Biden and others’ comments pertain to pre Crimean invasion Russia, and I’d say they hold up quite well, given that they turned out to be right.
But I concede the point that my analogy is unfair. But in turn, I think the loaded gun thing also doesn’t quite match up with reality. If we planned for Ukraine to enter NATO then it’d be an accurate metaphor. But the fact remains that despite us (the US) telling them that they could, and telling them to forego peace talks by threat of not allowing them to join NATO, behind closed doors we never intended for them to actually join.
Like the criminal punching you, it is not right to attack a foreign country without UN approval. If the attacks on Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan and so on should be condemned (and they should), then certainly the invasion of Ukraine should be condemned. But to pretend history started on February 24th, 2022 and that everything happened because Putin is evil, and that we have nothing whatsoever to do with it, and that we didn’t see it coming, and that we couldn’t have prevented it by negotiating the Russia-US security agreement put forth in December 2021, is reductive.
I don’t know which mod removed the comment, but I’m not happy about it. You can’t argue against those people if the mods remove their comments. I want to convince those people that they’re wrong, not push them further into their delusion.
You may want to humor them, but once a poster starts spreading misinformation, not just stupid conclusions from actual facts, I ban and remove their content. Wherever that kind of debate belongs, it ain’t here.
The thing is, some of these people might have a few braincells and just fell for propaganda. Nothing too terrible about that - it would be more effective to have a conversation with them, show them the evidence that they are infact wrong and maybe pull them out of their delusion. By just banning them outright … idk, it keeps the community clean, but they fall deeper into their delusion.
Fair to say that that discussion doesn’t belong here tho, not arguing with that if that is the stance.
Biden and others’ comments pertain to pre Crimean invasion Russia, and I’d say they hold up quite well, given that they turned out to be right.
But I concede the point that my analogy is unfair. But in turn, I think the loaded gun thing also doesn’t quite match up with reality. If we planned for Ukraine to enter NATO then it’d be an accurate metaphor. But the fact remains that despite us (the US) telling them that they could, and telling them to forego peace talks by threat of not allowing them to join NATO, behind closed doors we never intended for them to actually join.
Like the criminal punching you, it is not right to attack a foreign country without UN approval. If the attacks on Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan and so on should be condemned (and they should), then certainly the invasion of Ukraine should be condemned. But to pretend history started on February 24th, 2022 and that everything happened because Putin is evil, and that we have nothing whatsoever to do with it, and that we didn’t see it coming, and that we couldn’t have prevented it by negotiating the Russia-US security agreement put forth in December 2021, is reductive.
I don’t know which mod removed the comment, but I’m not happy about it. You can’t argue against those people if the mods remove their comments. I want to convince those people that they’re wrong, not push them further into their delusion.
It was me.
You may want to humor them, but once a poster starts spreading misinformation, not just stupid conclusions from actual facts, I ban and remove their content. Wherever that kind of debate belongs, it ain’t here.
The thing is, some of these people might have a few braincells and just fell for propaganda. Nothing too terrible about that - it would be more effective to have a conversation with them, show them the evidence that they are infact wrong and maybe pull them out of their delusion. By just banning them outright … idk, it keeps the community clean, but they fall deeper into their delusion.
Fair to say that that discussion doesn’t belong here tho, not arguing with that if that is the stance.