I want to point out how this (and I’m not doing this to single it you out, but you offer an example example of how a) lack of imagination about what is possible, is the precise kind of lack of vision that brought people to the conclusion that we “had” to support Biden in the primary, because you “can’t challenge an incumbent”: they were wrong. His brain was melting out of his ears and the establishment was telling you to not believe your lying eyes and ears. Authority takes advantage of this cynicisim and abuses you with it.
Its the kind of mindset that results in “Kamala has to be the nominee”, because she’s the only viable option; turns out, she wasn’t viable. We were told she had to turn to the right, to “get centrists”; turns out, there were no centrists. We were told her campaigning with Liz Cheney was 8d chess because she’ll get “never Trump Republicans”. How’d that work out.
We’ve been conditioned into a cynical fatalism, one that is truly not borne out by reality: it does not predict the future. I can not make that point any more emphatically. This toxic fatalism is in-opposition to the results we have on hand. New ways are possible, constantly. I have no problem with either cynicism or fatalism. However, I do have a problem with a world view being expressed which doesn’t predict future states of the world. BNMW, Blue Maga, the cynical fatalists who had elevated themselves into moderators of the Democratic process this election cycle: their cynical reductive fatalism is why Democrats can’t do better. Not because it isn’t possible, but because they refuse to ask for it, and for MONTHS they refused to allow the kinds of conversations necessary to carve and change a candidate like Harris into one who could get elected.
If anyone, here there or elsewhere, was suppressing speech challenging the narratives or strategies of the Harris campaign or Democratic party, challenges that would have led to a more viable candidate had they addressed them: these are the true enemies of democracy. There is a reason why Free Speech is the first amendment. It goes beyond what the government is allowed to do or not do: its about what we’re allowed to say or not allowed to say. Its about who has power, and who is allowed to challenge existing narratives. We can absolutely change this world, but first, we have to work on ourselves, and the communities we are a part of. This cynicism is a cancer we need to stamp out.
You have all the power you need to already to make the changes. If you need inspiration: Actions speak louder than words. You have to decide if you are part of the resistance or part of a costume party. Which is what some people, recently in the news, have decided.
The future is undefined. Pretending it isn’t is giving in.
There was no more viable candidate out there in the wings. Dems lost this race before it even started, we just didn’t know it yet, because the vote is decided by how folks in swing states feel about the sitting President’s economic performance—a performance, by the way, which was stellar when compared to other countries. Everything besides the economy is theater.
I wholeheartedly agree with you about one thing, though. Vote for change in local elections. Not necessarily other parties, but the most progressive candidates within the Democratic Party. Change the organization from the bottom up. Reshape it into a more progressive institution.
That’s an awful lot of words to say absolutely nothing. What’s your suggested alternative that will get the 70+ million votes you need to stand a chance at the presidential level? Because encouraging people not to vote obviously didn’t work it this time. Unless a Trump win was your goal all along.
Why are you focusing on the presidency? Oust the dems in Congress in even a few blue states and you’ll be able to do a lot. Hell, start local and gain legitimacy before going after federal office. There a lot of options other than voting democrats for everything all the time.
Because other than the libertarians in Grafton, they aren’t trying to build up any kind of legitimacy. The greens show up every four years as a spoiler but don’t do anything in the off years. Their list iof elected officials has ~150 people nation wide and half of those are things like “parks committee member”. If they were actually building legitimacy from the ground up like you suggest there would be far less criticism.
This is a problem with the greens, but it doesn’t mean the only option is to vote Democrat. If you don’t like the existent third parties, the answer should be to make or participate or one, not keep doing the same thing and hope the corporate stooges don’t drive the country into the ground.
It’s a problem for the greens who are a distant fourth place in numbers behind the libertarians who are trying to go the wrong direction. I’m not sure further splintering of third parties is going to help anything.
The far right has spent several decades dragging the Republican party to the right. Progressives can do the same to the Democrats if they actually show up.
You can add me to the list. I voted democrat this previous election in an effort to prevent *gestures around* this, but I didn’t want to for a number of reasons. I don’t trust the green party with Stein. I have no idea what I will do next election. I always vote for the most progressive “local” (I’m an overseas voter, but as long as I have to file taxes and get fucked by the IRS by not being able to use retirement accounts here, I’mma vote) candidate, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything other than D and R in my district except maybe an I once or twice.
Same. Every four years, I fight within myself on whether I should bother to vote. I’m an Independent voter and I base my decision by analyzing the political parties across the scope while realizing the reality of the world we’re living in alongside it.
And it gets tiring of the same old thing. I go and vote not Republican, I see some of the people in my circle vote Republican which makes me consider axing them to spare myself and they the drama of getting political. I get disparagingly cynical towards the American populace for their collective decision making or lack thereof considering we’re pitted again in this mess that’ll unfold in under a month.
I look at the ballots before making my predetermined choices - D, R, D, R, G, I in a blue moon, D, R like everywhere. Maybe I could’ve written someone in, maybe, but what good does that do except win meaningless brownie points?
Looking forward to another 4 years I’ll have a hard time remembering because of my mental efforts to block out the enormous amount of bullshit yet to come. Just like the last time between 2016 - 2021.
Shit like this (Pelosi putting her thumb on the scale) is why people are questioning if they’ll ever vote Democrat again.
Yep, 100% this is at Pelosi’s feet. Fuck Nancy Pelosi, and honsestly fuck every D Boomer in congress who won’t get out of the way for the younger generations. You are actively holding us back.
I did that for years with nothing to show for it. No one ever (metaphorically) came knocking on my door asking how they could win my vote away from a third party. None of the candidates I voted for even came close, except Ross Perot and if he couldn’t do it, I guarantee no one else can. That dude’s whiteboard presentations were watched by 16.5 million people in an age where there were three channels and everyone watched TV. You can’t replicate his success today and he only got 20%
You want to change things, you have to change a major party from within, and that’s the effort of a lifetime, not an election cycle.
It’s trash in, trash out. Every election cycle. A bunch of old farts scheming and playing the system to get to the ballots. All of the young ambitious politicians barely get a sniff and fall apart during the primaries.
Its not a popular take, but I agree that voting probably the least important thing any American could do, politically. Its a misattributed quote but its still a good one:
Voting is the least important thing you can do, politically. There are somethings that have happened recently in the news that have vastly more impact, politically.
Voting does change things. That’s why Republicans are trying to suppress your vote. So yes people do want to make voting illegal because it does change things.
Voting has such a negligible effect on policy it can basically be ignored. Its a “thing” you can do politically, but its the “least” thing possible. So minor relevant as to be largely ignorable.
And unless they do much, much better in the future, you shouldn’t. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the philosophy of accelerationism, its clear thats the kind of environment we’re in. On the bright side, it might actually be the opening we need to truly break up the two party system.
Shit like this (Pelosi putting her thumb on the scale) is why people are questioning if they’ll ever vote Democrat again.
if trump keeps his promise- and this is one time I actually believe him- we won’t ever have to vote democrat again!
(because he’ll fuck over democracy and make that illegal.)
I don’t see an alternative and it’s making me hate democracy.
I want to point out how this (and I’m not doing this to single it you out, but you offer an example example of how a) lack of imagination about what is possible, is the precise kind of lack of vision that brought people to the conclusion that we “had” to support Biden in the primary, because you “can’t challenge an incumbent”: they were wrong. His brain was melting out of his ears and the establishment was telling you to not believe your lying eyes and ears. Authority takes advantage of this cynicisim and abuses you with it.
Its the kind of mindset that results in “Kamala has to be the nominee”, because she’s the only viable option; turns out, she wasn’t viable. We were told she had to turn to the right, to “get centrists”; turns out, there were no centrists. We were told her campaigning with Liz Cheney was 8d chess because she’ll get “never Trump Republicans”. How’d that work out.
We’ve been conditioned into a cynical fatalism, one that is truly not borne out by reality: it does not predict the future. I can not make that point any more emphatically. This toxic fatalism is in-opposition to the results we have on hand. New ways are possible, constantly. I have no problem with either cynicism or fatalism. However, I do have a problem with a world view being expressed which doesn’t predict future states of the world. BNMW, Blue Maga, the cynical fatalists who had elevated themselves into moderators of the Democratic process this election cycle: their cynical reductive fatalism is why Democrats can’t do better. Not because it isn’t possible, but because they refuse to ask for it, and for MONTHS they refused to allow the kinds of conversations necessary to carve and change a candidate like Harris into one who could get elected.
If anyone, here there or elsewhere, was suppressing speech challenging the narratives or strategies of the Harris campaign or Democratic party, challenges that would have led to a more viable candidate had they addressed them: these are the true enemies of democracy. There is a reason why Free Speech is the first amendment. It goes beyond what the government is allowed to do or not do: its about what we’re allowed to say or not allowed to say. Its about who has power, and who is allowed to challenge existing narratives. We can absolutely change this world, but first, we have to work on ourselves, and the communities we are a part of. This cynicism is a cancer we need to stamp out.
You have all the power you need to already to make the changes. If you need inspiration: Actions speak louder than words. You have to decide if you are part of the resistance or part of a costume party. Which is what some people, recently in the news, have decided.
The future is undefined. Pretending it isn’t is giving in.
What primary?
Exactly.
Honestly the party sounds like more fun.
Unless the resistance has guns.
There was no more viable candidate out there in the wings. Dems lost this race before it even started, we just didn’t know it yet, because the vote is decided by how folks in swing states feel about the sitting President’s economic performance—a performance, by the way, which was stellar when compared to other countries. Everything besides the economy is theater.
I wholeheartedly agree with you about one thing, though. Vote for change in local elections. Not necessarily other parties, but the most progressive candidates within the Democratic Party. Change the organization from the bottom up. Reshape it into a more progressive institution.
That’s an awful lot of words to say absolutely nothing. What’s your suggested alternative that will get the 70+ million votes you need to stand a chance at the presidential level? Because encouraging people not to vote obviously didn’t work it this time. Unless a Trump win was your goal all along.
Only if your goal is to (as Blue Maga does) continue to ignore the functional reason why Democrats lost this election.
Why are you focusing on the presidency? Oust the dems in Congress in even a few blue states and you’ll be able to do a lot. Hell, start local and gain legitimacy before going after federal office. There a lot of options other than voting democrats for everything all the time.
Because other than the libertarians in Grafton, they aren’t trying to build up any kind of legitimacy. The greens show up every four years as a spoiler but don’t do anything in the off years. Their list iof elected officials has ~150 people nation wide and half of those are things like “parks committee member”. If they were actually building legitimacy from the ground up like you suggest there would be far less criticism.
This is a problem with the greens, but it doesn’t mean the only option is to vote Democrat. If you don’t like the existent third parties, the answer should be to make or participate or one, not keep doing the same thing and hope the corporate stooges don’t drive the country into the ground.
It’s a problem for the greens who are a distant fourth place in numbers behind the libertarians who are trying to go the wrong direction. I’m not sure further splintering of third parties is going to help anything.
The far right has spent several decades dragging the Republican party to the right. Progressives can do the same to the Democrats if they actually show up.
You can add me to the list. I voted democrat this previous election in an effort to prevent *gestures around* this, but I didn’t want to for a number of reasons. I don’t trust the green party with Stein. I have no idea what I will do next election. I always vote for the most progressive “local” (I’m an overseas voter, but as long as I have to file taxes and get fucked by the IRS by not being able to use retirement accounts here, I’mma vote) candidate, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything other than D and R in my district except maybe an I once or twice.
Same. Every four years, I fight within myself on whether I should bother to vote. I’m an Independent voter and I base my decision by analyzing the political parties across the scope while realizing the reality of the world we’re living in alongside it.
And it gets tiring of the same old thing. I go and vote not Republican, I see some of the people in my circle vote Republican which makes me consider axing them to spare myself and they the drama of getting political. I get disparagingly cynical towards the American populace for their collective decision making or lack thereof considering we’re pitted again in this mess that’ll unfold in under a month.
I look at the ballots before making my predetermined choices - D, R, D, R, G, I in a blue moon, D, R like everywhere. Maybe I could’ve written someone in, maybe, but what good does that do except win meaningless brownie points?
Looking forward to another 4 years I’ll have a hard time remembering because of my mental efforts to block out the enormous amount of bullshit yet to come. Just like the last time between 2016 - 2021.
Yep, 100% this is at Pelosi’s feet. Fuck Nancy Pelosi, and honsestly fuck every D Boomer in congress who won’t get out of the way for the younger generations. You are actively holding us back.
No more. Independent from here on out.
I did that for years with nothing to show for it. No one ever (metaphorically) came knocking on my door asking how they could win my vote away from a third party. None of the candidates I voted for even came close, except Ross Perot and if he couldn’t do it, I guarantee no one else can. That dude’s whiteboard presentations were watched by 16.5 million people in an age where there were three channels and everyone watched TV. You can’t replicate his success today and he only got 20%
You want to change things, you have to change a major party from within, and that’s the effort of a lifetime, not an election cycle.
More like Americans should just not vote anymore.
It’s trash in, trash out. Every election cycle. A bunch of old farts scheming and playing the system to get to the ballots. All of the young ambitious politicians barely get a sniff and fall apart during the primaries.
It’s happened over and over and over.
We just tried the whole “not voting” thing and look what happened.
But did you all really try or did some of you? I think some of you, not all of you.
Well I guess I didn’t try that. Because I’m not a dumb dumb.
Its not a popular take, but I agree that voting probably the least important thing any American could do, politically. Its a misattributed quote but its still a good one:
Voting is the least important thing you can do, politically. There are somethings that have happened recently in the news that have vastly more impact, politically.
Voting does change things. That’s why Republicans are trying to suppress your vote. So yes people do want to make voting illegal because it does change things.
:shakes head:
No, it doesn’t.
Voting has such a negligible effect on policy it can basically be ignored. Its a “thing” you can do politically, but its the “least” thing possible. So minor relevant as to be largely ignorable.
Then you’ll just get the idiots voting in fascism eventually so you’d be as well to join them to speed it up.
I’m never voting Democrat.
edit: It would be election interference on account of being not American.
And unless they do much, much better in the future, you shouldn’t. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the philosophy of accelerationism, its clear thats the kind of environment we’re in. On the bright side, it might actually be the opening we need to truly break up the two party system.
Ha!