Harris’ takeover has been an an absolute success, but anyone claiming they knew it’d work out this way is lying or delusional. Just because we hit the low percentage chance that it all worked out doesn’t mean people were wrong for thinking it was most likely a bad idea because all available history and information basically assured that it was.
That said, anyone that got vitriolic about it (on either side, tbf) can get bent. This is all uncharted waters right now. Being a dick about it either way isn’t helping anything. Let’s not pretend to know that anything is certain.
Yeah let’s maybe hold off on the victory laps until after the election. This thing is on a knife’s edge still and we got a lot of work to do still to get her over the line.
Still a knife edge, but there’s more space on this knife edge.
Though that debate performance. …. She was always going to eviscerate him… but she did it with style….
I knew that Harris would be a better candidate than Biden.
You’d have to be proverbially blind to not have seen it.
Did I know it would be this wildly successful? Not so much. I knew it could be, and I knew Harris would be better than Biden.
I’m with you and all, but shouldn’t we wait before considering it a victory?
Plenty of racists and sexists out there who won’t say a word about Harris publicly but will vote for Trump the second they enter the booth no matter what.
I’m not declaring victory- I’m saying Biden had almost zero chance of beating trump.
If he had lost like four of any of ten states, he’d have lost I. 2020. He won the EC by a razor’s edge.
And that was with all the shit of his presidency fresh. He’s had four years to retcon things, to shore up his base. And Biden had 4 years to fuck around on messaging.
He was and is taking a beating there- and some of it is actually legitimate (Gaza for example.)
Harris… it’s going to be a tough fight, but it’s her campaign to lose. Which is a night-and-day difference.
No way to know if it “worked out” before all votes are counted (at the end it doesn’t matter how large or small the margin is, just on whose side it is). But yeah, you didn’t need to be a genius to know that she was the objectively better candidate.
No where in my comment did I say that’s not true.
But again: if you can’t see the difference- and couldn’t see the difference before Biden dropped out, then I can only assume you weren’t paying attention.
It wasn’t even a sure thing that Harris would be the candidate to replace Biden.
I was going to bet a large amount of cash that Biden would lose. We hit rock bottom and all data proved Biden was at best at Jimmy Carter’s level of performance with added baggage like age-related risk. I said then and say now that anyone would be better. Whether that was Harris or whether that was by an open convention – which itself could’ve been exciting and similarly sucked away all attention from Trump – either way.
At the end of the day all the data convinced not just me but countless Democratic representatives and eventually Biden’s own campaign staff and advisors. Thank fuck he did the obviously right thing.
What I got wrong: I didn’t believe Harris would work out this well, and in fact I was hoping for Whitmer among others if I’m honest… But I’m happily proven wrong.
I was also wrong about the VP pick. I wanted Kelly but Walz is the whole package.
This is what I don’t get. Everyone here had the sentiment of “we will vote for anyone who is not Donald Trump”. But then they balked at the suggestion that Biden should drop out and insisted that no one could replace him.
Now that Biden has been replaced… they’re saying Biden being replaced was a low percentage gamble. Something here doesn’t add up.
No one is gonna admit they were wrong and mean to people when they are obviously the good guy and being good means never making mistakes.
Over inflated egos that think morality means perfection and leave no room for nuance. Simple. Fucked up American exceptionalism in the Democratic party as much as anywhere else.
because all available history and information basically assured that it was
That’s actually just not true. It’s pretty interesting, but the main reason incumbents have such a high chance of re-election is because exactly this happened with most incumbents that had a low chance already: They got cut out by the party. So there has always been natural cherry-picking that only the “good” incumbents went on to actually be the nominee again (and therefore had a disproportionally high rate of winning).
Although I originally also thought otherwise, when looking at all the data, this was the rational & correct choice.
While I appreciate data, nothing I see at a glance is very supportive of an incumbent potus dropping out being a good idea. I dont have much time to dig into it right now, but of the two incumbents they highlight in the article, both were VPs that assumed the office after an assassination, and in both elections, the incumbent party lost the white house. Neither are particularly similar to the situation in 2024, nor do they suggest that pulling the incumbent would be a good idea.
womp womp i knew it. something about having a cadaver up on stage just spoke to me…
Maybe you’re some kind of genius… Maybe it was that whole polls showing both Biden and Trump being beaten by not just any other Democrat or republican, they were polling under THEORETICAL OPPONENTS. Each of them could have been beaten by the THOUGHT of a different candidate.
fr tho im dumb as shit i just knew how to read is all it was 😭
doesn’t mean people were wrong
This monologue of yours doesn’t mean they weren’t.
Just say “I am not going to apologize and move on…”
Why should they apologize?
Because that’s the theme of the post we are discussing…
The only reservation I had was that the democrats would pick a worse candidate. Because democrats always do that shit.
Harris’ takeover has been an an absolute success, but anyone claiming they knew it’d work out this way is lying or delusional.
This is cope. It was obvious.
“Cope” lol. Take some time offline. You obviously need it.
it all worked out
ARGH DON’T JINX IT
It’s so fucking gross seeing people act like this over something so serious. The same people would have been unbelievably indignant had they turned out to be wrong, like the absolute children that they are.
Raise your hand if you were called a Russian bot for daring to question Biden
There’s still plenty of time for you to become a Russian bot. Never give up on your dreams!
I guess the Russian bots are downvoting you.
I got so much shit on Lemmy for saying Biden should drop after his debate. Was literally called a Russian bot multiple times.
🙋♂️
Questioning him in public forums felt like it would’ve helped that very bad man. I’m glad the Joenors applied pressure - that’s very appropriate, e.g. donors calling out that garbage debate behind closed doors.
I mean we should be questioning Trump’s aptitude every chance we get for the same reasons they were doing it - it makes him look weak, it generates more discussion and therefore more doubt, and it drives down voter enthusiasm.
The reason nobody questions Trump is because there is no question. He is incompetent. Questioning it like questioning if the sky is blue. The only people who don’t know he is incompetent are those who have lost all touch with reality. There is no swaying them because simple things like facts mean nothing to them so what is the point of continuing to shout the same things that every remotionally rational person already knows.
At least arguing about biden can lead to some actual change as we can see by the fact he isn’t running anymore. We can’t change the republicans but we can make the democrat party better so hopefully they can win.
my hand fucking shattered against the ceiling after reading this comment
Russian bot is the new Godwin’s Law. Nazis are common now and easy to spot. But even a leftist argument that’s arguably suboptimal will be interpreted as a Russian bot.
Well Russian bots were spreading the same rhetoric since they were trying to undermine Biden’s campaign in order to get their Russian asset to win.
Just glad those bots helped the Democrats in the long run even if they didn’t mean it. It has been a lot more quiet from those fronts since the change.
Right… Because Trump definitely didn’t want to go up against Biden so much that he begs for him back. Still gonna just excuse yourself by imagining it was bots cause it’s easier than questioning your warped view of reality. I get it.
Not quiet cause the Democrats and left that wanted the change got it and therefore didn’t need to keep raising the point against dismissal and denial… Sure.
yeah for sure the russian bots were pushing rhetoric that would replace literally the worst possible candidate to beat trump with someone better. that’s totally real and a strategy that was happening.
It’s the equivalent of people walking by a bunch of Russians beating a politician in the street and jumping in to help them acting like you were doing it for a better candidate… That nobody know who one was… When nobody even ran against the candidate… The parting yourself on the back when some MUST step in them patting yourself on the back because we lucked the fuck out and Democratic Leadership actually nutted up including having the guy that got his ass beat basically give up because he was battered.
Over and fucking over again.
Crust, that was pathetic low bar dismissal.
lol my favorite were those hiding behind Alan Lichtman… The guy who didn’t predict a winner at the time yet and whose pre-prediction endorsement in 2016 was Hillary before later saying she’d lose lol.
You should see some of my submissions of focus groups post-debate insta-downvoted lol.
I’ve already apologized here, but I’ll do it again. I’m sorry. I was wrong. I didn’t think there was enough time to generate the support needed. I’m really impressed by Kamala’s campaign effectiveness.
accepted
Yeah, I admit, that was me. I think the rapid political cycle in news made me think the election was closer than it was.
thx for being a real one
I was wrong, and happy to be so now.
slay
I’ll take the L.
I legitimately thought there’d be no way for them to be able to campaign enough in just a few months and I’ll gladly admit I was wrong.
sorry for the L, but i think we’re both glad you’re taking it :)
From an external viewpoint, how the fuck can it cost so much to run one campaign. Even in the uk, we are legally capped at 19 million pounds.
Because our country is ran by oligarchs. Money is god here and if you don’t worship the almighty dollar you’re probably gonna have a bad time.
Well so is ours
Some of your oligarchs were taught what happens when the serfs revolt, and don’t want beheading to become the national past time again
true. Doesn’t excuse the fact that some families have estates literally traceable over 900 years back. And any protest we muster wil be stopped by the rain nowdays.
Take a look at your police force and healthcare and say that again.
At least your oligarchs have some empathy. Over here they’ll kill you for $5.
Well they just refuse to invest. Take the examples you gave:
- We have healthcare, but there is a hospital in which obese patients cannot go on one of the floors because it will collapse.
- The police are well meaning but we cannot fit criminals in prison and have to release them early.
I was definitely in the camp of “Biden shouldn’t drop out” not because I wanted Biden to be President, but mostly because the people who wanted him to drop out just kinda hand waved away what happened after he dropped out.
They tossed about a few names that they favored and Harris wasn’t really on that list. People gave her a pass or offered some soft criticism, but she wasn’t on people’s short list.
While I’m very glad that Harris has really shone, I think that surprised a lot of people, there was still the opportunity for the DNC to fuck everything up and put together a ticket that would have been underwhelming. Luckily that didn’t happen.
I think this is an incredibly lucky “I told ya so”, the gamble worked out, but IMO it could have gone the other way far too easily.
Thank you. I was in the same boat. Did I want Biden President again? Not really. But there were no alternatives at the time and I thought that Harris wasn’t exactly getting the recognition when people wanted to just drop Biden.
I’m glad I’m wrong about staying with Biden. I’m happier that Harris has taken up the mantle. I just hope that it’s enough to drive turnout.
Yeah, this is the correct take here. Trying to pretend that this was the plan all along is disingenuous. There was no plan other than ‘Biden bad’.
The fact that Kamala Harris has clutched momentum and has good odds came out of literally nowhere, as did Harris herself.
It also can’t be ignored that the ‘Biden bad’ message was being pushed hard artificially by billionaires and Russia, which didn’t exactly fill a lot of Democrats with hope that it was a realistic option.
We lucked out.
we did not luck out and the plan was not “biden bad.”
the plan was “biden is increasingly showing age and is actively losing an election that should be easy to win. polling shows that any other generic nominee does better than joseph robinette biden, so the logical next step is to replace him with his vice president.”
the trouble is we said that, and you didn’t listen. i was actively scoffed at and called a nazi for saying the above. poll data that showed proof of the above was downvoted and called manipulation. even when the donors started stepping down, it was still called fraudulent and irrelevant. i never hand waved someone asking me who replaces biden, and i always responded harris especially as the time got later. and again i was downvoted and scoffed at for that.
this was not luck, and you should start actively listening to people you disagree with more because you display some saddening signs of intentional ignorance here.
wish i got this well thought out and measured of a response 4 months ago. instead it was me getting called. “russian bot” “useful idiot” “MAGA troll” 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️ me being “lucky” or not, did not justify that level of toxicity. thanks for this post tho
I actually had someone go back to one of my comment chains explaining that we needed to push Biden to drop and apologize for their negativity and hostility towards the notion.
I think that is an absolute rarity of self awareness from anyone and I’ll take the win of knowing there is at least 1 person out there that walked away with a change positive mindset.
…Wish it was more… But taking the win.
wait i love this actually
Yeah, I also was very vocal about this. The democrats that attacked this idea were fucking mean about it.
Absolutely grossly cruel about their disdain to anyone disagreeing and now just fully onboard without so much as a glance back at the wake of abuse left.
Honestly the Democrats can be exactly the same kind of bullies for like minded party thinking as the Republicans its just their shit apparently doesn’t stink quite as much to have to take notice of it.
right like if you weren’t mean about it, no need to apologize. but there was so much shit being thrown around it was quite sad actually
I was saying that before he dropped, I was wrong, you were right. Brilliant even. This has been not only the right move, but a huge shot in the arm for voter turnout and engagement. We would have lost this if everyone listened to me. I’ll be more open minded going forward. Thank you.
thank you, it’s good to be heard and acknowledged for once :)
Reminder that anything that currently makes you feel happy and content in saving american democracy is likely a conservative psy-op designed to keep you home on voting day.
Remain scared citizen, remain frantic until after voting day. Feel free to relax afterwards.
You need people engaged and energized to show up to vote. Optimism is unfortunately a huge help in every case.
My feeling right after the Biden-Trump debate was pretty much the same as my feeling after the Harris-Trump debate: I do not understand what the American electorate wants, and I can’t predict their behavior. I was horrified by Biden’s performance, but I couldn’t say if that would matter. I was really pleased with Harris’ performance, and I’m glad that it seems to be pushing things in the right direction, but by Odin’s beard I cannot fathom how Trump could have a political career at all, let alone what it will take to really change the minds of anyone who is still undecided at this point. I’ll take what I can get, but I can’t predict the mental workings of undecided voters in Arizona, Georgia, or Wisconsin.
drop … out? drop dead? drop trow? drop a new single?
DROP WHAT???
Drop that ass and let that booty shake. Let’s go Joe!
Watch that booty bop when the bass drop
I’d listen to a Joe Biden single lol. Wonder if he’d try a dis track back at Bo Burnham lol
drop that tar pitch
She’s hasn’t won yet.
Kamala Harris hasn’t won, no. But I think she’s already achieved enough momentum that if she loses, it will be safe to say that Joe Biden would have also lost.
That’s a reasonable assumption, but just because it’s reasonable doesn’t mean it’s true.
I mean, literally all of the common reasons to not vote for Biden are gone.
Anyone who said Biden should drop was right as fuck. I was doubtful that it would work out for Kamala due to how racist people can be but it’s going so well so far.
I was doubtful because it seemed like he wouldn’t drop out so intense opposition immediately after the primaries seemed like dooming us to 4 more years of trump. He did, it was a risky gamble and just because it worked out doesn’t mean I don’t stand by my thought processes and my absolute dread.
Oh yeah man. This shit is too risky.
Yeah, I was in the “Biden should drop, but I am gonna vote for him if he doesn’t, because I don’t have a better choice” camp.
I’m positive I didn’t yell at you but we should listen to you more often is my take.
as we all know i am the only correct person on this site
