Why are you so combative about this? I read three articles and in not one did he say anything overt (he can’t if he wants to live, and he can’t leave to somewhere where he can speak openly) or use language at all equivalent to a “CIA psyop”. Let’s just leave this conversation here. You obviously loathe a person I respect a great deal and this isn’t going anywhere good.
… Okay, but you’re still wrong. People have horrible political views and say stupid shit in their early twenties. And when they live in authoritarian countries they’d rather not live in, they can’t criticize their governments. Jesus fucking Christ.
People have horrible political views and say stupid shit in their early twenties.
Oh, okay, so if I brought proof that he was still a libertarian dipshit now, you’d believe me? Or is it “He was a libertarian dipshit then, but now he’s just saying the same things they are”?
And when they live in authoritarian countries they’d rather not live in,
When they flee to authoritarian countries with countless other options on the table, you mean.
they can’t criticize their governments.
Oh, okay, so risking punishment in the US was fine, but risking punishment in Russia is too far for him. Very convenient level of bravery, the perfect medium. There are ordinary Russians even now who continue to openly criticize the government, but I guess Snowden just isn’t as brave as them. Very very curious level of bravery.
You haven’t brought that proof. He isn’t saying the same things they are. You would have zero way of knowing what his exact situation was and where he could go, he had literal minutes to make his plan, and I have no fucking clue what point you think you’re making by comparing a country he literally has no choice but to stay in, that everyone “falls out of windows” in all the time, to a country he could definitely leave, maybe make better, and had an idea how to escape from. Wtf ?
Also man, your tone is incredibly condescending. And since you’re a mod, I’m just waiting for you to ban me everywhere you can.
You’re so far only convinced me that A) you think a lot about how much you despise Snowden, someone I’ve considered a hero for a decade and B) you don’t respect me at all.
So awesome, great talk. If I’m not banned before I can hit submit.
You would have zero way of knowing what his exact situation was and where he could go, he had literal minutes to make his plan,
Minutes to make his plan.
Are you going to keep to this? Because I can give you quite the outline of Snowden’s actions leading up to him fleeing the country, and ‘minutes to make a plan’ is not included in that.
and I have no fucking clue what point you think you’re making by comparing a country he literally has no choice but to stay in, that everyone “falls out of windows” in all the time, to a country he could definitely leave, maybe make better, and had an idea how to escape from.
“He did something that was beneficial. This does not make him a good person. It does not make him brave. It certainly doesn’t make him wise. He’s a cowardly dipshit who is now supporting a fascist regime.”
Also man, your tone is incredibly condescending. And since you’re a mod, I’m just waiting for you to ban me everywhere you can.
I don’t ban people for disagreeing with me. And certainly not in any place they hadn’t broken the rules in.
You’re so far only convinced me that A) you think a lot about how much you despise Snowden, someone I’ve considered a hero for a decade
Yep, I reconsidered the issue in-depth after the Ukrainian War began.
B) you don’t respect me at all.
It’s the internet, man. You’re words on a screen putting forth shitty arguments. Tomorrow you may be putting forward good arguments; tomorrow you may be putting forth bad arguments. I take things as they come.
Yeah, it is quite clear that is how you’re treating this. Text, conveying awful evil ideas from a faceless enemy without feelings or a soul. I gotta go.
Yeah, I’m not here to discuss politics from the point of “How does the other person feel about my criticism of a third party whose behavior influences more people than you or I will ever even speak to?” but “Is this correct or incorrect? Is this moral or immoral? Is this a valid argument, or invalid?”
I honestly used to believe humanity had a chance. Between the trump era and seeing people behave poorly all the time, I just don’t have that hope anymore. I don’t know how to explain it, and it doesn’t seem like you’d care in any case, but this conversation is a not small part of increasing that hopelessness. For a year I’ve been reading your posts and comments and largely agreeing and feeling a sense of alignment. But the second there isn’t agreement, boom, a feeling of instant enemies.
You aren’t here to care about feelings… alright. Generally though I think society benefits if more people think humanity has a shot.
Why are you so combative about this? I read three articles and in not one did he say anything overt (he can’t if he wants to live, and he can’t leave to somewhere where he can speak openly) or use language at all equivalent to a “CIA psyop”. Let’s just leave this conversation here. You obviously loathe a person I respect a great deal and this isn’t going anywhere good.
Except for the part where he was denying Russia’s imminent intent to invade Ukraine. Funny that when he’s defending Russia he can be overt, but when criticizing it, he can’t. But yes, I’m sure he’s a very heroic man with great principles. Definitely not a libertarian dipshit with the usual conflicting opinions depending on whether the administration is seen as liberal or not. He called for whistleblowers to be killed, and then became one.
… Okay, but you’re still wrong. People have horrible political views and say stupid shit in their early twenties. And when they live in authoritarian countries they’d rather not live in, they can’t criticize their governments. Jesus fucking Christ.
Oh, okay, so if I brought proof that he was still a libertarian dipshit now, you’d believe me? Or is it “He was a libertarian dipshit then, but now he’s just saying the same things they are”?
When they flee to authoritarian countries with countless other options on the table, you mean.
Oh, okay, so risking punishment in the US was fine, but risking punishment in Russia is too far for him. Very convenient level of bravery, the perfect medium. There are ordinary Russians even now who continue to openly criticize the government, but I guess Snowden just isn’t as brave as them. Very very curious level of bravery.
You haven’t brought that proof. He isn’t saying the same things they are. You would have zero way of knowing what his exact situation was and where he could go, he had literal minutes to make his plan, and I have no fucking clue what point you think you’re making by comparing a country he literally has no choice but to stay in, that everyone “falls out of windows” in all the time, to a country he could definitely leave, maybe make better, and had an idea how to escape from. Wtf ?
Also man, your tone is incredibly condescending. And since you’re a mod, I’m just waiting for you to ban me everywhere you can.
You’re so far only convinced me that A) you think a lot about how much you despise Snowden, someone I’ve considered a hero for a decade and B) you don’t respect me at all.
So awesome, great talk. If I’m not banned before I can hit submit.
Minutes to make his plan.
Are you going to keep to this? Because I can give you quite the outline of Snowden’s actions leading up to him fleeing the country, and ‘minutes to make a plan’ is not included in that.
“He did something that was beneficial. This does not make him a good person. It does not make him brave. It certainly doesn’t make him wise. He’s a cowardly dipshit who is now supporting a fascist regime.”
I don’t ban people for disagreeing with me. And certainly not in any place they hadn’t broken the rules in.
Yep, I reconsidered the issue in-depth after the Ukrainian War began.
It’s the internet, man. You’re words on a screen putting forth shitty arguments. Tomorrow you may be putting forward good arguments; tomorrow you may be putting forth bad arguments. I take things as they come.
Yeah, it is quite clear that is how you’re treating this. Text, conveying awful evil ideas from a faceless enemy without feelings or a soul. I gotta go.
Yeah, I’m not here to discuss politics from the point of “How does the other person feel about my criticism of a third party whose behavior influences more people than you or I will ever even speak to?” but “Is this correct or incorrect? Is this moral or immoral? Is this a valid argument, or invalid?”
I honestly used to believe humanity had a chance. Between the trump era and seeing people behave poorly all the time, I just don’t have that hope anymore. I don’t know how to explain it, and it doesn’t seem like you’d care in any case, but this conversation is a not small part of increasing that hopelessness. For a year I’ve been reading your posts and comments and largely agreeing and feeling a sense of alignment. But the second there isn’t agreement, boom, a feeling of instant enemies.
You aren’t here to care about feelings… alright. Generally though I think society benefits if more people think humanity has a shot.
You should save the vitriol for people who literally are your enemy