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This is the biggest thing IMO, liberals would rather attack leftists than try to work with them. All this does, however, is convince leftists that they have nothing to gain from siding with liberals and instead trying to build outside pressure.
Liberals would rather defend genocide than join leftists in trying to force Biden’s hand and gain back leftist voters.
I say this as a Leftist likely voting for Biden: Leftists are going third party because Liberals have been blocking all leftward movement, thus alienating leftists from the electoral process. If you want leftist votes, work with leftists, instead of constantly punching left.
Biden fired the guy who used to run the NLRB, and put in a bunch of actually pro-labor people, who gave lots of material support to all this union activity that coincidentally has been meeting with all sorts of success over the last couple of years.
Biden’s corporate tax reforms swung Amazon’s taxes from negative $1.2 billion per quarter to positive $1 billion when they took effect at the start of 2023, and they’re currently paying $3 billion per quarter, a comfortable amount more than they’ve ever paid before. Here’s this year’s proposal of what he plans to do to build on top of that. Raising corporate taxes was most of how he funded stuff like the infrastructure bill.
I literally do not see anyone “punching left” outside of the mainstream media. No one on Lemmy is out here saying “these damn protestors if only they would shut up” or anything like that. I see a bunch of people punching Biden, and then other people saying hey, what you said is actually not accurate; for as criminal as his support for Israel is, he’s actually the first pro-working-people president the US has had in many many years.
That’s not “punching left,” that’s refuting the punching that is coming inwards towards the person who is right now the only available alternative to full throated, military-seize-the-voting-machines, shoot-the-protestors, fascism.
You just punched left, lol. Telling leftists that extremely minor shifts within the context of a far-right system are good enough actually, minimizes the voice of leftists. You aren’t going to convince a leftist that Biden is good, for leftists, continuing Capitalism and making no efforts to end it is already enough to not consider a candidate to be good.
If you want to move leftists to your side, it’s far more effective to agree with them that Biden has been continuing liberalism and making no tangible leftist movements. Telling leftists that they should actually be celebrating less than the bare minimum further alienates leftists.
good enough actually
Never said that; in fact you’ll find me several places saying that moving further than Biden would be a great idea, and pointing out that one of the big problems with Trump is that he will very effectively end some of the methods that currently exist whereby real leftwards progress can be made in this country.
You aren’t going to convince a leftist that Biden is good, for leftists, continuing Capitalism and making no efforts to end it is already enough to not consider a candidate to be good.
So we’re moving the goal posts so that Biden has to want to end capitalism before you’ll support him, even against literal Hitler.
Sure, sounds perfectly sane and productive. Sorry for ever punching left by having a different opinion than that.
If you want to move leftists to your side, it’s far more effective to agree with them that Biden has been continuing liberalism and making no tangible leftist movements.
That’s a funny way of spelling “I have no way to disagree with your factual rundown of good things Biden has done, so I’m going to demand that you agree with me, and in particular cease citing any objective facts for why you think what you think, as a precondition of ‘moving to your side’, because facts are punching left.”
I mean I could be right or wrong on this or anything else. But I’m not planning on just agreeing with you on everything and ceasing hurting your feelings by arguing otherwise, so that you’ll become open to “moving to my side.”
You opened up with some unnecessary pro-Biden stances to attempt to make him seem better, no? As for leftward movement, it’s already impossible electorally, which is why I am voting for Biden. That’s my point, really, you would rather gas up a genocide supporter and enabler of fascism than simply take the correct approach and state that leftward change is impossible electorally.
If leftist change was possible electorally, you would be suggesting people vote for a leftist party, like PSL, but because PSL can’t win we must agree that leftist change is impossible.
Yes, Biden indeed needs to be a leftist of some sort before I give any approval to him. I already said I am voting for him, are you telling me I need to also enjoy voting for a genocidal enabler of fascism?
Listing extremely minor concessions within the context of a country absolutely tumbling into fascism to make it seem like things are improving under Biden and not continuing to get worse is a form of punching left, because the purpose is to silence dissent.
You opened up with some unnecessary pro-Biden stances to attempt to make him seem better, no?
So, I went back and re read your initial message carefully. I actually pretty much agree with it – the Hillary Clintons and Nancy Pelosis of the world have been attacking leftists, blocking forward progress, and then blaming the voters when they lose elections because they are more or less even with Reagan politically. There’s nothing really to vote for there, and not voting for open fascism when the alternative is screwing you left and right isn’t really all that appealing.
The reason I responded the way I did is that Biden actually isn’t at all the same as them. If you look factually at what he’s done, he’s a huge departure from the norm for corporate Democrats. You can believe that or not (or, you can say that abetting a genocide in Gaza makes it hard to like anything he might have done domestically – and pretty understandable, I think, if you say that.)
But I don’t get how citing facts of what’s he done is “unnecessary” or “attempting” to make him seem better. I didn’t like Biden initially, just because he’s a rich white guy who’s worked in Washington all his life. I didn’t expect real good things out of him. Then he started doing all this good stuff, and I started liking him. Surely that’s an allowed way to go about things? Responding to the reality of what someone’s doing as a reason to like or dislike them?
the purpose is to silence dissent
This is a framing that usually comes out of conservatives. I am not silencing your dissent. I am disagreeing with you.
I won’t tell you what to do, but I would politely ask that if you want me to take you seriously, stop saying that I am “silencing dissent” or “punching left” or whatever, just because I am holding a different opinion than you, and explaining why I hold it. Those are very different things. I’m allowed to hold a different viewpoint, and it’s weird to me that you are so vigorous about the idea that it’s violent or inappropriate for me to do so.
But I don’t get how citing facts of what’s he done is “unnecessary” or “attempting” to make him seem better.
My take on that would be that it brings nuance and humanity to those that some auth-leftists want to hate and dehumanize. Pointing out that Biden is not a cardboard cutout of [insert chosen evil diety here] and that he has done good things makes it harder to rationalize digging in. To justify vilifying, “dunking on”, and generally bullying those who would support him (even unhappily) rather than embrace accelerationiam that would load to extraordinary harm of LGBTQ+ people with no concrete data to suggest that it would cause net benefit or leftward motion, while claiming dialectics and opposition to silencing dissent, takes a good deal of cognitive dissonance as is. Being forced to acknowledge that ramps that dissonance up higher.
(Holy long sentence Batman! Sorry about that.)
Just to be clear to auth-left folks (though any state or corpo actors can get fucked), I’m not trying to be sectarian or talk shit. This is honestly how I perceive this. Dehumanizing other leftists (or people for that matter, or hell, even bourgeois dickheads) is not something that has led to positive societal changes in history. Generally, it’s just used to justify unnecessary death and suffering. Suppressing or ignoring data (or lack thereof) is not conducive to making data-backed theses.
Yeah. There are people who are just straight-up evil and trying to hurt people on purpose (Trump is one), but it’s actually very rare, I think, even in political leaders. Mostly I think the destructive stuff in the world comes from people who have a weird reality built up in their head where what they’re doing makes sense.
I see this even in internet arguments. It’s very common that two people will both be saying things that makes sense, but because they both have this caricature built up of the other person and the other viewpoint in their head, they can’t even understand each other and keep talking at cross purposes.
Person A says “How DARE you say that genocide is okay, genocide is NEVER okay”
Then person B says “How DARE you say Biden and Trump are the same, Trump is obviously way worse and we need to vote for Biden”
“How DARE you vote for genocide”
“How DARE you refuse to vote against Trump’s genocide”
And so on. I mean, neither one is really wrong, and yet they’re all angry at each other and each seem genuinely convinced that the person they’re talking to carries cartoonishly wrong views like “genocide is okay as long as it comes from my political allies,” and then they get all bent out of shape arguing against those imaginary views that almost no one really actually holds. And they can’t even listen to the other person for long enough to understand what they’re saying, because I can’t possibly sit here and listen to a pro-genocide person, when I am ANTI genocide, and I just need to fight against this pro genocide person right now.
I’m not saying that you personally cannot like him. For you, those changes are substantial and good, to the point of justifying support. For leftists alienated by the DNC, this is obviously not enough, which is why I consider it unnecessary.
For leftists, generally, continuing down this descent into fascism that is happening slowly under Biden and rapidly under Trump is unnacceptable.
My broader point here is that if your goal is to get leftists to vote for Biden, trying to explain why you think Biden is good is counterproductive. Instead, explain how leftist change is impossible via electoralism, and that voting for a leftist party like PSL will never materially bring America to the left.
My broader point here is that if your goal is to get leftists to vote for Biden, trying to explain why you think Biden is good is counterproductive. Instead, explain how leftist change is impossible via electoralism
If someone’s mindset is such that it’s unnecessary to talk about what actions a politician has taken when deciding whether to vote for them, I’m comfortable with not being able to appeal to that person.
Honestly my goal isn’t to “get” anyone to do anything. I am trying to communicate the reality I see in front of me. Obviously I hope that that will produce a result and a better outcome in the real world, if the reality I see seems compelling to someone else as a useful model, but I’m not into the idea of trying to move away from “this is how I see it and why” and into something else, to try to engineer a stated result in some other person. They can make their own decisions, as can you.
For leftists, generally, continuing down this descent into fascism that is happening slowly under Biden and rapidly under Trump is unnacceptable.
What are fascist things that Biden has done? How has he moved the needle towards fascism? Maybe this is where some of the disconnect between our views on him comes from.
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Don’t forget, took climate change seriously for the first time a US politician has ever done that, and made a huge priority to pass a massive climate bill that is predicted to reduce emissions by 40% by 2030. It’s too late, but that’s not Biden’s fault, and he started working on it practically the instant he got in office.
I literally do not see anyone “punching left” outside of the mainstream media. No one on Lemmy is out here saying “these damn protestors if only they would shut up” or anything like that.
Front page of this very community:
I’ll say it again:
- Someone ostensibly on the left criticizes Biden
- Someone then argues that that criticism is unfair or disagrees with it
… is not punching left.
Someone from the pro-Biden camp directing some kind of “punching” at someone who hadn’t already brought Biden into the argument themselves, from an anti perspective, would be punching left. Someone “punching” at Biden (which terminology I don’t even really agree with), and then there’s a response “actually here’s why I don’t think that’s true,” is not punching.
Surely that makes sense?
Or, like I said, someone from the establishment-Democrat camp who directs condemnation at someone who’s literally just trying to stick up for the Palestinians, because it makes Biden look bad. That would be punching left, and that definitely happens from Democratic politicians and in the MSM. I’m saying I haven’t seen any of that on Lemmy.
Surely that makes sense? IDK, maybe not. But that what I said up there is my viewpoint on it. Hope it’s helpful.
Your argument boils down to “they started it” and doesnt matter. All of those posts are criticizing leftists who won’t vote for Biden because he’s supporting genocide by reducing the left’s position to bothsidesism.
establishment-Democrat camp who directs condemnation at someone who’s literally just trying to stick up for the Palestinians, because it makes Biden look bad. That would be punching left, and that definitely happens from Democratic politicians and in the MSM.
What is your point here? That democratic party reps dont post on lemmy? Because this:
directs condemnation at someone who’s literally just trying to stick up for the Palestinians
Is exactly what those posts are doing.
Yeah? Well, you know, that’s just like, uh, your opinion, man.
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leftists don’t care about facts anymore than trump supporters do.
all they care about is pushing their boogeyman ideological agenda and shouting down anyone who talks facts or reality as ‘fake news’ or ‘capitalist agenda’ or whatever nonsense phrase they feel makes them morally superior.
Care to share any examples? What facts do leftists not care about?
It’s hard to say who is a genuine leftist and who is a please-don’t-vote-for-Biden-so-Trump-can-win shill, but if we take e.g. @[email protected] at face value, I think it’s safe to say that they don’t care:
- About any given good thing Biden might have done domestically (forget about that, how dare you run around supporting this genocide man)
- If Biden personally isn’t doing the genocide (forget about that, how dare you run around supporting this genocide man)
- If Trump will probably do much worse genocides both in the middle east and in the United States (forget about that etc you get the idea)
It’s like the Republican-type thing, where only one answer is allowed. If Biden did a good thing, then no he didn’t, because Netanyahu is killing Gazans and anything Biden is doing to try to prevent that didn’t happen and it’s all Biden’s fault and he’s a bad man and I’m going to start to shout if you try to tell me anything about how even if that’s all true then Trump is ten times worse and those are the only two options in this election.
I mean, I kind of get it. Biden is materially aiding in a genocide and it’s easy at that point in the conversation to shut down anything further and say, okay I’ve heard enough. I think the right answer though is to figure out how to put pressure on Biden from the left to at least undo some of the harm he’s been abetting up to this point, figure out how to install better candidates in the future who will undo American’s war-crime-adjacent foreign policy in the future, while also voting for Biden in the election because he doesn’t want 10 genocides like Trump does. However much bullshit is the resistance Biden has been giving Netanyahu up until this point, it’s definitely better than the full-throated support and assistance Trump would give him.
(Edit: Fixed @ link)
Well, it’s important to consider trajectory. Biden doing small positive changes in a rapidly crumbling Capitalist empire is still negative overall. For many leftists, this minor amount of positive concessions in an ongoing train wreck isn’t enough and can’t be enough.
It’s impossible to look at individual policies in a vacuum, everything is related. We can accept minor concessions as fact while still believing them to be woefully insufficient.
Oh, no doubt. Biden’s not nearly enough.
Example: Biden made a massive improvement to the US’s greenhouse gas emissions, the impact of which is predicted to be a 40% reduction in emissions by 2030. Is that enough? Uh… if it had been by the year 2000, maybe. We’re still facing a guaranteed global catastrophe. We need to keep pushing for more change, right now, and anyone who’s satisfied with what Biden did so far is living in a dream world.
Where I have a problem with it is when someone extrapolates that out to “and that’s why there’s no reason to support Biden in his contest vs Trump, when Trump wants to undo even that much, and when Biden’s climate action was the first big-scale thing any US politician has ever done to make the problem into an actual priority.”
If anything I’m saying sounds like “and so Biden is good enough,” it is not. What I am saying is that affirmatively choosing the Biden solution in this election while also pushing for big improvements in any one of 10-20 additional ways to achieve actual progress sounds like the way to go.
I don’t disagree with your conclusion that Biden is not as bad as Trumo, I just disagree with your framing and methods for reaching out to disaffected Leftists.
The crux of my argument is that opening with minor, insufficient positive changes that come nowhere close to enough just turns these disaffected leftists away.
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I’m punching left. The left has been infected with tankies and agitators. We need their votes but those votes won’t happen until we exorcise the Russians and useful idiots. Compromise doesn’t work, they hate compromise. Complete and total capitulation doesn’t work either because they’re fundamentally being run by people who are interested only in harming America. We need to call out and shame this insanity so we can make the reasonable ones wake up and smell the propaganda.
It’s working, but we might have been too late.
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The fascists want to literally kill you (and me). I just want to shame you into doing the right thing and kicking out the Russians in your midst. If you think that’s equal, boy have I got a work camp for you.
American power only rewards those that don’t threaten it and punishes those that do.
The left is the last hope America has to reform anything in a positive direction, but sadly liberals would rather abide power than join the left and transform our collapsing system into a force of good.
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liberals would rather attack leftists than try to work with them.
That’s because liberals know (despite their pretensions otherwise) that leftists threaten their oh-so-precious status quo.
Liberals also know that, when push comes to shove, they are going to need the fascists to protect said oh-so-precious status quo for them - despite their pretensions otherwise.
Nothing liberals do or say is a mystery once you understand that.
Liberals would rather defend genocide than join leftists in trying to force Biden’s hand and gain back leftist voters.
What an asinine statement. There are those of us who understand that Israel is a sovereign fucking Democracy and it’s not our job to police them and literarily throw out everything any and everything else in this insane fight to stop Israel.
I want the war to stop. But I also live in the real world where conflicts exist and it’s not our job to fix everything and everyone. We’ve got plenty of shit to deal with here, and if you want to put any pressure on anything, put pressure on Israelis to handle their own government and foreign policy.
Equating people not thinking that the Israel conflict is our #1 concern that needs to trump absolutely everything else with supporting genocide is beyond idiotic and unkind.
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speaking a liberal, i find it’s the leftists who refuse to work with me. and would rather tell me off that i’m anti-trans over not asking them their pronoun rather than find common ground.
also their delusion that minorities are leftist by default. blacks and latinos are moving towards conservatives, because they tend to be more socially conservative than whites.
I think that’s a bit of a strawman, no? I haven’t seen leftists call people transphobic for not asking for pronouns. Misgendering, certainly, but not asking? Haven’t seen that.
i dunno i’m sure those annoying types exist but they are not nearly as common as our fascist uncles insist they are. im around many leftists and havent met one who was as outwardly annoying as some people suggest most leftists are.
well if i’ve experienced that IRL, is it a strawman still? if i call someoen ‘they’ and them blow up at me, because they are a he or a she, am i an asshole?
because apparently leftists think i am. at least the people who did that to me very much self processed themselves as leftists and love to loudly brag about how cool and anarchist they are. as if their political beliefs are nothing more than an aesthetic choice…t
That sounds frankly absurd. It wouldn’t be a strawman, but an unfair assumption that a one-off anecdote is the norm for leftists. Then again, you very well could be transphobic and are leaving out details, who knows.
Someone having firm beliefs they are proud of does not make it an “aesthetic choice.”
Sounds like you need to do some self-reflection and introspection.
Case in point: this whole damn thread lmao
💯
When they can’t find anything good to say about their own party, attacking the opposition is the entirety of their argument.
Hi!
Biden tried to forgive half a trillion dollars in student debt, took the biggest action on climate change in history which is estimated to reduce emissions by 40% by 2030 if Trump doesn’t undo it, strengthened the NLRB which has been giving legal backing to a lot of these union wins, grew wages at the bottom end of the pay scale even in the face of historic inflation, and a few other things.
It is also relevant that he doesn’t want to end democracy in the Unites States, “finish the job” in Gaza, or fire on protestors with live ammunition, like Trump does. But if for some reason you’ve decided it’s not allowed to make the decision on those bases (and I don’t know why it wouldn’t), there are also good things to say about Biden.
Oh, I mean, my bad. Rail strike worst president ever both sides amirite
Biden rejoined the Paris Climate Agreement, revoked the Keystone Pipeline permit, created a 13 million acre federal petroleum reserve for Alaskan wildlife, greatly increased oil site lease cost, signed $7B in solar subsidies, enacted the Inflation Reduction act to support clean energy, created the CHIPS Act to improve reliance on domestic technology, reenacted Net Neutrality, repealed Title 42, ended the Muslim Ban, signed the Equality Act for LGBTQ+ rights, restored gay rights to beneficiaries, reenacted trans care anti-discrimination law, signed the Respect for Marriage Act, enabled unspecified gender on US Passports, rejoined WHO, rescheduled marijuana, reducing drug costs with the American Rescue Plan Act…
Edit: I misunderstood when I read the second half of your comment. For what it’s worth, I agree about Israel. It’s simply not a comparison since Trump has been clear about his intentions with Palestine and Ukraine.
Wait, I am confused. Are we arguing? I thought Biden was doing great up until Netanyahu started killing Gazans by the thousands. He’s been doing weird little half-hearted things like holding up the weapons shipments, but hauling Netanyahu to the ICC would have been a better idea.
But yes, in general, Biden’s a huge improvement over the norm in a bunch of ways that for some reason aren’t talked about real often, and Trump is the end of the world (for the Palestinians and other Arabs and Hispanics and a whole bunch of other minorities foreign and domestic, in addition to everyone else). I feel like we’re on the same page on that, and I didn’t realize when I read your first message.
My initial comment was intended to imply that there’s no “pro-Trump” argument, only “anti-Biden” arguments, so it read that way to me. I’m sorry if I misunderstood your intention through context. I’m pretty tired. I’ll edit for clarity.
Ha, all good. I got it backwards; I thought you were saying the opposite. But yeah, makes sense.
Maybe I am just excited to argue with some internet “leftists” who for some reason have their leftism mostly restricted to activism about not voting for Biden, and nothing else. There are a lot of them here in general, but maybe they are absent currently in this thread, because they’re afraid we will gang up on them
Agreed. It’s selfish and arrogant to know Trump will facilitate the killing of more innocent civilians and still abstain from voting on principle. Biden is literally the lesser of two evils in regards to Israel. Hopefully the UN and State Department find enough proof to give Biden a firm platform for withdrawal of support soon. It’ll save lives, and we won’t have to think about the despicable trolley car from now until November.
I was the one who had it backwards. Thanks for being understanding of my confusion.
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It is also relevant that he doesn’t want to end democracy in the Unites States, “finish the job” in Gaza, or fire on protestors with live ammunition.
yet, he does. democracy is barely a thing in the US, israel is finishing the job on gaza with his money, and students were disproportionaly crushed by the police for daring to even complain.
i judge politicians by actions and not words.
Rail strike worst president ever both sides amirite
unironically this. he used police force to coopt what could have been the first actual worker win in decades for less than bare minimum rights. he prohibited them from striking. he did stop rich people from losing money from it.
I didn’t realize that the police departments reported directly to the President. Do you have a source on that?
how will trump shoot the protesters like op is saying he will then?
He can’t. They were simply referring to Trump’s response to the peaceful protest of the killing of George Floyd. “Can’t you just shoot them, just shoot them in the legs or something?” It’s not within his power, although it does clearly illuminate his opinion of protesters.
If the President takes direct oversight of local law enforcement, we have much larger problems on our hands. That’s exactly how Benito Mussolini took fascist control of his nation.
If the President takes direct oversight of local law enforcement, we have much larger problems on our hands.
why cant biden do this then?
For the same reason Trump can’t. I wrote “the President,” not Trump, for a reason. There’s a hierarchy in local and state law enforcement unlike the direct command of military or the National Guard. They are state-regulated bodies, not overseen nationally. The Director-General of Police reports to the Mayor, who in turn reports to the Governor.
If the National Guard shows up to regulate a protest, you can blame the President. Y’know, like Trump did to the protesters in DC and Portland.
I’m not OP, but Trump attempted more than once to have the National Guard shoot protesters with live ammunition.
There are enough guardrails in place that it didn’t work, but part of what I expect this time around would be the Florida State Guard and similar Neo-brownshirts coming into their own so that he would literally be able to do it.
Also, he had CBP showing up to protests and snatching people without identifying themselves or utilizing the existing jail / police / court infrastructure. It actually took a little time for people to even figure out who were these unidentified big quasi-police grabbing protestors and driving away with them, or where they had taken them.
Biden is, as far as I know, not personally involved in violence against protesters today. Trump was personally involved in violence against BLM protesters, and wanted to increase its severity to lethal force levels.
Yes. The President can direct the National Guard, not the state or local police that have been shutting down protests. Their oversight begins with the Mayor, and stops at the Governor. The President must formally declare a National Emergency to have police oversight. If you want to complain about the police, blame the Mayor. If the National Guard shuts down a protest, blame Biden.
so he won’t?
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If you need any more convincing than “stop the fascists”, you’re a collaborator.
I must be a collaborator. Democrats campaigned in 2020 to shut down camps at the border, reasonably support the conclusion of the pandemic, fund infrastructure and restore state/union support. When did “stop the fascist” become a political platform? Why are Democrats not complicit in mass murder?
Well, they did a lot of that.
Biden got the railworkers the things they wanted in the strike without a strike.
Biden has cleared billions of dollars for rail support.
He was also the first president in the history of the United States to walk a picket line.
As far as the camps are concerned, it would require congress to end them as the camps are powered by a law that was passed underneath GWB.
Its not bidens fault some of you are unable to read.
biden stopped the railworkers strikes forcibly and gave them bare minimum, still bad protections. my third world country can still do better so far.
that strike had the potential to kick off the next workers rights movement and actually make you on par with the rest of the developed world.
biden coopted a mass movement and stopped rich people from losing money, and workers from actually getting something done for the first time in decades. using violent police force and painting himself as a saviour. all that with a pathetic 30-second speech over the picket line. stay away next time.
he can move billions of dollars all he wants but its meaningless when that money doesnt actually go to people, but sure im the one unable to read.
Biden fired the guy who used to run the NLRB, and put in a bunch of actually pro-labor people, who gave lots of material support to all this union activity that coincidentally has been meeting with all sorts of success over the last couple of years.
I’m not trying to downplay the hard work that unions have been putting in that have been getting them significant gains in the last few years. But Biden’s NLRB has been right there with them negotiating with the companies and giving them legal support which is absolutely crucial.
my third world country can still do better so far.
Wait – you’re not from the US, and deeply concerned with the US election and wanting to weigh in on who needs to win it?
I know when I have some spare time, I like to go involve myself in British elections, or Japanese; I talk on message boards to people from those countries and have all sorts of things to tell them about how they should vote. It’s just something I like to do.
so he basically coopted the movement with his own appointed people, with bipartisan support. the actual result of it is zero paid time off for sick workers, one of their main concern when striking. they are still working grueling hours, and have to be on call for even more grueling hours. IIRC biden even outlawed further strikes under threat of violence (!!!). the one good thing he did was increase their bad salaries for… slightly less bad salaries, no free time and no further right to demand anything else?
thats a lot of shifting money and people around so they can pretty much end the strike without caving to most of the worker’s demands, and keep the status quo. that is the main thing when leftists complain about elected “left” wing representatives being all talk while still keeping workers in a bad situation.
the threat to the shareholders’ pockets alone was enough to get them on their feet and respond immediatly, this could have been the birth of another worker’s rights movement, but it was a big nothingburger instead.
about the ad hominem, let me give you the tip of the iceberg: our conservative politicians literally went to the us recently, to basically ask your politicians for brutal sanctions on our country, the same people who tried to copycat trump’s jan 6 so yeah, i have all the reason to be concerned given your long history messing with our democracies in the region. thanks for the condescention though, but i bet a lot of you have many concerns about ukranian and russian politics now.
so he basically coopted the movement
Absolutely false.
Unions in the US have the same leaders they always did. Now, though, they have an NLRB who will fight legal battles on their behalf. Here’s a general overview.
How on earth is that a bad thing? You’re saying the NLRB was “coopted” by the federal government? I’m having trouble even understanding what you’re saying happened, here.
i have all the reason to be concerned given your long history messing with our democracies in the region
Yeah, this part makes sense to me (and in particular as a reason to be suspicious of any US politician, Biden included). That said, given Trump’s unusual-even-compared-with-the-American-standard support for overt dictators the world over, including Bolsonaro, you should definitely want Trump not to win power again, right?
https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
Doesnt look like zero days to me.
You should read more.
Also, sounds like youre mad at our conservatives and piling that hate onto biden for some reason.
He also funded infrastructure just a little bit - there was some sort of bill concerned with it that happened
I swear, the “progressives” on lemmy are basically brain dead.
Granted, they aren’t actually progressive, but thats beside the point.
Its not bidens fault some of you are unable to read.
Biden has become the Obama of the terminally online. Anything bad happens? THANKS BIDEN
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No, I’m in agreement with you.
A fascist best friend is a liberal who would rather punch left.
Aww man but if im not super condescending about how everyone should vote for biden then I won’t get to say “I told you so” when trump wins and does the worst shit possible.
Disclaimer im voting for biden shut the fuck up.
I’ve found most people here are fairly respectful honestly. Not always but way better than most online spaces.
Yessssss, finally meme I agree with, and therefore am required to like. Our funy memes, their horrible propagandist image macros, our nuanced conversationalism, their lunatic screaming, etc.
I dunno guys I think I’m just like an exhausted contrarian maybe. Can I get like, can I get a lemmy where every post is just a link to an interesting blog post, or something? Do I have to construct that lemmy myself, only to watch it totally fail because nobody reads blog posts in the year of our lord 20XX?
Cue all the shitlibs pouring out of the woodwork to come and shill Genocide Joe…
Solid comment, real world changing shit right there bud.
real world changing shit
Not like “vote harder,” eh?
Centrists? You mean Republicrats? AKA Democrats who are just like how Republicans used to be? I guess the pendulum is swinging the other way again.
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Perhaps it’s just my subjective experience, but to me it looks pretty much other way around.
Visiting Lemmy from lemmy.world, liberal-bashing seems a bit like a folk sport for leftists in most threads that touch current world politics.
Read literally any MSM news headline
Not seeing it, sorry.
- It’s pretty normal that main stream reporting looks critically at fringe groups. That can be frustrating, but it’s not an attack. Also consider that any time MSM publish anything that could outrage the political fringes, it is cherry picked and makes its run through the fringe communities.
- To consider that as liberals attacking the left, I’d have to put on a tin foil hat and buy into the far-right conspiracy theory of “liberal bias in media” or even assume the main stream media and liberals are synonymous.
- And if I was taking “MSM” literally, the most-watched news medium in the US happens to be Fox News, which essentially put the idea of blaming and vilifying liberals for all the ills in the world on the map.
I did obviously mean liberal media, not Fox or News max if that’s still a thing.
This is posted from Lemmy.world’s political meme community, within the context of Lemmy.world, liberalism is the status quo. Within the context of broader Lemmy, leftism is the status quo, so bashing liberalism is more common on those threads.
Aw did a both sideser get called out? 🥺
Oh no, it hurt his feewings. Maybe a little advocacy for fascism will cheer him up!
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“Why would these mean shitlibs push back when we shit on them???”
No clue. It must be their inherent social fascism coming out. Don’t worry - I’m sure accelerationism will totally work out this time!
“Reeeeeeee people don’t like my lame anti-Biden posting reeeeeeeeeeeeee”
It wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t always such lame criticism or some nobody’s opinion like we should give a fuck what Ja says.
Feels like the CCP presence on instances other than ml and hexbear has been climbing a lot, lately.
