And of course, they’re going to take all the wrong lessons from this. They’re going to use this as an excuse to move further right. What a fucking joke.
In fact, there’s fewer and fewer people in the center. Americans are abandoning the center in droves. And the Democratic Party, as liberals always do, is moving right to chase the fascist vote, because the left is a threat to Dems.
No, if Americans are abandoning the center, Trump’s popularity would be soaring. Democrats should move to the right not far right. Merz of Germany adopted tough immigration views, but they were not as extreme as that of the AFD.
Are you saying that only certain views are allowed on lemmy.ml? How would you learn anything if everyone in the group thinks the same? The psychological term is called groupthink and leads to poor decision making.
The .ml stands for Marxism-Leninism. That’s why you copy-pasted a sentence from the communist manifesto when signing up. Other views are allowed, but only to a point (which you haven’t crossed IMO). Although your talk about immigrants is right on the edge, and you probably will eventually be banned from here. Lemmy.world is probably more your speed
On the sidebar, you can see that certain views are absolutely not allowed here:
No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.
Copying from the Communist Manifesto doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to believe in it. I belong to a community here discussing movies. Are you saying that only movies supporting Marxism can be discussed? Securing the border is not bigotry. When Biden was allowing illegal migrants to flood in, cities had migrants sleeping in the streets. Mayors of these cities pleaded with Biden for help, but he ignored them. It is bigotry when there is a hatred for these migrants because of their ethnicity. An example is the AFD party of Germany.
You have no idea what you’re talking about, you’re just regurgitating right wing propaganda. Biden expanded on Trump’s xenophobic immigration policies, who expanded on Obama’s xenophobic immigration policies, who expanded on Bush’s xenophobic immigration policies, etc. And guess what? There’s still migrants sleeping in the streets, just like there’s still US citizens sleeping in the streets
Biden let illegal migrants flood across the border. One of Trump’s top attacks of Biden was that he wasn’t controlling the border. Trump has secured the border so well that very few illegal migrants cross. If there are illegal migrants sleeping in the streets, ICE would surely notice and deport them.
US election turnouts are low because neither party genuinely represents the people. The DNC ran rightward and lost in 2024, are you saying you want them to run further right, or further left? Which “center” are you talking about, the center of left and right, or center of DNC/GOP?
That’s not actually true. The very idea that Democrats are even left-of-center as it is, is completely disingenuous. It’s a fiction created by the US media’s intentional misrepresentation of policy. The majority of Americans want left-wing economic policies.
They also don’t care as much about culture war issues, as the media likes to make it appear. That is mostly a right-wing driven idea, while everyone left of that would simply rather focus on more practical concerns, without infringing on anyone’s rights. But that doesn’t mean they want politicians to abandon minority issues altogether. They just don’t agree that it should be such a hot-button topic. Catering to the kinds of narratives pushed by right-wing media, is not what the majority of Americans want from their politicians.
If Democrats want to start winning again, they need to start focusing on working-class issues. That means a hard shift to the left on economic policy. Trump and the Republicans have already figured this out, even if their rhetoric is total bullshit…they know what people want to hear, and they’re saying it. What Democrats need to do, is walk that kind of talk for real. That means reaching out to the actual majority of voters…not just the ones with the most money…and deliver real policy changes that will improve regular people’s lives.
The economy is always the top issue in any presidential election. Most Americans will not want a leftist economic policy. It will certainly mean high taxes in order to pay for all the social programs.
Most Americans do want left-wing economic policies…they just don’t like the word “socialism”. But they all want Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid…along with pretty much everything else you can describe to them, without using the “S-word”.
As I said…most of what people object to, is based on the right-wing narrative that the media pushes in order to prevent those kinds of policies from being implemented or expanded. It’s the trigger words that have been incorporated into that narrative that drive people to vote against what they all agree, is good policy.
No, they like some social programs such as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid but things such as free education beyond high school and guaranteed minimum income will require high taxes.
You put “no” at the front of that comment, but then agreed with me. Then you listed two other very popular ideas that haven’t been implemented because conservative politicians won’t agree to do it.
But even among conservative voters, higher paying jobs and tuition free college are also popular ideas. Up until the 80’s, conservatives were all pro-union. Better pay and safer work conditions were a conservative point of pride. That was what made the American dream possible.
And community colleges were incredibly popular with the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” crowd. Any hard-working American could improve their lot in life, simply by taking night classes after work. You want an opportunity, you make one for yourself.
But since then, they’ve all been convinced that things like that are “Socialist”, and bad for society. Why? Because the politicians want more money for defense contractors, pharmaceutical executives, and health care insurance providers. Now, your tax money is being spent subsidizing the richest people in the country, who make all their money exploiting the working class.
If Democrats want to win back those voters, they need to start fixing that shit. Because that’s what they were told Trump was going to fix. He was going to make everything less expensive and make everyone more money. Sure…they were lied to. But that’s what they were promised. That’s what they were voting for.
To be clear, social programs are not “Socialism,” Socialism is a separate organization of the economy where public ownership makes up the principle aspect.
That’s why I keep calling it a right-wing, media driven narrative. They use that word to create a negative stigma towards any left-wing economic policy. And social safety net programs are definitely left-wing economic policies, because they rely on pooled and redistributed resources. but you are absolutely correct…calling it “socialism” is hyperbolic.
I don’t really agree with designating social programs themselves as “right” or “left,” I think once you move outside the umbrella of Socialism vs Capitalism those descriptors cease to be useful. Something being paid for with taxes doesn’t make it anti-Capitalist, Lockheed Martin for example is quite right wing but depends entirely on tax dollars.
That being said, I do agree that conservative media calls social programs “Socialist” or “Communist” to fear-monger, but I also think liberal media uses terms like “Socialist” for distinctly Capitalist economies like Norway in order to blunt what Socialism actually is and make it compatible with Capitalism, defanging revolutionary and radical sentiment.
That is true, that “Socialism / Capitalism” isn’t the be-all-end-all of the conversation…but it is how things are commonly framed these days. And from an economic standpoint, the categorization fits. You can have mixed systems, but at the fundamental level, Socialist policies are those that share resources amongst the population, while Capitalist policies tend to favor concentrating those resources into fewer hands.
And of course, they’re going to take all the wrong lessons from this. They’re going to use this as an excuse to move further right. What a fucking joke.
If Democrats want to win, they better move toward the center because that’s where most Americans are.
Unfortunately they are moving right, and thus even further away from the center
What an idiotic takeaway.
In fact, there’s fewer and fewer people in the center. Americans are abandoning the center in droves. And the Democratic Party, as liberals always do, is moving right to chase the fascist vote, because the left is a threat to Dems.
No, if Americans are abandoning the center, Trump’s popularity would be soaring. Democrats should move to the right not far right. Merz of Germany adopted tough immigration views, but they were not as extreme as that of the AFD.
how did you even get on lemmy.ml? Which line from the manifesto did you copy and paste?
Are you saying that only certain views are allowed on lemmy.ml? How would you learn anything if everyone in the group thinks the same? The psychological term is called groupthink and leads to poor decision making.
Goddamn you’re dumb
The .ml stands for Marxism-Leninism. That’s why you copy-pasted a sentence from the communist manifesto when signing up. Other views are allowed, but only to a point (which you haven’t crossed IMO). Although your talk about immigrants is right on the edge, and you probably will eventually be banned from here. Lemmy.world is probably more your speed
On the sidebar, you can see that certain views are absolutely not allowed here:
If you allow the bigotry, then you face the paradox of tolerance. .
Copying from the Communist Manifesto doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to believe in it. I belong to a community here discussing movies. Are you saying that only movies supporting Marxism can be discussed? Securing the border is not bigotry. When Biden was allowing illegal migrants to flood in, cities had migrants sleeping in the streets. Mayors of these cities pleaded with Biden for help, but he ignored them. It is bigotry when there is a hatred for these migrants because of their ethnicity. An example is the AFD party of Germany.
You have no idea what you’re talking about, you’re just regurgitating right wing propaganda. Biden expanded on Trump’s xenophobic immigration policies, who expanded on Obama’s xenophobic immigration policies, who expanded on Bush’s xenophobic immigration policies, etc. And guess what? There’s still migrants sleeping in the streets, just like there’s still US citizens sleeping in the streets
Biden let illegal migrants flood across the border. One of Trump’s top attacks of Biden was that he wasn’t controlling the border. Trump has secured the border so well that very few illegal migrants cross. If there are illegal migrants sleeping in the streets, ICE would surely notice and deport them.
US election turnouts are low because neither party genuinely represents the people. The DNC ran rightward and lost in 2024, are you saying you want them to run further right, or further left? Which “center” are you talking about, the center of left and right, or center of DNC/GOP?
No, Biden and Harris were too far to the left. Letting in a flood of illegal migrants is a leftist policy.
The Biden/Harris presidency locked up as many immigrants as they could. There was no “flood.”
Anti-immigration rhetoric is just xenophobic nonsense.
Biden and Harris are far-right, they lost votes by moving right wing.
I dont think its possible for them to be more in the center. You must mean more to the right.
They could be closer to the center by moving far to the left.
That’s not actually true. The very idea that Democrats are even left-of-center as it is, is completely disingenuous. It’s a fiction created by the US media’s intentional misrepresentation of policy. The majority of Americans want left-wing economic policies.
They also don’t care as much about culture war issues, as the media likes to make it appear. That is mostly a right-wing driven idea, while everyone left of that would simply rather focus on more practical concerns, without infringing on anyone’s rights. But that doesn’t mean they want politicians to abandon minority issues altogether. They just don’t agree that it should be such a hot-button topic. Catering to the kinds of narratives pushed by right-wing media, is not what the majority of Americans want from their politicians.
If Democrats want to start winning again, they need to start focusing on working-class issues. That means a hard shift to the left on economic policy. Trump and the Republicans have already figured this out, even if their rhetoric is total bullshit…they know what people want to hear, and they’re saying it. What Democrats need to do, is walk that kind of talk for real. That means reaching out to the actual majority of voters…not just the ones with the most money…and deliver real policy changes that will improve regular people’s lives.
tbf, Democrats moving “towards the center” would mean moving left
The economy is always the top issue in any presidential election. Most Americans will not want a leftist economic policy. It will certainly mean high taxes in order to pay for all the social programs.
Most Americans do want left-wing economic policies…they just don’t like the word “socialism”. But they all want Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid…along with pretty much everything else you can describe to them, without using the “S-word”.
As I said…most of what people object to, is based on the right-wing narrative that the media pushes in order to prevent those kinds of policies from being implemented or expanded. It’s the trigger words that have been incorporated into that narrative that drive people to vote against what they all agree, is good policy.
No, they like some social programs such as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid but things such as free education beyond high school and guaranteed minimum income will require high taxes.
You put “no” at the front of that comment, but then agreed with me. Then you listed two other very popular ideas that haven’t been implemented because conservative politicians won’t agree to do it.
But even among conservative voters, higher paying jobs and tuition free college are also popular ideas. Up until the 80’s, conservatives were all pro-union. Better pay and safer work conditions were a conservative point of pride. That was what made the American dream possible.
And community colleges were incredibly popular with the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” crowd. Any hard-working American could improve their lot in life, simply by taking night classes after work. You want an opportunity, you make one for yourself.
But since then, they’ve all been convinced that things like that are “Socialist”, and bad for society. Why? Because the politicians want more money for defense contractors, pharmaceutical executives, and health care insurance providers. Now, your tax money is being spent subsidizing the richest people in the country, who make all their money exploiting the working class.
If Democrats want to win back those voters, they need to start fixing that shit. Because that’s what they were told Trump was going to fix. He was going to make everything less expensive and make everyone more money. Sure…they were lied to. But that’s what they were promised. That’s what they were voting for.
To be clear, social programs are not “Socialism,” Socialism is a separate organization of the economy where public ownership makes up the principle aspect.
That’s why I keep calling it a right-wing, media driven narrative. They use that word to create a negative stigma towards any left-wing economic policy. And social safety net programs are definitely left-wing economic policies, because they rely on pooled and redistributed resources. but you are absolutely correct…calling it “socialism” is hyperbolic.
I don’t really agree with designating social programs themselves as “right” or “left,” I think once you move outside the umbrella of Socialism vs Capitalism those descriptors cease to be useful. Something being paid for with taxes doesn’t make it anti-Capitalist, Lockheed Martin for example is quite right wing but depends entirely on tax dollars.
That being said, I do agree that conservative media calls social programs “Socialist” or “Communist” to fear-monger, but I also think liberal media uses terms like “Socialist” for distinctly Capitalist economies like Norway in order to blunt what Socialism actually is and make it compatible with Capitalism, defanging revolutionary and radical sentiment.
That is true, that “Socialism / Capitalism” isn’t the be-all-end-all of the conversation…but it is how things are commonly framed these days. And from an economic standpoint, the categorization fits. You can have mixed systems, but at the fundamental level, Socialist policies are those that share resources amongst the population, while Capitalist policies tend to favor concentrating those resources into fewer hands.