If a country that was more progressive than the US (not hard to find one) started bombing the shit out of New York City, would you be like “well, they deserve it for their transphobia”?
Do you realize that Orthodox Jews consider women to be inferior to men? Like, they won’t even shake a woman’s hand.
Sacha Baron Cohen, Zionist shithead though he is, actually got chased down the street in Israel by an angry mob for playing his flamboyant gay character Bruno. He had to yell “I’m a Jew I’m a Jew” to keep from getting the shit kicked out of him.
Israel is literally committing genocide RIGHT NOW. I’m sure there are plenty of gay, trans, nonbinary Palestinians who have head their limbs blown off, if that’s really what upsets you.
The genocide apologism is so obvious it’s sad. You point to one issue that will make liberals go “oh no, scary Muslims!” and you run with that. Fix your heart.
I’m not “apologizing for genocide”, I’m pointing out that people cheering on a state that tortures atheists and LGBT people is wrong. Fix your head.
Literally nobody is “cheering on” Iran. As so many others have said, we’re cheering for the defeat of Israel. May they rot in hell.
Imperialist aggression is wrong. Full stop. You don’t get to murder a bunch of people because you claim the moral high ground on one issue. The US never “brought democracy to Iraq” either. They killed a million people and ran some sham elections for the optics.
Call me self-righteous all you want. You’re defending settler colonialist aggression. Give the Palestinians a chance at self-determination and stop murdering people in their homes. Then we can talk about LGBTQ rights.
People literally are cheering on Iran, hence the meme. Lucky you for not seeing it. Please explain how pointing out defending a brutal theocracy is wrong means must I back a different one.
You may not get this, but real life isn’t good guys vs bad guys, both states are evil. You aren’t obligated to back a side, you can just watch both evil states suffer. Or fuck it, cheer for Iran and assume anyone who doesn’t is a genocide apologist or whatever, I’m not your conscience.
I don’t think people are cheering on Iran, I think they’re cheering for Israel to be on the receiving side of violence for once.
And theyre also cheering on Iran, hence the meme.
So… all the other times Israel has been on the receiving end of violence are what exactly? Not worth it? Why, pray tell, those times do not count specifically?
Is there a particular characteristic of the Israeli population that makes those times not count for your metrics?
Ah yes, the wild Crybully in it’s natural environment, you can tell by the way it proudly displays it’s plumage of bright, garish accusations of anti-semitism every time it feels even slightly threatened.
forget being threatened, they use antisemitism whenever they are criticised for their unprovoked murdering of kids or shooting people trying to get food for their starving families. at this point israel is threat to entire humanity not just middle-east.
this same framework of shameless brutality + propaganda of right to defend is now used by rabid oligarchy against the working class across us.
Not enough since the apartheid regime still has large parts of Palestine under their contol.
Cheering on civilians getting bombed, sounds familiar.
This is a “let them fight” situation
I guess but it sucks for civilians caught in the crossfire. Can’t we just have a Khamenei/Bibi cage fight instead?
And then we just don’t let the winner out of the cage.
Make it a knife fight.
There are no winners in a knife fight.
The problem is, large parts of each country are supporting their government in what they’re doing.
The “settlers” aren’t civilians, they chose this fight and hopefully they get what they deserve.
No uninvolved civilians huh? Where have I heard that before…
The “settlers” have used force for political reasons so they’re terrorists.
Terrorists aren’t civilians so they’re all valid targets.
So what you’re telling me is if you lived in Israel you’d be pro-genocide lol. You’re using the exact same logic as a transparent fig leaf for your anger and hatred, just like many Israelis do against Palestinians.
You can’t make blanket statements about people based on where they live or what family they were born to. They’re all different individuals with different beliefs and backgrounds. Not all Israelis support the violence, not all of them are settlers, many were born there. Some even lived there for generations. This is nonsense.
I never mentioned all Israelis. I said the settlers are terrorists, which they are per the definition.
Also what anger and hatred? I’m simply calling it as I see it.
The settlers use violence to destroy Palestinian communities, bulldoze them and then build their homes on stolen land in pursuit of a political agenda.
They’re terrorists and strikes on terrorists should be recognised as such.
Contextually I thought you were just calling all Israelis settlers. All Israelis (and all Iranians) will be threatened by a war between their countries. But OK, if that’s not what you meant then what I said doesn’t apply. Just a weird thing to focus on since it’s unlikely Iran would specifically target settlers.
Iran has the right to defend itself, as they like to say
Another reason to hate Israel. They’re making me agree with Iran.
Ew.
Maybe you should reconsider your prejudice, then. Why are you so spiteful towards the country geopolitically opposed to the genocidal entity and doing something about it? Do you treat western countries (all of them maintaining economic, diplomatic and military ties with Israel) with the same contempt?
Just to add that I have become quite allergic to the “pre-emptive strike”, “weapons of mass destruction “ justification for war. Have we learned nothing?
Is the Iran regime bad? Yes. Are they colonial outpost that is actively committing genocide? No. Are the Iranian people settlers like the Israelis? No.
Who is dragging the US into war with Iran and potentially WW3? Israel.
Does this help maybe?
But Israel is not expanding into Iran or bombing civilian areas (yet). If we’re purely talking about Israel - Iran conflict, you have to do some serious brain gymnastics to wish for IRGC to win. Best outcome here is the fall of Iranian islamic regime and people can take back their freedom
I have no clue how much this will hurt Israel, but I have my doubts the pain will be big.
But Israel is not expanding into Iran or bombing civilian areas (yet)
Israel literally bombed apartment complex with scientists as part of their unprovoked attacks.
Best outcome here is the fall of Iranian islamic regime
A change of regime in Iran is the wet dream of Netanyahu. Just this should tell you how bad of a thing it is.
and people can take back their freedom
You need to read a bit on Libya and Syria, the gracious interventions by the west did NOT result in a blossoming LGTPDASODNA+ democracy haven.
If we’re purely talking about Israel - Iran conflict, you have to do some serious brain gymnastics
You have to do at least as much gymnastics to ignore the context surrounding this conflict though.
Nuclear weapons?
Gonna ask for a more credible source on those numbers. That website is basically yellow press of Iranian state media
We have entered the “Ok so they are bombing civilian areas but its not that bad” stage of denial.
People are cheering on Iran out of pure spite, not out of genuine support for Iran.
The American people are tired of our government spending out tax dollars to support a genocide and then gaslighting us about it when we call them out. They are also persecuting dissenters on it. This has happened under both Biden and Trump, though Trump has leaned more on the persecution. We are fucking sick of it.
There is satisfaction in seeing someone stand up to genocidal Israel, even if the party doing so is despicable in their own right. I think people would greatly prefer getting behind a western democracy taking a stand, but we’re at a point where people will take what they can get. Especially with it being clear that the aforementioned western democracies aren’t going to do shit against genocidal Israel.
To non Americans, watching Americans trying to lead the charge against genocide, colonialism and unjust wars is a clown show to me. Especially because it will all be forgotten the next time the U.S invades another country. I’m not against any of these ideas, I just want Americans to shut it and fix their own shit right now
Yeah, that’s valid we’ve been putting off self-improvement of our democracy pretty heavily since the last civil war for fear of another instead of just ripping off the bandaid and realizing it could have been done in reform if we hadn’t let the wounds fester, so to speak.
That effort was intentionally sabotaged after Lincoln’s assassination. So there’s that.
People are cheering on Iran out of pure spite, not out of genuine support for Iran
Speak for yourself. Iran has consistently been politically, diplomatically, economically and morally opposed to the Zionist entity since before I was born. I wish westerners had a shred of the empathy towards Palestinians that they pretend to have for gays in scary brown people countries when said countries oppose US interests. If you care so much about LGBT rights, go and fucking join an org in your home country, I’m sure you have plenty of far-right people committing hate crime against LGBT in your country, if not outright legalising it in the government.
Iran has consistently been politically, diplomatically, economically and morally opposed to the Zionist entity since before I was born.
Yes. Which is the very reason that they are getting critical support from many people right now.
I wish westerners had a shred of the empathy and everything after this point in your comment
Who are you addressing here? It seems like this isn’t aimed at me, but rather people who support LGBT but then are upset about other people cheering on Iran?
I don’t think people are cheering them on in general. Just cheering them on against Israel. Which, like…yeah. One of these countries has been committing outright genocide and murdering journalists and aid workers en mass for the last 2 years, and then provoked this latest attack by firing missiles at the other.
80* years
How long has Iran been killing gays?
I’m guessing it really picked up after the 1979 islamic revolution, so 46 years.
The state of Israel was recognised by the US in 1948, so 77 years ago.
How does this plays out in your head now? Please explain, but I’m really curious how one thing related to the other.
Israel has killed more gays in the last year than Iran has in its existence
Really? Source for that, seems very hard to believe
Last year, Lancet estimated the dead in Gaza at about a quarter of a million. A year has passed since then, and the killing has only increased, so it’s plausibly at at least twice that now. Approximately 5 percent of people are gay, and Israel makes no destination in killing them, so that’s about 25,000 murdered gays.
Exact numbers for Iran are hard to find, but its of the order of magnitude of less then 1 a year, plus 20 in the immediate aftermath of the revolution.
So it’s a two digit number vs a five digit one.
That’s quite a leap in logic. Israel hasn’t killed any of these people because they are gay. I do see the point you are trying to make but defending the systematic killing of gay people undertaken by hamas or iran with whataboutism doesn’t help anyone
I don’t think people are cheering them on in general.
I wish that was true, but I’ve seen plenty of people cheer Iran on in general.
Campism is utter brainrot.
Israel is executing gay people, and straight people, and fathers, and mothers, and babies, and the elderly, and the sick, and the disabled, people in hospitals, and in refugee camps, and Muslims, and Christians, and Jews, and on, and on.
Eh, one side is committing genocide, has been ethnically cleansing Palestinian, continually attacking neighboring countries, and effectively murdering gay people as well (do you think the 2000 pound bombs make an exception for gay people?) and the other side is a theocracy with all the flaws that come with that. When it comes down to it, Israel is far, far worse than Iran. You can support parties you’re critical of.
Israel is also a theocracy.
I think the more morally sound position is to not support either of them (Zionists and Islamists).
I disagree, for three reasons. The first is effectively “inaction in the face of an oppressive status quo is complicity”, and that’s the weakest of the three, I’ll be the first to admit. The second is that any nation has a right to defend itself when attacked. And that is very much what’s going on here.
The third, for me, is the main reason, and it’s an analogy. Imagine a situation with three people, a child rapist, a wife beater, and a child. The rapist is on the verge of raping the child, and the wife beater asks you to give him your gun to stop it (just imagine you’re unable to fire it yourself for some reason). In this scenario, I would give the gun to the wife beater. I would be supporting a bad guy (he beats his wife), but I would do it 11 times out of 10.
For clarity, Israel is the child rapist, Iran the wife beater. And yes, the relative magnitude of immorality here corresponds with that between Israel and Iran.
me when people like you conveniently start to pretend to care about gay people only when something happens to Israel
The other 350 days a year they’re “concerned” about the fairness of allowing trans athletes to compete.
?? Since when is calling out pro-islamists just pretending to be pro-gay rights? Iran beats women to death for wearing the wrong clothes and tortures atheists if you want some more groups you can claim I’m just pretending to care about.
So are you contending that gay people should be openly supportive of Isreal, a country actively engaged in a genocide?
You see the problem here, right? These aren’t black and white, one side good, one side bad situations.
Iran is a terrible country. My partner and I would both be stoned to death there. But there are also queer people living in Iran, in spite of their intolerant regime, many of whom would likely suffer greatly if Isreal manages to force Iran into a war.
Reality is more complicated than just assigning “good guys” and “bad guys”. That shit is for Star Wars.
In this specific situation, there is no justification for what Isreal has done. Their attacks on Iran have been unprovoked, and in clear violation of international law. These must recent attacks, by Israel’s own admission, include non-military targets which makes them war crimes. Iran on the other hand has responded carefully and proportionally. Does it feel weird to be giving props to such a horrific regime for their behaviour? Absolutely. But it’s impossible not to recognize that in this specific situation they are being the adult in the room.
Isreal is actively trying to provoke a war with Iran precisely because they believe it will turn international opinion in their favour, distract from the holocaust they are enacting in Gaza and shore up domestic support for their government. I’m not a fan of anyone involved in this situation, but I sure as hell am not going to express support for the country trying to start a war to distract from their genocide.
Basically, it’s like watching two of the worst people you know go at it in a fight.
That would be the US fighting Israel
Iran has problems, for sure, however it’s hardly the worst state in the region. In fact, on multiple occasions they’ve been willing to work with the UN and US to try and rejoin the international community.
The issue is both Israel and the US have acted like utter asses towards them.
Obama’s nuclear deal showed just how willing they were to engage in diplomacy. Even after Trump killed the deal, Iran was saying they’d be willing to renter again.
And frankly, the reason for Israel’s attack was almost surely because the Trump admin was again getting close to signing another nuclear deal.
There’s way too much conflating of Islamic nations and their policies. Iran isn’t perfect or great, but it is better than a fair number of the regions governments including many current allies.
Honestly when I read this it’s just like “you think Iran is bad but really the whole area is a cesspool” not that I personally disagree with that take but not sure you meant to throw the entire region under the bus, where it belongs
Yeah like, can they both lose please?
“Can the British Empire and Nazi Germany both lose please”
there is absolutely nothing in the post that’s pro-Israel. it’s purely to remind people that two different things can both be bad.
both states, Israel and Iran, love doing crimes against humanity, and neither should be celebrated.
So are you contending that gay people should be openly supportive of Isreal, a country actively engaged in a genocide?
No, as evidenced when I said “Me when people are cheering on Iran, a country that literally executes gay people” instead of “Gay people should be openly supportive of Israel”. As you did not read what I wrote, I did not read your further paragraphs about something I did not say.
Pity. Reading the further paragraphs would have made you realize that I wasn’t actually saying the the thing you assumed I was saying. But taking the path of least consideration seems to be your thing, so I can’t say I’m surprised.
If you can’t understand why your post comes across as potentially saying people should support Israel then you probably shouldn’t be speaking out on issues like this.
When you say to someone, “Oh, you support [thing]???” In a negative way, and that thing is something that is diametrically opposed to another thing, it is almost always going to come across as implying support for the diametrically opposed thing. Your reply then comes off as a very bad faith response at best, if not a full stumble into narcissism.
It sounds like you’re projecting a lot.
They clearly stated twice that they are a gay person that does not support Israel. Learn to read instead of just seeing what you want to see to justify your anger.
That explanation came after the fact. The original comment is a reply to the original post, which does not include any of that context. You need to learn how the progression of time works before you try to talk down to me about reading comprehension, because you can’t even comprehend what order things arrived in.
I think this says more about your limited perspective than ops, truthfully.
Exactly how is my perspective limited when I am literally empathizing with the perspective of someone else?
It’s possible to not support both sides of a conflict, and wish that nobody supports or cheers on either side. Peace is when Iran and Isreal don’t fight at all, not when Isreal is retaliated against for something terrible they did.
Reality is more complicated than just assigning “good guys” and “bad guys”.
You wrote that, which you ironically follow with your straw man of OP
Lmao are you actually on tranquilizers or something? I literally, objectively, and demonstratively did not write that. You utter fool, you buffoon, you silly silly person, I am not the writer of the comment at the top of this chain. You are actually arguing with the wrong person.
Lesser evil
Not even that for me, it’s just Israel’s hypocrisy.
Even if we accept every single bit of western propaganda about Iran at face value it would still objectively be far less harmful than Israel, and the odds that our media is exaggerating and/or completely making shit up to manufacture consent for another war in the middle east are pretty good
Iran beats women to death for violating Hijab laws.
Israel has murdered more women in the last year than Iran has in decades.
Israel beats and bombs and starves women for no reason at all, and men and children.
Lesser. Evil.
Even that might be going too far. It’s more “the enemy of my enemy” situation.
Nope, definately a lesser evil. By a lot.
Agree to disagree.
Nah, you’re just biased against non-white countries. There’s no metric by which it’s close otherwise
They’re both non white by American standards, and they are both white for our standard, so keep projecting.
Lol. Israel is absolutely a White country, and Iran absolutely isn’t. Trying to pretend that isn’t the case is absurd
Nope, lesser evil means exactly what it sounds like.
If Iran gets its hands on a nuclear weapon it’s going to be a bad time. Might not be a lesser evil. They have showed how little regard they have for their own citizens, imagine those of other countries.
This conflict both reduces the amount of bombings in Gaza and distances Iran from getting a nuke, but it would be hard for me to say who’s the bigger evil.
You would basically have to think Palestinians aren’t human to say it’s not obvious who the lesser evil is
No, both Palestinians and Iranians are human, and both Israel and Iran are evil murderous regimes with disregard to human life.
And one has killed multiple orders of magnitude more humans, is trying to kill even more, and is the aggressor in this case. The British Empire was an evil murderous regime, but if someone was saying they weren’t the obvious lesser evil in World War 2, I would assume they are a Nazi
Because Iran isn’t capable of murdering people with the impunity that Israel has, not because they don’t want to, or wouldn’t if given the chance. If they get nukes that would change.
Following your example, Britain (and America) were both bad and the obvious lesser evil in ww2, but the Soviet union less so. They had their own genocide(s) they just weren’t able to scale it up fast enough before getting invaded.
Definitely are a lesser evil, quit imagining things. I’d trust Iran with nukes more than the US, we’re the only people in history to actually use them and we dropped them on civilians both times.
The US also massacred the indigenous population and a whole series of historic crimes, but we are talking about 2025.
Is there a statute of limitations on using nuclear weapons? Doesn’t matter, you’re still wrong either way
There is. Once a person is dead, you kinda cannot judge them anymore.
Iran’s leader issued a fatwa on nuclear weapons.
And said he would change it “if needed”.
That is true of literally every fatwa.
So it’s useless.
Nah dog. We ain’t cheering. We eating popcorn.
I personally am enjoying the popcorn, but some people are so anti-Israel they ended up pro-Iran
EDIT: the popcorn
Like people who are so anti-Russia they end up pro-Ukraine
You should put your entire head in an anthill. It will improve conditions inside your skull.
Weak
'Cause of religion. Don’t leave that part out. Also, remember, the US has an office of faith now. lmao
'Cause of religion.
Oil, actually.
There is concept on the left called “critical support” it broadly means we agree with that one thing you are doing, but we also do not agree with other things.
In this case we can say: For sure killing LGBTQ+ people is not good, but striking a country that is currently carrying out a genocide is a good thing.
P.S. if you have better source for critical support please send.
Iran’s not shooting missiles in defense of Palestine, just in retaliation for Israel shooting at them.
But there’s certainly a level of “oh, is blowing up an apartment building a bad thing? Then WTF have you doing???”
Good point, I still think that no matter (for this case at least) why are they doing it for, they are opposing Israel, and that is a good thing.
Iran’s not shooting missiles in defense of Palestine, just in retaliation for Israel shooting at them
And why is Israel shooting at Iran? Maybe because Iran is geopolitically opposed to the naziest state in this century, and that’s an awesome thing in and out of itself?
It seems to me this is yet another distraction scheme? Make the people supporting gay rights and the people opposing Israel’s cruelty angry at each other?
Don’t be fooled. Israel is throwing bombs at civilians regularly because it doesn’t even think of Palestinians as humans!
If Israel really stands for “Western values”, then i want nothing to do with them. If they throw bombs at innocent people, then they undermine their own credibility and don’t deserve to have a say in the world’s politics.
