wait until you hear about the insane bullshit that went on on the Milo and Otis film :/
Even though animals were harmed in the film, it was still released?
Then what’s the point of the protections?
If you’re shocked by capital murdering puppies, wait until you find out about the animal torture/murder industry, enslaved labor, etc.
The puppies are just the tip of the meatberg.
Our ignorance is godly.
The meat eaters are not going to be happy with this comment. :^)
nah, it’s fine, puppies are too stringy anyway.
I don’t understand?
You never heard the joke before? “How do you know if someone is vegan? Don’t worry, they’ll tell you”
But in all seriousness now… every group out there, no matter how moral or good or whatever will always have extremists and people like this that will give the group a bad name. Unfortunately, veganism has a lot of these. Which is a shame, because we really need more vegans.
Hey, I think killing animals is bad
Ugh, extremist much?
I couldn’t imagine not killing baby boy chicks at less than an hour old in a masher, ALIVE. What would we do without taking a mother’s bubba from her in the dairy industry.
Yeah, because calling everyone “meateaters” and pretending they’re all equal and that killing puppies to make make a movie and eating chicken is the same thing. Yeah, that’s a perfectly normal and healthy way to spread the message.
People would be a lot more open to discussion and change if you weren’t so confrontational. The fact that you felt the need to disagree with someone that said the world needs more vegans proves my point, I’m pretty sure, but whatever, you do you.
I’m sorry, but this is giving me massive “of course I support feminism, but <insert activist> goes too far/is too hysteric” vibes. You can suggest better communication strategies, of course (or better yet, use them yourself), if you think you know better how to convince people to stop killing animals. But only criticizing vegans for their tone, and then finishing with “I think the world needs more vegans” does not make you sound supportive at all.
I’m gonna ask the dreaded question then: If you think the world needs more vegans, are you vegan? And if not, would you be if vegans were less rude to you?
Heavily reduced meat and animal product consumption but not yet vegan, no. It requires more research and time and energy than I have right now to fully switch. (And a few more good recipes, because many are quite meh, for some reason) But I’ll get there eventually.
And vegans haven’t been rude to me, thanks for your concern. It’s not about that, even. But all those jokes that are floating around haven’t been created by the meat industry. It’s not some conspiracy. You know the phrase “you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar”? That’s all I’m saying… and it’s not even about veganism… it’s about life in general. People are way too angry, especially online. Too quick to judgement and insults. They say the same thing about leftists… that they’re too busy fighting amongst themselves rather than focusing on what matters.
Disagreed with plenty of people in real life, but it’s never been like this. Never heard the phrase “meat eater” in real life, even tho I’ve talked with plenty of vegans. Same for “tankie” and a bunch of others.
George Carling… Tippy the dog.
“Sometimes, you can get a dog that looks exactly like the dog you used to have. Right? You shop around a little bit, and you find a dog identical to your former dog. And that’s real handy cause you don’t have to change the pictures on your mirror or anything. Right? You just bring the dead one into the pet shop. Throw him up on the counter and say, “Give me another one of them. That was real good.” And they’ll give you a carbon copy of your ex-goddam dog. Now my favorite dog that I ever had in my whole lifetime was Tippy.”
Well, I could have gone my whole life not knowing this. :(
Transcription
An American Humane Certified Safety Representative visited the Snow Buddies set on the first day of filming. Fifteen Golden Retriever puppies were on set and fifteen other were being treated by a local veterinarian, and their illnesses were eventually diagnosed as Giardia and Coccidia. On request from the representative the remaining puppies on set received additional veterinary checks. Twenty-five of the puppies were from an American breeder and five were from a Canadian breeder. It was discovered that the puppies were approximately 8 weeks old, which lead to the belief that the puppies were only 6 weeks old when they were brought by the trainer to the movie set. Per the USDA it was at the time illegal to transport puppies under the age of 8 weeks.
After the removal of all 30 puppies, 28 older Golden Retriever puppies were brought in to continue filming. All of the 28 older puppies were exposed to parvovirus. Five of the puppies died, and up to six others fell ill after exposure to the virus.
As a result, the film was not permitted to use the “No animals were harmed…” disclaimer and received an “Unacceptable” marking from the American Humane Association.
What’s the conventional wisdom as to why this is so bad, but eating meat basically gets a pass? Like, meat offers sustenance, yes, but it’s by no means required. So basically, humans eat meat because it tastes really good — it’s great “culinary entertainment.”
This is a different kind of entertainment, but it’s deeply offensive to many folks. I’m not trying to be a dick about it, just curious why this is seen as such a sin.
Is it that these animals weren’t “supposed” to be killed? Would a movie about a beef cow who ends up getting slaughtered, both onscreen and IRL, be seen as better? Worse?
The “conventional wisdom” is just the usual cognitive dissonance of carnists.
They want to cry about puppies but also enjoy meat based on even worse exploitation, torture, murder, etc.
are you for real comparing this to eating meat?
Like we artificially breed cows into existence for meat and milk alone, dogs exists as companions, how could possibly be the same?.
Yes, that’s the cognitive dissonance of carnism. “How could torturing one animal possibly be the same as torturing another? We have different categories for torturing!!!” smh.
Because the animals don’t care what our intended purpose for them is.
I think because of
1.the chasm between the intended discourse of the film (feelgood movie with puppies going on adventures) and the alleged means to film it, feels particularly cynical and dishonest
2.the fact that dogs are companions -they have co-evolved next to humans for about 15 thousand years and hold a special place, contrary to animals typically consumed for their flesh
Thanks for the thoughtful response! 1) makes a lot of sense, and 2) makes a lot of “emotional sense” to me (as opposed to “intellectual sense,” I guess).
yea, it’s still not super reasonable to murder animals when we could, well, not do it. But I think dogs being companions mostly explains the difference in treatment. I used to be a vegan but the emotional load was too heavy to bear everyday. I chose to look away. I’m not proud, but I can’t afford to be shameful. Do you eat animals ?
No, I’ve been a strict vegetarian for a long time, mostly vegan now but not strict about it. I did eat fish a few years ago because it was an invasive species (and also, delicious).
But also, I have no problem getting the food/nutrients I need from a plant based diet, which isn’t always easy for other folks.
fair point but killing for entertainment is pure evil. Killing cause you have to eat is neccesary evil.
You have to eat, but you don’t have to eat meat. It’s just as optional as creating art that involves animal abuse. (Not a vegan, just interested in this topic).
My sis had to loosen her vegetarian standards for the sake of her daughters health.
We are omnivores, accept that fact. While you can survive without flesh (and the modern person eats too much of it), it requires personal effort and research to find substitutes, with the risk of damaging your health. And most just prefer some meat or fish now and then.
Btw, almost all herbivores are opportunistic omnivores, because they can’t research substitutes. Even sheep eat chicks, there, i said it.
My sis had to loosen her vegetarian standards for the sake of her daughters health.
Cool anecdote.
We are omnivores, accept that fact.
Cool pseudo-science derived from an anecdote. Even if I believed your story, in reality people don’t actually need meat.
it requires personal effort and research to find substitutes
Yes, it takes effort to do something different from the rest of society. Apparently you’ve never done this.
And most just prefer some meat or fish now and then.
Cool story.
Even sheep eat chicks, there, i said it.
Nobody gives a shit. Nobody is saying go veg because sheep are veg. This is just more wacky carnist babbling.
I accept it; I enjoy most types of meat. But the fact that you can survive without meat makes it optional, which is relevant to the debate we were having about the morality of killing/harming animals for different purposes.
Humans need nutrition and vitamins found in meat. Without them they get health issues or die. When lab grown meats are available, real meats become optional.
No, that’s a myth. There is actually no need for consuming animals. We owe the perpetuation of this myth by the meat industry
There are literally billions of vegetarians in the world who don’t have health issues.
There’s multiples more of omnivores who don’t have health issues either.
So? That somehow means the vegetarians don’t exist?
Where in the fuck did you get that?
We need things that can be found in meat. With some effort, you can obtain them from alternative sources.
Yes.
“with some effort”. Eating food humans are meant to eat in a balanced and healthy manner is already borderline impossible for everyone. Eating only vegetarian is more akin to a full time hobby than what food is to most people: fuel.
People don’t even give a shit about cars that they drive around and spend insane amount of money on each decade. I just don’t see most people just switching to vegetarianism without a survival need. Plant based foods are just stupid expensive to boot outside of rice and potatoes.
Wow, I must be doing it wrong then. I learned basic combinations and a variety of recipes. No different from when I learned to cook with meat.
I’m not saying that it’s for everyone. I personally still eat fish from time to time. But it definitely isnt a full time hobby
Yea, it’s easier than some people try to say it is. It’s a matter of habit and produce availability, which varies depending on your location
Yeah, it’s harder for sure. But what I’m saying is that not everyone needs to kill to eat-- if you can afford it and have some time to plan meals, it isn’t a “necessary evil”. I’d argue it’s still more moral to kill for food than for entertainment, of course.
I assume that “No animal were harmed” claim cannot be used in film where real meat are consumed?
Broadly, people are not ok with animals being mistreated. An animal that is raised in safe, comfortable conditions and then killed painlessly is not mistreated by the standards of many people.
Abusing a puppy and kitten to make a film is absolutely mistreatment, hence the different reaction.
I’m not trying to be a dick about it
Doubt. “Just asking questions” is so often a deliberate dick move.
safe, comfortable conditions and then killed painlessly
Do you even think this is real
Knowing some farmers personally, yes, yes it is real
Do they know exactly what happens at the slaughterhouse or are they doing it themselves?
The farmers I know go through a handful of local butcher shops to handle everything from that point forwards. The butcher gets high quality meat to sell and the farmer doesn’t have to deal with the parts of the process that aren’t part of their skillset or that they otherwise don’t want to handle. So while they aren’t part of the killing and butchering process, they are confident in their trust of the individuals and small businesses they rely on for it
From what I’ve seen and learned, small businesses and small farms have the capability to handle the process of breeding and nurturing their stock for processing into the cuts of meat we buy at the store in a humane manner, but very large farms and very large meat processing operations every individual is simply too disconnected from the full process to ensure every step is as humane as it should be.
Ultimately this is why we need to greatly expand the USDA to ensure every step of the process of our food being brought to our plates is as humane and safe as possible. The USDA already has full time inspectors who work at meat processing plants full time to ensure everything is safe and by the book, with the power to pause operations at any moment if they see a problem, but this needs to be expanded. We need USDA and FDA inspections to be frequent and thorough at every food processing facility in the country. Farms that product stock for these facilities need to be regularly audited. The erosion of the FDA and USDA is part of why there’s been so many salmonella outbreaks and food recalls in recent years
Well, here it is. Strict laws too. And stress, even shortly before slaughtering, makes the meat stringy anyway, and poor health gives a taste.
In france we also have strong laws for that. Doesnt stop our local associations from releasing footage of industrial-scale farms that are just horrible to endure.
Yes, other than for fish.
You’re clueless. Even if it was possible, which it is not, it would be not be profitable enough.
Ok angry internet warrior.
Idk im not angry nor a warrior, just someone more informed than you.
Welcome to veganism! 🌱💚🌱
I suppose if I had a cow living in my home with me that would be a problem. It’s familiarity.
And puppies
I found the vegan!
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 gj
I have never heard of this movie or the whole franchise (did some searching) before. It’s not even something I have seen anything about and wasn’t interested, I’ve literally never seen or heard anything about any of this. But I’m not surprised, nothing as big as Disney exists without many skeletons in the closet. Haven’t given them any money since I was a teenager, and that won’t ever change.
If you had a kid at the time you’d know about it.
Go watch Milo and Otis again. Holy shit. They through a fucking kitten off a cliff.
After doing some wtf research, the thing was filmed in China. Those poor kittens and puppies.
*Threw
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/animals-abused-milo-and-otis/
That was a rumor, and has never been verified despite decades of discussion and many attempts to prove or disprove it. Also, it was filmed in Japan, not China.
Snopes can leave things unsecured all they want, but the footage of what happened to the cats and dogs is proof. There wasn’t any CGI in 1986 and the abusive and stressful situations they did to them was obviously real. But yes, it was Japan instead of China.
I don’t know anything about your overall claim and don’t know what the movie is that you’re talking about but CGI absolutely did exist in 1986. The original Tron released 4 years prior, and green screens/similar had been around for decades.
Lol. Dude. If you think green screens and CGI weren’t super easy to recognize back in the 80’s, you need to go watch some old movies that used it.
Also, yeah, Tron released 2 years earlier and had some CGI. There was even CGI way before Tron in movies. When I say there was no CGI, I’m saying there was no CGI that could fool even a 6 year old into thinking an animal was jumping off of a cliff.
As for the green screen thing… Bless your little soul.
Was just about to mention milo and Otis. I loved that movie as a kid. Felt pretty bad rediscovering it as an adult.
Oh shit, that’s fucking CHATRAN, I loved that as a kid :(
fighting bears and shit
“here. Get bit by this lobster”
oof, right in the childhood
Here comes the dog, strong and brave, WOOF!
I loved that movie growing up and had my own copy. And then as an adult I learnt about that dark, dark history.
image of text
no link to source or actual text
pointlessly breaking the web & accessibilityDoes OP know about this alternative to images of text called text? 🤦
https://humanehollywood.org/production/snow-buddies/ From the references
No not a link to a wiki but the pervasive weird ass AI favored descriptions of all images in Lemmy. It’s fucking weird
It’s not for AI, its for accessibility. Alt text is a user-generated description of an image that’s been standardized for screen readers. It also helps to have a text description if the image hosting breaks.
So why is alt text suddenly no longer aria tags and otherwise? Why is accessibility now plastered text across a Lemmy pic? In scenarios that have never been considered accessibility critical?
I can see the image, and I can see the text… no meta data for screen readers… Why are we now rendering sentences VISUALLY onto images?
I think you’re complaining that your lemmy client displays the alt text over the image. Mine does that with videos, which I also find annoying, but not with images. In any case, it is a client issue, so you could ask your developer nicely for an option to disable this behaviour (or look in the settings if it’s already possible)
Oic, you’re complaining about screenshots of text as memes, not alt text.
Carry on.
In a movie from 2008, so it wasn’t that long ago. You’d think they would have known better by then. Another reminder to boycott Disney.
Known better? Probably.
Cared better? Absolutely not.
Imagine the caliber of person it takes to neglect a golden retriever to death.
I can’t even imagine the kind of person you have to be to actually let this movie get published about a bunch of cute little puppy dogs if you had the power to stop it and you knew what happened.
I can’t even imagine the kind of person you have to be to actually let this movie get published
It’s called a “capitalist”. They value the violent control of labor far more than any puppy’s life.
This is the same company that, 60 years ago, built a turntable to throw lemmings off the edge of a cliff for a “nature documentary” since they weren’t jumping over on their own.
Lemmings do not actually commit suicide in nature…
WTF?! Man I love Air Bud franchise but I never saw Snow Buddies. I was thinking of doing a re-watch and see all the Air Bud movies I haven’t seen yet. But after seeing this news I’m not so sure…
There are 23 movies in the Air Bud cinematic universe. Everyone always talks about the first Air Bud. The basketball one. The dog does a trick and boops the basketball into the hoop. Whoop-de-fucking-doo. If I’m on the losing team to that, I can applaud that. That’s fine, whatever, I’d hurt my nose doing that. Cool. The rest of the team played well, too.
Now imagine being a kid on a sports team six years later. You arrive to your beach volleyball court and see you’re playing against a dog. You might think, woah, the dog is just gonna boop the ball with his nose, right? Cool fucking trick, he’s old as shit and has no new ones. Wrong. In Air Bud: Spikes Back, the fifth Air Bud movie, the eponymous Air Bud jumps up to the net and spikes a ball down on the opposing team. If I’m on the losing team to that, I fucking quit volleyball forever. There’s no going back. Your dad doesn’t ask how the game was, he saw the dog spike that shit on you on ESPN. What were you supposed to do? My fucking bad, our libero is a piece of shit who can’t dig it up from a FUCKING DOG??? Where the FUCK is our middle blocker??? Which one of you assholes let’s the dog go unmarked after that??? Slam the fucking ball into him, holy shit! No wonder we lost, they were too busy laughing their asses off while we floundered to get the ball over the net! Holy fucking shit, Andre, if you set the ball up so the FUCKING DOG GETS A CHANCE TO BLOCK ME WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU THE SETTER?!? No way, there is NO WAY anyone plays volleyball on that team again. Half that team kills themselves from the ridicule after that. The other half moves across the country and changes their names and faces. That dog ruins their lives. All to win a volleyball game.
LMFAO
space buddies made me cry as a kid
What’s in that movie? I have a DVD but have not watched it yet.
i cant remember anything about it just that i cried to it 😂
Also #FuckDisney
Werner Herzog boiled 11000 living rats in ink for Nosferatu.
Yeah when you hear dude babbling about the “cruelty of nature” or whatnot… He’s just talking about himself.
Dutch behavioral biologist Maarten 't Hart, hired by Herzog for his expertise with laboratory rats, revealed that, after witnessing the inhumane way in which the rats were treated, he no longer wished to cooperate. Apart from traveling conditions that were so poor that the rats, imported from Hungary, had started to eat each other upon arrival in the Netherlands, Herzog insisted the plain white rats be dyed gray. To do so, according to 't Hart, the cages containing the rats needed to be submerged in boiling water for several seconds, causing another half of them to die. The surviving rats proceeded to lick themselves clean of the dye immediately, as 't Hart had predicted they would.
Holy shit.
Goddamn
I previously kinda liked Hertzog (he was amusing to listen to if nothing else), not any more.
How do you boil 11,000 rats alive and then go on and make 10 minute long thinkpieces about the profound sadness of the death of a single penguin that leaves its flock? What a fucking masturbatory asshat.
At what point do you just buy gray rats? Where in the cost benefit analysis does boiling rats in ink come in?
I guess when buying 11000 rats you are somewhat constrained in your choice of color. It’s not like you can order them made in a custom color.
It’s not like they needed all 11000 of them. Half of them died from being submerged in boiling dye… Surely, it would have been easier with half a magnitude smaller quantity.
Half of them died from being submerged in boiling dye
I’m surprised that half of them survived. Aside, that is cartoonishly evil.
Parvovirus is a puppy owners worst nightmare. It’s kind of puppy ebola but super contagious and high mortality rate.
Typically puppy owners never accept a puppy younger than 8 weeks without their first vaccination. And don’t let them go out in places exposed to other unknown dogs until after the second vaccination at 16 weeks. So those early weeks should be spent with other vaccinated puppies to socialise them. And if you are going out, carry them or put them in a cart, or take them places you know no sick dogs have been within a year.
Yet another reason why raising puppies is so much harder than people think.
Yeah, parvo specifically attacks multiplying cells. It’s not super bad for fully grown dogs, which only multiply cells to maintain a baseline. But for puppies that are actively growing, it basically causes them to fall apart at the seams. Their bone marrow and intestinal lining basically turns to mush, since they’re almost entirely made of multiplying cells.
