Essentially, there have been two reactions over on grad today:
- I didn’t vote, neither of the candidates were going to stop the war in the Gaza Strip, therefore, there could be no good outcome for the US, therefore I can’t be held accountable
- I voted for a third party, which Republicans will have to acknowledge and respect
I’m foreign, keeping out of the inevitable political arguments. Just be mindful of the rules and report those who break em
The tide is sure as fuck going to be shifted. They got that part right.
If you want a preview about how any of these dummies that are actually in the US are going to behave, look for the reaction of the civilian Germans after World War 2. For the most part, it was, “This is awful and unfair, I can’t believe they would be so mean to us, when we didn’t even do anything.”
Please do not compare Nazi Germany to the US. The Holocaust was and is very real to a lot of people and you are disrespecting those who were murdered.
You can hate the US all you want. Just don’t casually about talk Nazi Germany like it was some random historical event. Millions of people died.
There are people who went through the holocaust who compared Trump in 2016 to Hitler. They, if anyone, understand the gravity of the comparison, and made it a little bit carefully. But they said that the way he speaks, the way everyone who is his enemy is an animal who must be destroyed, is very similar.
I’d like to spin your argument into the other direction.
During the 3rd Reich and the years leading up to it, Hitler used the financial crisis, poverty and unemplyment to emtionalize people in order to make them vote for the NSDAP. His party/regime used a psudoscientific and non-factual ideology to dehumanize a part of the population. In this case most prominently jews but other ethnicities, gays, lesbians, disabled, too.
Let’s compare this to Trump and see how accurate the comparison is. There is a financial crisis right now, not as bad as the great depression, but a lot of people in America struggle to meet month’s end from what I understand. Trump uses this, talking about tarrifs and boosting the american economy. He also doesn’t rely on facts or logic in his program. He claims bizarre things like “windmills will give you cancer through the sound they emit” to push against renewable energy and the protection of climate and nature. He also dehumanizes parts of the american population. In his first term he banned Muslims from entering the US. using the already very latent distrust/ hate against the muslim population. He called for a wall on the mexican border, claiming mexican immigrants are through and through criminals, alledgedly endangering US citizens, when in actuality southern states are highly dependent on these immigrants to take low wage jobs in agriculture. Also, as laughable as it is: “They eat the cats” is part of that, too. He also has follows an anti-lgbtq+ ideology.
Hitler of coursed lived in a different time and people back then faced slightly different problems, but the patterns are similar. The goals are similar. They both follow an ideology that values people differently, based on percieved usefullness to a nationalist image of society.
Not comparing right-extremist leaders to the third Reich, not holding them up against that is, disrespectful to those who suffered. Trump has not comitted a genocide, but the ideology he popularized opens the gates far and wide for abuse of any kind. So I believe that we should compare him to Hitler to make it very clear where his actions could very realistically lead.
I struggle to understand how they’re so delusional about their number of potential fighters.
That reaction was tune down, due to the country being occupied. It pretty much took the Nazis having to shut up for a few decades, by threat of prison to end up with a somewhat pro democracy population.
“There wasn’t a no genocide option, so I decided the more genocide option was fine.”
The lives of minorities aren’t worth a handful of minutes to tankie fucks.
“I’m white and don’t care, so what’s the difference between one genocide and three?”
Millions of lives.
But drag, how can we pretend to be superior to other leftists, if we aren’t enabling greater amounts of genocide? /s
If we forget the polarisation, could we kiss both slurping on the same 30ct instant ramen noodle? 👉 👈 (srs)
Probably a bunch of foreign agents over there anyways, doubt they got their hands on any ballots.
Lemmy: you should vote
Russians: Don’t mind if I do
(This is a joke as I’m not aware of any election tampering by Russia)
Imagine using JucheStalin unironically as your username…
In what way can you purge slavs more/faster than NK purges non-Juche Koreans?
Turbo-kim
This was my ex. A single issue voter about a war another country is waging. Fuck Israel but got damn letting Ukraine die because of your fuckin morals is ridiculous.
Lefties suck, they don’t have their way and don’t vote. This is why no progress happens.
Pretending that Shitface winning the election is good for Palestine is also just mind boggingly moronic. Zero sympathies, they brought this onto themselves.
Agreed
I wouldn’t call people like that a leftist. Left is progress, Right is conservatism. Their choices led to less progress so they’re not lefties.
They’re simply not very smart, and they’re impatient like children.
They helped genocide Palestinians!
Tankies have blood on their hands.
Likely they will be spared as long as they’re doing a terrific job at hurting the left in every way possible. Fidesz actually paid off the debts of a Tankie party, now they’re one of the satellites of that far-right party.
That’s hilarious, and matches my idea of what communist parties can tend to be like.
I know you’re all going to have to get this out of your system, so go ahead. Mock the leftists who stubbornly refused to vote for Kamala. Assign the blame for fascism taking over on those who could not see past their principles to the bigger picture (at least, as you see it). Eventually, you’re going to have to move on and acknowledge that the blame cannot fall solely on them.
I voted for Kamala Harris. I, like most of you, felt strongly that doing so was necessary to prevent a far worse outcome. In the short term. The truth is, those that you mock for failing to see what was so plain to you were looking past it to an even larger picture, and that is why they could not see the strategic necessity of their vote. Why they chose not to see it, just as many of you choose not to see something that is very plain to them, the inevitability of this outcome.
Kamala Harris began her campaign to thunderous applause from those who were hopeful that the Democratic Party was finally embracing progressive ideals, only to then abandon and insult those very same hopefuls while moving further to the right than even Biden dared go. Kamala Harris then also proceeded to approach the economically anxious right with the same limp-wristed and tired economic messaging that has consistently failed to address the concerns of the working class. She campaigned as a moderate old Republican, the very same that the Republican electorate abandoned in favor of Trump.
A large number of progressives and radical leftists saw this and surrendered. They sacrificed their hope for change and reform to preserve their principles, and embraced accelerationism where previously they resisted it. I felt what they felt but held onto hope not because I truly believed Kamala Harris would turn around, but because I feared that we were not ready. I voted for Kamala Harris because I wanted to buy just a little more time, but fascism is here now, and we’ve run out of time.
Accept responsibility, stop assigning blame, we can’t afford to. Accept responsibility not because you are at fault, but because no one else will.
embraced accelerationism where previously they resisted it
The “some of you will die but that’s a sacrifice that I’m willing to make” strategy that has no historical evidence, and in in fact a fair amount of counter evidence, that it had ever worked? That’s a bold move cotton. I sure am glad that people that I love and care about are all but certain to see untimely deaths because of it.
Accept responsibility, stop assigning blame, we can’t afford to. Accept responsibility not because you are at fault, but because no one else will.
Way ahead of you.
I made it clear that I don’t agree with their decision. I despise accelerationism as much as you do. I am trying to make the point that those who made the decision not to vote or to vote third party were driven to do so by a variety of factors that could have been avoided.
They should accept responsibility for the consequences of their decisions, but many of them are not, and it’s fair to be frustrated with that. Another who will not accept responsibility for this outcome is the Democratic party, and they will be very happy to shift blame to leftists who did not vote.
I despise accelerationism as much as you do.
<3. Sorry about that. It’s been a bit of an upsetting time.
Democratic party, and they will be very happy to shift blame to leftists who did not vote.
I mean, in this case, they are objectively correct when it comes to the statistics. The Right always wins when voters sit out elections and protest votes (and non-votes) only helped them in the current FPTP system.
The neolib captured Democratic party refusing to move left at all didn’t help but, lack of participation is what allowed it to happen in the first place. Our fellow leftists have continually decided to ignore the basic numbers and be swayed by propaganda suggesting ideological purity over concrete benefit to at-risk populations and demanding seats at the table. Maybe they’ll self-reflect and take responsibility for the consequences of their actions when they see the harms that they contributed to but, I’m not holding my breath as it hasn’t happened in my lifetime despite Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, and Rojava, not to mention the impending Project 2025.
The neolib captured Democratic party refusing to move left at all didn’t help but, lack of participation is what allowed it to happen in the first place.
Bit of a chicken or the egg situation, don’t you think? I recently watched a documentary about union coal miners in Harlan County, KY, and while watching it felt like I was watching a culture of resistance transition to a culture of defeat as a result of compounding traumas coinciding with minor improvements to material conditions that made it tempting to settle.
The left has had a culture of defeat for some time, and I believe we are now witnessing the early developmental stages of a new culture of resistance. It is young and naive, and chose too early to abandon electoralism entirely, but it will either mature or be stamped out by the fascism they thought they were ready to face. If we are to survive fascism we can’t hold grudges against one another for the errors in their judgment.
Thanks for the optimistic words. Definitely needed.
Maybe they’ll self-reflect and take responsibility for the consequences of their actions when they see the harms that they contributed to but, I’m not holding my breath as it hasn’t happened in my lifetime despite Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, and Rojava, not to mention the impending Project 2025.
Allow me to restore your hope a little bit:
Not all of them will, and those that do might take quite a while to get there, but it happens. Those who see others express such regrets will be inoculated against making the same error.
Yep still gonna mock those Dems that didn’t vote for Kamela. The only ppl who won here are old ppl with money.
Talking like there’s still a future to be changed. I’m so done with my own species.
Removed by mod
Even as someone who supports Israel, I’m not sure that emboldening wannabe dictator Bibi and his even more insane coalition partners further is good for Israel. Israel should be allowed to destroy the rapist horde that is Hamas. Israel should not be allowed to expand their illegal settlements (quite the opposite in fact) or to annex Gaza/the West Bank, but that’s exactly what Trump’s administration is gonna encourage.
Don’t forget Russia
Removed by mod
So is Israel conscripting its youth and making them go slaughter children.
Regarding third parties, leftists like to claim this giant reservoir of support just if Democrats listened to them, but they never show up in an election at all. Jill Stein and other leftist candidates didn’t win even a percent of the vote. Trump won an outright majority of the popular vote.
Why listen to a group that’s just a blip?
that and anything done is never enough so they are still going to teach them a lesson till they do enough, which again nothing is ever enough.
Like, didn’t Democrats actually get a lot done through a challenging Congress? The IRA is good and they’re handing off a just about recovered economy.
I think your thinking of a split congress where democrats control presidency or the houses or vice versa. Its rare for a single party to control the whole ball of wax.
Manchin and sinema say hello from the memory hole.
Exactly. There’s not much split vote because people listened, there’s no record low turnout from the looks of it so far, Democrats is set to lose no matter what because majority of american went out and voted for trump. Lefties always twist the fact to fit their view.
There literally is, though. Trump got nearly the same level of votes as in 2020, but Harris got over 10 million fewer votes than Biden. That’s objectively decreased turnout.
Might’ve spoke too soon about that. The vote still counting though, we’ll see the result soon.
It’s not just grad and hexbear. Beehaw is doing it too.
Positive vibes only space, my ass.
Blocked that annoying drag long ago. But damn that’s incredibly violent comment and especially in beehaw
Update: I never wanna hear anybody talk about how cool drag is ever again
I mean…drag is correct. The American fascist party has captured all three branches in entirety and announced that they will be ending democracy and committing genocide. So, I don’t see where you’re having a problem with drag’s statement, unless you’re trying to avoid self-reflection and taking responsibility for your own actions.
I like not killing people. Especially not civilians. Not killing civilians is cool.
We agree entirely there.
But, people are currently dying and will likely still be in larger numbers due to “allies” who care more about there own egos and performative leftism than other people. We’ve got a fascist party that has achieved, as of January, full control of the federal government and has stated that they’re going to do some genocide. The reasonable thing is to believe them.
That’s true. And yet, somehow, committing politically motivated murder remains pretty high on my list of things to not do.
I think that, perhaps, you’re not understanding. I didn’t read that as drag calling for politically-motivated murder. It was drag acknowledging that, if the fascists do a fraction of what they’ve promised, trans rights, women’s rights, LGBTQ+ rights, among many others are over in this country for the lifetimes of everyone currently living and probably several generations more.
This wasn’t just another “4 years until the next election”. Democracy and human rights are not going to be restored in this country through political means. That shit’s over because of non-voters and everyone else that refused to take it seriously.
Trump’s reign will only be ended by violence. We aren’t getting centrists’ and moderates’ help with that. They are the enemy. They are the complicit citizens of a nation we are going to war with. Some of them will try to stop us, and we need to be prepared to kill them.
Tell me how else I am supposed to interpret this, please.
Tell me how else I am supposed to interpret this, please.
I’d recommend reading Dr. King’s letter from Birmingham Jail. Drag is coming to terms with the fact that Dr. King was right but his statement also applies to the plight of all marginalized people.
In addition, once they’re in power, fascists do not voluntarily leave while they are still alive. I’m not personally calling for violence but, non-voters have helped to remove the ballot box as a tool for any meaningful change for anyone currently living or coming generations. The courts are gone along with any hope of free and fair elections. That’s something that you need to understand. A lot of people are in complete denial of that and will remain so as the pressure ramps up.
People who remain moderates and centrists are going to be those who inform on their trans and immigrant neighbors in order to try to keep out of the line of fire and keep pretending that everything is “normal”.
Drag is literally breaking serious laws lol, inb4 we get another arrest video comparable to ChrisChan’s conclusion.
“Don’t you remember how hyperbolic we were about McCain and Romney?”
No, I remember exactly what I said about Romney. That I feared his administration would bring in decreased workers’ rights, a damaged economy, and damage positive US influence on the world stage.
God, I hate these fuckwits trying to play ‘Trump is just another Republican’ games. In 2016, maybe it was forgivable in a stupid kind of way. Not now.
I don’t really think other Lemmy instances actually benefit from being federated with Beehaw - communities that ignore off-site downvotes are able to spread propaganda with far less effort than it takes the admins of other instances to delete it.
Their non-political communities are definitely alright.
Look, I also thought the whole “don’t vote” schtick was kinda annoying, but personally, I place most of the blame on:
a) those who actually pursued this outcome (fascists)
and
b) the DNC for their limp-dicked campaign strategy of being the Republicans-but-less-so while appealing to institutionalist values within an extremely populist cultural zeitgeist
appealing to institutionalist values within an extremely populist cultural zeitgeist
I feel this so much in my fucking bones. They’ve been doing that since Hillary’s campaign. I think I’ve given up hope that they’ll learn, considering they’ve had this long already.
We did it, Patrick! We saved Gaza!
They think they are for some higher value but in the end they’re just like this:
“stupid idiot victim of the system. why don’t you commit politically motivated violence like a cool person”
«I actually punched a sexist at a concert once, I’m doing infinitely more for the cause than your bullshit ‘voting’.»
