Is it simply impossible for you to imagine that other peoples have different opinions and viewpoints on things?
Just because it’s been ingrained into you that arabs are bad and they are all “shithole countries” or hezbollah is evil, doesn’t mean that others share that view. Ask yourself: Does Lebanon and Iran and Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?
And no that doesn’t mean I agree with either of those groups. I just realize that framing everything as a fight of good vs evil like it’s some fantasy movie where you can just slay the mindless orcs. These are human beings sick of imperialist aggression. Do you expect them to just lie down? Solutions are complicated and don’t involve just killing everyone who opposes you.
So of course Iran would have communication channels with Hezbollah or even support them.
The problem isn’t that my argument is weak, it’s that I have to make it in the first place. It’s fucking obvious except to the severely brainwashed, and then there is little point of making it instead of mocking them.
Is it simply impossible for you to imagine that other peoples have different opinions and viewpoints on things?
There are an infinity of viewpoints, and many (most?) of them will be wrong.
“Lebanon, Iran and the Palestinians can defend themselves” is not wrong.
“Lebanon and Iran are currently defending themselves” is wrong.
Lebanon isn’t even included in this, Hezbollah is not Lebanon. Iran is attacking Israel. They could stop doing that anytime and have Israel leave them alone. That includes giving up on their uranium enrichment.
Palestinians are a much more complicated situation, because the settler land theft is agression from Israel and should have stopped decades ago. But the current Palestinian leaders (both Hamas and Fatah) don’t actually care to solve that. They would rather have their citizens continue to die so they can continue getting richer. Which is why they encourage deadly attacks on civilian which will keep Netanyahu and his ilk in power, because Israelis like all humans tend to respond to violence with violence.
These are human beings sick of imperialist aggression.
Bullshit. How can you be so blind? Iran is led by right-wing theocrats leaders, they would be imperialist themselves if they could afford to. Actually they are, since they supported Syria when it fucking invaded Lebanon for 30 years. And then left Hezbollah to continue controlling the place, where it has more influence than the actual Lebanese governement, which is supposed to represent the Lebanese people.
Hezbollah does not act in the interest of the Lebanese people, they are murderous thugs that obey their masters in Tehran. If they truly wanted to help Lebanese people, they would not be shooting at Israel. There are so many things in terrible shape in Lebanon they could be fixing, but no, they are a large part of the problem because they want control over making things better.
Iran is attacking Israel. They could stop doing that anytime and have Israel leave them alone. That includes giving up on their uranium enrichment.
This is the ingrained propaganda that is clouding your understanding. Iran always complied (reasonably) with the NPT and seeks peaceful use of nuclear power. Just as Iraq didn’t have WMDs. These lies are framing their resistance and defense against imperialist aggression as aggression on their side.
Obviously Iran isn’t as nice and democratic, post racist and secular as the USA (/s) but they do have the right to defend themselves. Hezbollah is their tool. The US and Israel has theirs.
No argument here, that’s just America doing American things. I’d have Bush and his whole admin at the Hague if it was up to me. Not that Saddam deserved better, but the Iraqi did.
Last paragraph.
And you’re right, Iran has a right to defend themselves. But they aren’t defending themselves in this situation. You don’t defend yourself by having a proxy invade then another take control of a country so you can have it lob missiles at a third one without endangering yourself.
Norouzi’s translation of the Persian quote reads; “the Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.”
I could also quote a lot of radical garbage from Bush or other worse nutjobs in the US. Some quote meant for internal consumption inside a country does not represent Iranian foreign policy.
And a lot of liberals, progressives and socialists agree that the fascist Israeli apartheid regime needs to be ended and stop oppressing the human beings in the territories they occupy and control as basically open air prisons. They need to stop violating international law. They need to stop with their terrorism and crimes against humanity.
Israel is basically a failed state. The only solution now is a 1 state solution for Palestine-Israel after a period of “de-nazification” of Israel.
Again, you really should try to comprehend that other people might have a different viewpoint of the “benevolent terrorism” by the USA and Israel. You probably have a hard time picturing them as human beings with their own thoughts and ideas and loves and families. They see they are suffering at the hands of imperialist terrorist regimes and of course they fight back.
I literally gave you a link from the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting, the national iranian broadcaster, whose head is appointed by Khamenei directly. If it is a wrong translation, they were the ones that made it. And by reading your own link, do you really give any presumption of innocence to someone who speaks at a Holocaust Denial Conference??
Plus what internal consumption. If you say out loud “this country should not exist anymore” with a history of threats against that country, you should not get nuclear weapons. You can’t justify this because you were speaking to extremist elements inside your country. If anything that’s a counterargument.
could also quote a lot of radical garbage from Bush or other worse nutjobs in the US
I don’t think the US deserves nuclear weapons either for that matter. Bush is a war criminal like Khameini is and I’d have them trialed decades ago if I had any say about it.
Israel is basically a failed state. The only solution now is a 1 state solution for Palestine-Israel after a period of “de-nazification” of Israel.
Yes, this is a pretty good example of someone having a different opinion than me. On the contrary of what you say, I can indeed picture you as a human being with your own thoughts and ideas and family that you love. But your opinion is as true as the Catholic Church’s (also made of real people) was on heliocentrism.
Why are you changing the topic? Yes, Israel using the situation to expand into palestinian territory is also despicable. But that doesn’t magically make military, militia or terrorist attacks against Israel an act of defense.
If you want to condemn Israel’s actions then the bare minimal requirement is not being even worse. At which countries openly supporting terrorists and calling for the destruction of a neighbouring country fail by definition.
Worse? We have numbers for the respective body counts. They probably killed more Palestinian children in the last 8 months alone than Israeli victims in the entire history of terrorism against Israel.
Israel had decades of superior military power to culturally genocide re-educate Palestinians and create peace. Instead they chose fascism, oppression, and violence against their neighbors.
And again you changed the topic and now it’s about body count and not who actually attacked the other and who is defending themselves.
If you need to redefine a problem every single time you try to make a point either your answer is simplified bullshit or you start with your conclusion and then adapt everything else to support it.
not who actually attacked the other and who is defending themselves.
I will give you a hint, the Israelis siezed lands by force as part of the formation of Israel, expelling or killing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians.
Everything following that action has been defence by the regional populace.
So you are indeed denying Israel the right to defend themselves or even exist… yet you are trying to argue as if your were actually reasonable and weren’t advocating for just another genocide.
Are you saying seizing other people’s lands, and expelling them, gives you the right to exist there? The zionists entered a place that was decolonizing from the British, and began buying land, that was already occupied, from the British, then began expanding, refusing to hire, or do business with, anyone who wasn’t jewish, and expelling the people originally there. You claim that imperialist expansionism is bad, but the moment someone points out that this behavior is the root of this conflict, you jump to the side of the colonizers. You can’t have it both ways. Either you are fine with colonial expansionism, or you agree that people being colonized can route the colonizers.
Is it simply impossible for you to imagine that other peoples have different opinions and viewpoints on things?
Just because it’s been ingrained into you that arabs are bad and they are all “shithole countries” or hezbollah is evil, doesn’t mean that others share that view. Ask yourself: Does Lebanon and Iran and Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?
And no that doesn’t mean I agree with either of those groups. I just realize that framing everything as a fight of good vs evil like it’s some fantasy movie where you can just slay the mindless orcs. These are human beings sick of imperialist aggression. Do you expect them to just lie down? Solutions are complicated and don’t involve just killing everyone who opposes you.
So of course Iran would have communication channels with Hezbollah or even support them.
The problem isn’t that my argument is weak, it’s that I have to make it in the first place. It’s fucking obvious except to the severely brainwashed, and then there is little point of making it instead of mocking them.
There are an infinity of viewpoints, and many (most?) of them will be wrong.
Lebanon isn’t even included in this, Hezbollah is not Lebanon. Iran is attacking Israel. They could stop doing that anytime and have Israel leave them alone. That includes giving up on their uranium enrichment.
Palestinians are a much more complicated situation, because the settler land theft is agression from Israel and should have stopped decades ago. But the current Palestinian leaders (both Hamas and Fatah) don’t actually care to solve that. They would rather have their citizens continue to die so they can continue getting richer. Which is why they encourage deadly attacks on civilian which will keep Netanyahu and his ilk in power, because Israelis like all humans tend to respond to violence with violence.
Bullshit. How can you be so blind? Iran is led by right-wing theocrats leaders, they would be imperialist themselves if they could afford to. Actually they are, since they supported Syria when it fucking invaded Lebanon for 30 years. And then left Hezbollah to continue controlling the place, where it has more influence than the actual Lebanese governement, which is supposed to represent the Lebanese people.
Hezbollah does not act in the interest of the Lebanese people, they are murderous thugs that obey their masters in Tehran. If they truly wanted to help Lebanese people, they would not be shooting at Israel. There are so many things in terrible shape in Lebanon they could be fixing, but no, they are a large part of the problem because they want control over making things better.
This is the ingrained propaganda that is clouding your understanding. Iran always complied (reasonably) with the NPT and seeks peaceful use of nuclear power. Just as Iraq didn’t have WMDs. These lies are framing their resistance and defense against imperialist aggression as aggression on their side.
Obviously Iran isn’t as nice and democratic, post racist and secular as the USA (/s) but they do have the right to defend themselves. Hezbollah is their tool. The US and Israel has theirs.
I see you aren’t engaging most of my comment. That’s fine, hopefully it made you think at least.
You can’t claim things like “Israel must be wiped off the map” (Iranian source before you continue with the propaganda accusations) and pretend you are enriching uranium over the needed amount for civilian use for peaceful purposes.
No argument here, that’s just America doing American things. I’d have Bush and his whole admin at the Hague if it was up to me. Not that Saddam deserved better, but the Iraqi did.
And you’re right, Iran has a right to defend themselves. But they aren’t defending themselves in this situation. You don’t defend yourself by having a proxy invade then another take control of a country so you can have it lob missiles at a third one without endangering yourself.
And again you are victim of racist propaganda in the US. This is a mistranslation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel
I could also quote a lot of radical garbage from Bush or other worse nutjobs in the US. Some quote meant for internal consumption inside a country does not represent Iranian foreign policy.
And a lot of liberals, progressives and socialists agree that the fascist Israeli apartheid regime needs to be ended and stop oppressing the human beings in the territories they occupy and control as basically open air prisons. They need to stop violating international law. They need to stop with their terrorism and crimes against humanity.
Israel is basically a failed state. The only solution now is a 1 state solution for Palestine-Israel after a period of “de-nazification” of Israel.
Again, you really should try to comprehend that other people might have a different viewpoint of the “benevolent terrorism” by the USA and Israel. You probably have a hard time picturing them as human beings with their own thoughts and ideas and loves and families. They see they are suffering at the hands of imperialist terrorist regimes and of course they fight back.
I literally gave you a link from the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting, the national iranian broadcaster, whose head is appointed by Khamenei directly. If it is a wrong translation, they were the ones that made it. And by reading your own link, do you really give any presumption of innocence to someone who speaks at a Holocaust Denial Conference??
Plus what internal consumption. If you say out loud “this country should not exist anymore” with a history of threats against that country, you should not get nuclear weapons. You can’t justify this because you were speaking to extremist elements inside your country. If anything that’s a counterargument.
I don’t think the US deserves nuclear weapons either for that matter. Bush is a war criminal like Khameini is and I’d have them trialed decades ago if I had any say about it.
Yes, this is a pretty good example of someone having a different opinion than me. On the contrary of what you say, I can indeed picture you as a human being with your own thoughts and ideas and family that you love. But your opinion is as true as the Catholic Church’s (also made of real people) was on heliocentrism.
“Defend” themselves against Israel daring to exist?
Right, Israel just needs a bit more lebensraum in the east / the west bank.
Why are you changing the topic? Yes, Israel using the situation to expand into palestinian territory is also despicable. But that doesn’t magically make military, militia or terrorist attacks against Israel an act of defense.
If you want to condemn Israel’s actions then the bare minimal requirement is not being even worse. At which countries openly supporting terrorists and calling for the destruction of a neighbouring country fail by definition.
Worse? We have numbers for the respective body counts. They probably killed more Palestinian children in the last 8 months alone than Israeli victims in the entire history of terrorism against Israel.
Israel had decades of superior military power to
culturally genocidere-educate Palestinians and create peace. Instead they chose fascism, oppression, and violence against their neighbors.And again you changed the topic and now it’s about body count and not who actually attacked the other and who is defending themselves.
If you need to redefine a problem every single time you try to make a point either your answer is simplified bullshit or you start with your conclusion and then adapt everything else to support it.
I will give you a hint, the Israelis siezed lands by force as part of the formation of Israel, expelling or killing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians.
Everything following that action has been defence by the regional populace.
So you are indeed denying Israel the right to defend themselves or even exist… yet you are trying to argue as if your were actually reasonable and weren’t advocating for just another genocide.
Are you saying seizing other people’s lands, and expelling them, gives you the right to exist there? The zionists entered a place that was decolonizing from the British, and began buying land, that was already occupied, from the British, then began expanding, refusing to hire, or do business with, anyone who wasn’t jewish, and expelling the people originally there. You claim that imperialist expansionism is bad, but the moment someone points out that this behavior is the root of this conflict, you jump to the side of the colonizers. You can’t have it both ways. Either you are fine with colonial expansionism, or you agree that people being colonized can route the colonizers.