I know someone who was born in Palestine (but spent most of his life in the US) who will be voting for Trump because, and these are his words, “I just think he’ll be better”.
I doubt he is hopped on Russian propaganda. It comes from the fact that the Middle East was much more stable under Trump (who’s government did try to deescalate tension) versus Biden who called himself a Zionist and supplied weapons used to carry out a genocide.
Any “but… but” won’t ever make the above statement true regardless if Trump becoming president is the worse outcome for Palestine.
Trump’s attempt at making other Muslim countries make peace with Israel without properly addressing the Palestinian question is something Hamas cited as part of their ‘casus belli’, the reason they attacked Israel. They feared that if their supposed “allies” made peace, the Palestinian cause would be lost.
Trump didn’t really deescalate tensions, rather he provoked some (e.g. the embassy move) and he tried to ignore other rising tensions because addressing those would be too difficult. One can easily argue his actions were the indirect cause of the current mess.
Yes. These major decisions have long-term effects. But note I did say indirect cause; the full reason is multi-faceted and very complex, and hard to pin down on just one person. But it certainly played a big part if Hamas directly named it as such.
My biggest concern is taking Biden out of the blame. Are other countries going mad for suggesting Biden has participiated in war crimes? Are you suggesting Biden did something different? If Biden did the same thing, wouldn’t it be Biden’s fault as he did it for three years after Trump left office?
Trump is a horrible human being but why would he blame him for something someone else caused?
Biden should get his share of the blame for what happened after October 7th. But he wasn’t the initial cause of what happened that day.
Biden did not really do all that much when it came to ME relations. He was considerably busier with Ukraine so the ME got less interest during his admin.
Trump took the major steps, e.g. the moving of the embassy, the attempts to broker peace between KSA and Israel (which of course there are rumours he/his kids personally profited from), he openly challenged Iran without much repercussions, etc… All signalling to Hamas that their cause had little chance of succeeding as their international support was clearly eroding away.
Biden didn’t reverse course, but there was little to do here. Looks bad to reverse a peace agreement or cave to Iran or to move an embassy out of Jerusalem. Not that I think he had the foresight that Hamas’d do this either. I doubt he even gave it much thought due to being preoccupied with Ukraine.
.et’s be real about the embassy moving , Trump only made the status quo more official with that move. Obama already said Jerusalem was the capital of Israel.
During the last debate between Biden and Trump, Biden gloated about how miserable he has treated Iran during his presidency.
But it’s hard to deny the cold reality of your comment: You are openly supporting a politician who you admit is genocidal, and you are getting upvoted for it.
The “lesser of two evils” logic continues to deteriorate the quality of our candidates and their responsiveness to the wishes of the American people.
Do you see a way, in the future, to break out of this “lesser of two evils” death spiral? Or in 2032 will you be supporting Zombie Reagan(D) because he is less evil than Zombie Hitler®?
In our current system we don’t really have a choice. FPTP basically ensures there will only be two viable candidates and they’ll come from the established parties.
If his version of ‘better’ involves MOABs and a giant set of smoking craters in the Middle East, then yes. Trump was the one that launched all those tomahawks on that base and assassinated an Iranian general unprovoked, though, so we kind of already know his MO. In addition to dropping that MOAB in Afghanistan.
There’s only one choice this fall, and it certainly isn’t Trump.
I wouldn’t exactly call that assassination unprovoked. That specific general had led the Quds Force in operations that caused the deaths of hundreds of US soldiers and the injuries of tens of thousands of other soldiers. Then there’s the many, many other operations that the Quds Force have engaged in as part of Iran’s proxy wars in the region. He definitely earned a spot on the shit list.
Was it a wise decision to target him? I don’t know. But he had done plenty to deserve his fate.
How can you say the rhetoric isn’t better when his rhetoric includes sending anyone who complains to Palestine to be killed with them? He’s literally threatened to kill you for complaining about the war. Had biden threatened to send you into the genocide fields for having the gaul to complain?
I know someone who was born in Palestine (but spent most of his life in the US) who will be voting for Trump because, and these are his words, “I just think he’ll be better”.
Not even worth having the convo.
He knows Trump used ‘Palestinian’ as a slur, right?
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/06/trump-biden-debate-palestinian-israel/
Lmao. Insanity. Man is hella hyped on Russian propaganda. Did he forget about Jerusalem?
I doubt he is hopped on Russian propaganda. It comes from the fact that the Middle East was much more stable under Trump (who’s government did try to deescalate tension) versus Biden who called himself a Zionist and supplied weapons used to carry out a genocide.
Any “but… but” won’t ever make the above statement true regardless if Trump becoming president is the worse outcome for Palestine.
Trump’s attempt at making other Muslim countries make peace with Israel without properly addressing the Palestinian question is something Hamas cited as part of their ‘casus belli’, the reason they attacked Israel. They feared that if their supposed “allies” made peace, the Palestinian cause would be lost.
Trump didn’t really deescalate tensions, rather he provoked some (e.g. the embassy move) and he tried to ignore other rising tensions because addressing those would be too difficult. One can easily argue his actions were the indirect cause of the current mess.
Three years after he left office?
Yes. These major decisions have long-term effects. But note I did say indirect cause; the full reason is multi-faceted and very complex, and hard to pin down on just one person. But it certainly played a big part if Hamas directly named it as such.
My biggest concern is taking Biden out of the blame. Are other countries going mad for suggesting Biden has participiated in war crimes? Are you suggesting Biden did something different? If Biden did the same thing, wouldn’t it be Biden’s fault as he did it for three years after Trump left office?
Trump is a horrible human being but why would he blame him for something someone else caused?
Biden should get his share of the blame for what happened after October 7th. But he wasn’t the initial cause of what happened that day.
Biden did not really do all that much when it came to ME relations. He was considerably busier with Ukraine so the ME got less interest during his admin.
Trump took the major steps, e.g. the moving of the embassy, the attempts to broker peace between KSA and Israel (which of course there are rumours he/his kids personally profited from), he openly challenged Iran without much repercussions, etc… All signalling to Hamas that their cause had little chance of succeeding as their international support was clearly eroding away.
Biden didn’t reverse course, but there was little to do here. Looks bad to reverse a peace agreement or cave to Iran or to move an embassy out of Jerusalem. Not that I think he had the foresight that Hamas’d do this either. I doubt he even gave it much thought due to being preoccupied with Ukraine.
.et’s be real about the embassy moving , Trump only made the status quo more official with that move. Obama already said Jerusalem was the capital of Israel.
During the last debate between Biden and Trump, Biden gloated about how miserable he has treated Iran during his presidency.
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Hate to break it to you, but Trump is all in on that genocide. Plus there’s, you know, everything else that makes Trump terrible.
You’re obviously right, Trump is worse.
But it’s hard to deny the cold reality of your comment: You are openly supporting a politician who you admit is genocidal, and you are getting upvoted for it.
The “lesser of two evils” logic continues to deteriorate the quality of our candidates and their responsiveness to the wishes of the American people.
Do you see a way, in the future, to break out of this “lesser of two evils” death spiral? Or in 2032 will you be supporting Zombie Reagan(D) because he is less evil than Zombie Hitler®?
In our current system we don’t really have a choice. FPTP basically ensures there will only be two viable candidates and they’ll come from the established parties.
Ah the good old “but you support Hitler” debating line. Glad to see the mental acuity amongst the Republican supporters matching their leader.
Ah the good old “but you support Trump” debating line. Truly you are a paragon of mental acuity.
Both candidates support Israel so pick another fucking issue.
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If his version of ‘better’ involves MOABs and a giant set of smoking craters in the Middle East, then yes. Trump was the one that launched all those tomahawks on that base and assassinated an Iranian general unprovoked, though, so we kind of already know his MO. In addition to dropping that MOAB in Afghanistan.
There’s only one choice this fall, and it certainly isn’t Trump.
I wouldn’t exactly call that assassination unprovoked. That specific general had led the Quds Force in operations that caused the deaths of hundreds of US soldiers and the injuries of tens of thousands of other soldiers. Then there’s the many, many other operations that the Quds Force have engaged in as part of Iran’s proxy wars in the region. He definitely earned a spot on the shit list.
Was it a wise decision to target him? I don’t know. But he had done plenty to deserve his fate.
You know they have a big brain because of all the mental gymnastics they do all day, every day
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How can you say the rhetoric isn’t better when his rhetoric includes sending anyone who complains to Palestine to be killed with them? He’s literally threatened to kill you for complaining about the war. Had biden threatened to send you into the genocide fields for having the gaul to complain?
Good comment, but in case anyone is wondering,
“gall”, as in gall bladder, as in ‘strong stomach’. Gauls did get stereotyped by romans as complainers I guess.