIRC, the literal creator and dev of Lemmy itself.
We don’t need their software.
Sublinks, crafted using Java Spring Boot, stands as a state-of-the-art link aggregation platform, reminiscent yet advanced compared to Lemmy & Kbin.
It features a Lemmy compatible API, allowing for seamless integration and migration for existing Lemmy users.
I hope Sublinks will come out soon, but it’s not there yet.
https://joinmbin.org/ and https://piefed.social/ are more complete alternatives
Im all but convinced sublinks is a grift trying to capitalize on the failures of reddit and wants to poach as much of the users from lemmy (especially lemmy.world) as possible. Their reasoning for creating this clone is extremely flimsy, “not enough mod tools” and before submitting any patches or attempts to improve lemmy they want to reinvent the whole system from scratch. Their stated reason for that “they don’t want to learn rust” also is very weird considering that it would be less effort to learn rust (especially if you already have a professional coding background) and submit patches to lemmy.
Instead they reinvent the wheel with the notable difference being that they are using a license that would allow a corporation to monetize the content whereas the lemmy license disallows this for it and any derivatives of it. Which is what I think is the real reason for the rewrite.
Also they have stated that while they will have lemmy compatibility in the beginning they will move away from it later which just sounds like a classic embrace, extend and extinguish move.
Yeah, every time I see it come up it just makes me ask “but why yet another platform” I always assumed it was because they didn’t have anyone who could meaningfully contribute in rust - that explanation seems plausible though
didn’t have anyone who could meaningfully contribute in rust
That and it seems they’re using the languages and tech stack they use in their day jobs, which also makes sense. Whether that was accurately weighed against the benefits and costs of rewriting from scratch is another question though.
Of course, the elephant in the room is that they likely couldn’t remotely stand to collaborate with hard leftists.
As to the grift take from @[email protected] , I once saw them post about new mod features along with a survey, and having heard that this was a major selling point looked into it all … and as I recall I saw little in the way of any new ideas or promises. Doesn’t mean that they won’t do well on that front. Piefed seem to have done some good things there. But there certainly seems to have been hype there.
afaik dessalines is the creator, nutomic is a co-creator and second largest contributor
Though to be fair, there’s a good chance that your pleas are not heeded here and that the admins do close ranks (I’m hoping some form of correction occurs, becuase it’s pretty obviously a petty and personal ban). Point being, you and this community may want to (if you/they aren’t already) think about what you want to do should they ignore you here.
Also, in the proof you provided … it’s important to note that they banned beaver from the whole instance. You’ll see bans from a whole bunch of communities as well as a general in the modlog: https://lemmy.ml/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=9782557
yeah, i’ll edit that in
It seems a strange distinction to say one person is a creator and another is the co-creator. Kind of by definition, that makes both people co-creatos.
I think its in the direction of who owns the github repo, which defines a bit more of a strict hierarchy
Sounds like one person is the creator, and the other is a prominent contributor. I’m just pointing out the oddness of the use of co- on only one side.
They’re a core dev, yes, but not the creator AFAIU, that’s dessalines who started the project. Nutomic joined pretty early though and is a major contributor to the project yes. I think they’ve been happy to counter each other’s behaviour whenever it made sense in the past.
I thought it was Dessalines
He can be the president dude. If you’re a Transphobe little bitch, you deserve what’s coming to you.
removed
I’m guessing what you said here, but you should think about if using such words as insults might hurt bystanders.
example of ablest language
like could you see how calling someone a pathetic cripple might make physically handicapped people upset? Kinda similar with insulting someone’s intelligence. Just something to think about.
Nothing is removed for me. I’m guessing your instance bans the word “b1tc h”? Because that’s the only swear. Also fuck censorship
Suppose it does.
You probably shouldn’t evade the filter though, at least not with a spoiler.
Don’t mind me just enjoying the drama hehehehehhe
idk what this picture is but I love it
🫡
What does this mean? That he can only post within Lemmy.ml?
no that’s the community [email protected] . He just can’t post there anymore.
Thanks for the explanation.
You’re enemies by ideology
As Marx and Lenin said in Chapter 7 of “Marxu no Leninu kotaku tokadimasai”: “uwu uwu uwu uwu uwu uwu uwu uwu transphobia is based uwu uwu uwu uwu uwu uwu”
Just in case, /s
0·1 month ago
what did I just read??I’m really sorry
You understand what the ml in lemmy.ml stands for right? You’re enemies by ideology.
I’m an ml 😎
The admins of other instances can’t help you stop tagging random ppl.
They can defed, which a wholly suggest if nutomic isn’t removed.
Lol my benign posts are being deleted… Gg
Literally 1984
I think everyone should defed from ml without this happening lol.
The first rule of lemmy . ml:
Bigotry, transphobia, racism, nationalism, and chauvinism are not allowed.
Found the guy who still believes the Nazis were socialists
Found the guy who still believes mls are socialists.
How are marxists and trans people enemies ideologically? Is that what you’re saying?
Apologies, I just woke and can’t quite sort all the details. But I’m on the side of anyone who promotes acceptance. I’m against anyone who is a bigot. I support safe and welcoming communities.
good vibe 💗
He technically functionally has the right. Just move instances and leave him in the dust.
That’s not a right, that’s a privilege, and one that is accorded by this community. Hence, this post, and hopefully revoked ASAP, it seems.
No, it’s a right called ownership. The shit is his. Just leave him in the dust. Don’t give him the power.
I mean, ultimately, yea. He’s not the only admin (and the second most senior AFAICT), and creating a relationship between users and admins/mods is a worthwhile activity. Just walking away whenever mods do something excessive (which is a thing, they’re human, it’s always going to happen) is too passive and destructive.
Walking away is what I do. My attitude is that I’m what’s good and if they don’t want it, they can’t have me.
I hear you and that’s fair.
Part of my position here is informed by my being a mod of my own community. Before I started it I made sure I was willing to walk away and accept criticism from the members of the community (and posted to this effect too). It’s something that is important I think.
Yeah it’s definitely worth saying something first. Can’t just walk away leaving reasons go silent.
That’s some defeatist bullshit, friend. Do better.
Sure, I can do that, but I would prefer every place on fediverse to be trans accepting and not admin’d by transphobes. 🤷♀️
Yeah well you’re not in control of that guy’s servers. He can do what he wants. Why stay? Staying defeats the point of the fediverse. Why give him the time of day?
As a non-trans (IE, not having direct personal stakes as others would) … two salient issues here for me are:
- Ensuring consistency between admin actions and instance rules and culture
- Creating a culture of and expectations around reasonably holding admins/mods to account for their conduct. Overzealous and personal admin/mod actions are a cancer for group-based social media platforms like this. Simply moving is one possible course of action, but a damaging one. Creating feedback loops between users and mods, IMO, is a better way to go, and so trying for that here is worthwhile.
I’m not saying it doesn’t suck. I’m saying you can’t police this guy’s server. He does that. You literally physically cannot. Moving away isn’t damaging to you. It’s damaging to him. These instances live off the community just like Reddit.
Moving away isn’t damaging to you. It’s damaging to him.
Moving can always damage a community. And as I said in my dot points, I think there are real grounds for calling this out as inconsistent with stated rules. The fediverse is about grassroots organisation, not just decentralisation … just walking away is arguably too passive, especially when there are grounds to discuss what’s going on.
Okay, but your discussion isn’t gonna change anything.
I hear you and you may very well be right. We can hope I guess and find it important to try.
I agree with that. No sense in walking away without trying to address it first.
♫ EXCISE THE VULGAR MATERIALIST ♫
♫ FOR THE STRUGGLE OF THE CLASS ♫
♫ EXCISE THE VULGAR MATERIALIST ♫
♫ HE REFUSES TO CLEAN HIS ASS ♫
Would Nutomic say something back?
@[email protected] @[email protected]
(someone mentioned to me that posts dont ping properly, sorry if i pinged twice)
Thanks. Dealt with on our end
Honestly, just get out of .Ml and let it fade the way hexbear has
Fading away is when they’re still the big lemmy boogyman and are one of the most active instances
Hexbear hasn’t really faded, their trans megathread hits 2-3k comments regularly, so it is very relevant to trans affairs on lemmy. They have an extremely active trans community and are very supportive of them, going so far as defederating from problematic instances that have a lot of people that harass trans people on them.
Its a more strict community that doesn’t fuck with the wider fediverse on purpose, they care about their queer users. And 66% of hexbear is queer, by the way, and about half are trans.
Wasn’t there a whole drama with hexbear, like tankies brigading and such? Or am I mixing this all up with some other instance?
I have heard similar. Also hexbear is based on lemmy but not a part of the same fediverse, you might not be able to visit much else from it.
I have no clue about their stance on lgbt+ though, to what i understood the main moral conflict seems to be wether or not you support russian/chinese state-socialism and left-authoritarianism. Allegedly theirs also censorship of criticism.
lmao
If you mean trans people telling transphobes and racists to fuck off, I mean yeah they did that a lot
That’s awesome, but wasnt there a whole debacle with lots of instances defederating from hexbear? If it was so, I never heard it was a trans positiv community (I hope I’m wrong). I always heard beehaw was the trans 💖. Please enlighten me!
I missed most of it myself, but I remember reading about it when it happened. World made a statement about it back then. https://lemmy.world/post/2498330
Preemptively defederated as a “last resort”, lmao
Thanks! I knew there was something rotten in that instance. Wanting to dismantle the west, indeed, a very pro LGBT stance they have. Good luck being LGBT in one of the fine dictatorships like Russia (where trans is seen as a mental disease, probably the most lenient of those dictatorships, in Iran it’s a death sentence).
Yeah I’ll keep myself at beehaw and leave hexbear to the pro dictator fachos.
Lol yeah the west is so pro LGBT. Just ignore the hundreds of proposed anti-trans bills in the USA, or the mass incarceration/prison violence towards trans people, or the widespread medical gatekeeping, or the fact that being LGBT (especially T) makes you way more likely to be homeless, or how even the supposedly left Labour Party has taken a huge rightward swing under Queer Harmer. If you actually think there’s any hope of freedom for LGBT people in the western world you are a fucking idiot. Go read a book and you might yet be able to pull the worms out of your brain. Rainbow Solidarity in Defense of Cuba by Leslie Feinberg is a great one if you want to see what a country actually trying to improve the lives of LGBT people looks like.
where trans is seen as a mental disease
Until extremely recently that was also the case in the states, as in, before informed consent became a thing I couldn’t get HRT without a doctors note saying I’m mentally ill and fuckable enough, and even then it was sterilization first and having to pay out of pocket for tons of shit.
Also Iran post islamic revolution was one of the few places you can get a binary transition- it’s still pretty fucked up, but not a death sentence by any measure.
I wish that Russia was less shitty about being trans so I could visit family more safely, it’s not been made better by having my identity turned into a cultural wedge issue.
I will say, I have had a .ml account because I like to engage with the broader lemmy even if it is often very transphobic. Hexbear has the best trans environment from what I’ve seen, I think it’s worth emulating. The red scare fearmongering was a bit over the top from the other lemmies, people responding to your posts from instances you’re federated with is not brigading
I wouldn’t call hexbear faded in the slightest. You may have them hidden/blocked/whatever to that effect
MAUs is a decent measure, but last I know (admittedly old data) Hexbear had quite the outsized post/comment rate for their users compared to other instances. I don’t know if the higher MAU count on the other instances counterbalance that at this point, but I think that’s at least worth something in determining the size of their presence on the fediverse
Yeah the data is interesting. Each individual in hexbear posts a lot more than your standard user, but they almost exclusively post to hexbear. Other instances bleed more into the broader fediverse and interact with each other more frequently.
It is not them who should fade away
It is ye
Yer ilk has single-handedly redditized the spirit of true Lemmy, you {redacted}, may you burn in hell!
How on earth is “Leaked private messages” a reason for banning. Absolutely an abuse of power and Streisand Effect is doing it’s thing.
