Why do people fall for these stupid populistic statements?
We in Germany value human rights. We have some of the most pro-asylum laws and culture in the world. Which is part of the reason right wing parties like the AfD get popular.
The problem is, not every human is a saint, not even asylum seekers. Some come here without having a valid reason for asylum, because they are not actually persecuted. Others come here with the express intent to criminally exploit our welfare system. There’s lots of reasons to come here, but not all of them warrant asylum. These people should seek to immigrate properly like anybody else and not exploit our hospitality offered to people in need.
Now, under our previous Merkel government, we welcomed hundreds of thousands of refugees in an unusually short timeframe. Our chronically overworked and slow bureaucracy became even easier to exploit, many could simply wait out time limits on their asylum requests, making them automatically accepted without any check for validity.
I was an active volunteer helping arriving refugees get accommodated in their assigned first quarters (often old empty barracks, I helped with trips to all kinds of bureaucratic necessities, but also got a central free Wi-Fi set up for everyone to use and stuff like that), and funnily enough the most vivid calls for stricter handling of asylum requests and punishments for rule-breakers came from all the legitimate refugees: those were some of the most decent people, and they hated being associated by their status with any criminal refugees. The assigned building security and police quickly learned that they actually had to be swift in picking up fresh offenders, before street justice would be applied by their “fellow” refugees.
In short: We have laws and we try to follow, them. It’s not always easy.
Also, asylum is different from immigration, I feel many people forget that. If conditions in your place of origin have improved, you are expected to leave. Asylum is inherently temporary, contrary to migration.
And if you violate the trust and resources your host nation has given you, you should suffer legal consequences, just like any regular citizen. Committing hard felony crimes is obviously not a nice way to repay that trust, and as consequence we ask you to leave. If you refuse to do so in a (very) sufficient timeframe, we can use it executive power (police) to force you.
Last but not least… Each of these criminals even got 1000€ cash upon exiting the plane in their home country, just to ensure they have zero risk of having to live in inhuman conditions while they get reacquainted in their home society ( e.g. get an apartment and a job). Because that risk alone would be reason enough to make even the worst terrorist ineligible for deportation. Because it’s a basic human right to not have to live in extreme poverty and/or hunger.
I think that’s pretty much the opposite of “shitting on human rights” and definitely not what I expect many other nations would do with such foreign felons.
What is happening? I dunno, called out on your hateful rhetoric, perhaps? The article does not mention their crimes, just that they are convicted felons, but still people.
The article links to the above also, which resulted in the suicide of someone who spent his whole adult life in Germany who was deported to Afghanistan. Is he also “scum”?
Maybe people know more than what’s written in the article. Say, they might have read the German press. Like this article.
28 people, all convicted of serious crimes, examples given are a rapist, someone who got into trouble with the law 150 times, we have attempted manslaughter, aggravated robbery, aggravated bodily harm, another rapist, more aggravated bodily harm, more rape.
Three were held back by the state attorneys saying they want to prosecute further and/or want them to sit in prison for longer, two were not at home when police came to arrest them, one of those is now a fugitive.
Oh and all get 1000 Euros so they won’t straight-up starve on arrival.
Since they do not even seem to know why he was deported, no he was not. I don’t know what that article has to do with me not liking rapists and murderers though. Non refugee ones can be shot into space for all I care as well.
Deportation as reaction to crime or deviation is a failure of the justice system: a) Deportation to current Afghanistan for rape is not much of a penalty. b) Deprivation of liberty (jail) allegedly serves social rehabilitation; jail is thus supposed to display Täterarbeit, work with/on perpetrators to achieve accountability. Deportation of criminals deprives a society of justice.
A deported rapist isn’t going to rape any of the natives and citizens anymore.
So if I understood you correctly, “natives and citizens” symbolises people in Germany in context.
Deporting unwanted behaviour doesn’t lessen its effect in both societies, which are likely connected in some way anyways (ie not North Korea). Rape is still bad for a society if it exists in other societies, because the non-prevention (not working on perpetrators/would-be perpetrators) and subsequent normalisation of rape harms everyone.
Deportation of unwanted behaviour is a bit like exporting toxic waste; don’t expect the poison not to come back in some way.
However, it seems that in some ways neither society takes rape seriously.
In the case of many Western justice systems, such as Germany, the rapists aren’t seriously dealt with—the word “coddle” comes to mind, and we dare not mention that Islamic culture seems to tolerate rape even more.
So how do we deal with rapists?
Longer sentences? Too costly and many have criticized imprisonment.
Castration? It seems to tame other male mammals and ensures that the rapes won’t result in pregnancies, but many think it’s barbaric.
Social engineering—as all, or almost all, men are to varying degrees potential rapists, all need to be treated—which at the very least would mean more annoying PSAs that millions of non-violent men must suffer.
an additional court system for rape, where the burden of proof is lighter, but so are the punishments?
Idk.
But it seems that many men, who found refuge in a country that millions of Afghanis would probably love to go to but won’t be allowed in, who squandered the goodwill with violations of those among its more vulnerable natives and citizens, are being sent away; and I don’t think they will have that easy a time in Afghanistan. Perhaps they will be regarded as fools, as un-Islamic for leaving, easily identified if they come from some small village.
but if they stay in Germany, there might be one of 2 results:
the process reformed them, and they won’t violate again—possible but I wouldn’t count on it.
they are not reformed, and will violate again.
Also keep in mind that this isn’t really “exporting toxic waste”, but rather sending it back to where it originated, and if we are concerned with rape victims, maybe Germany could take an additional 5x that number of female refugees from Afghanistan, including their daughters and sons under 6 (the older ones possibly been too corrupted by Islamic Afghani culture).
No it is not. Once the justice system did it’s thing and people where convicted and incarcerated, they no longer meet the criteria for beiing allowed to stay in the country.
This in turn means the country has a legal obligation to zod you the F- out of their country and in the case of Germany… out of the Schengen/EU area. The person’s home country is Afghanistan, so that is where they go.
These people where informed of the strickt rules that apply to their staying in Germany, they ignored those rules and now they exhausted all their legal options to try and stay, end of the road, one way plane ride.
Thereby appeasing racists and shifting the compass, whilst shitting on human rights. Good work!
Why do people fall for these stupid populistic statements?
We in Germany value human rights. We have some of the most pro-asylum laws and culture in the world. Which is part of the reason right wing parties like the AfD get popular.
The problem is, not every human is a saint, not even asylum seekers. Some come here without having a valid reason for asylum, because they are not actually persecuted. Others come here with the express intent to criminally exploit our welfare system. There’s lots of reasons to come here, but not all of them warrant asylum. These people should seek to immigrate properly like anybody else and not exploit our hospitality offered to people in need.
Now, under our previous Merkel government, we welcomed hundreds of thousands of refugees in an unusually short timeframe. Our chronically overworked and slow bureaucracy became even easier to exploit, many could simply wait out time limits on their asylum requests, making them automatically accepted without any check for validity.
I was an active volunteer helping arriving refugees get accommodated in their assigned first quarters (often old empty barracks, I helped with trips to all kinds of bureaucratic necessities, but also got a central free Wi-Fi set up for everyone to use and stuff like that), and funnily enough the most vivid calls for stricter handling of asylum requests and punishments for rule-breakers came from all the legitimate refugees: those were some of the most decent people, and they hated being associated by their status with any criminal refugees. The assigned building security and police quickly learned that they actually had to be swift in picking up fresh offenders, before street justice would be applied by their “fellow” refugees.
In short: We have laws and we try to follow, them. It’s not always easy.
Also, asylum is different from immigration, I feel many people forget that. If conditions in your place of origin have improved, you are expected to leave. Asylum is inherently temporary, contrary to migration. And if you violate the trust and resources your host nation has given you, you should suffer legal consequences, just like any regular citizen. Committing hard felony crimes is obviously not a nice way to repay that trust, and as consequence we ask you to leave. If you refuse to do so in a (very) sufficient timeframe, we can use it executive power (police) to force you.
Last but not least… Each of these criminals even got 1000€ cash upon exiting the plane in their home country, just to ensure they have zero risk of having to live in inhuman conditions while they get reacquainted in their home society ( e.g. get an apartment and a job). Because that risk alone would be reason enough to make even the worst terrorist ineligible for deportation. Because it’s a basic human right to not have to live in extreme poverty and/or hunger.
I think that’s pretty much the opposite of “shitting on human rights” and definitely not what I expect many other nations would do with such foreign felons.
Meh scum can fuck right off. No sympathy for rapists.
For all the downvoters. Read the fucking article. I’m talking about scum, not refugees in general. Fucking hell.
Not what I said is it? Equating refugees to rapists/scum means it’s working on you.
Those 28 people sent back are conflicted felons. All of them committed serious crimes (Schwerverbrechen)
what the fuck is this?
An actual informed opinion instead of just an outraged comment?
Sir, this is Lemmy, I’ll have to ask you to leave!
Where the fuck did I call all refugees rapists?
Right here.
Yes the convicted felons they are sending back. Wtf is happening here.
What is happening? I dunno, called out on your hateful rhetoric, perhaps? The article does not mention their crimes, just that they are convicted felons, but still people.
https://www.reuters.com/article/world/germanys-seehofer-rejects-blame-for-deportees-suicide-after-birthday-boast-idUSKBN1K11N7/
The article links to the above also, which resulted in the suicide of someone who spent his whole adult life in Germany who was deported to Afghanistan. Is he also “scum”?
Maybe people know more than what’s written in the article. Say, they might have read the German press. Like this article.
28 people, all convicted of serious crimes, examples given are a rapist, someone who got into trouble with the law 150 times, we have attempted manslaughter, aggravated robbery, aggravated bodily harm, another rapist, more aggravated bodily harm, more rape.
Three were held back by the state attorneys saying they want to prosecute further and/or want them to sit in prison for longer, two were not at home when police came to arrest them, one of those is now a fugitive.
Oh and all get 1000 Euros so they won’t straight-up starve on arrival.
Since they do not even seem to know why he was deported, no he was not. I don’t know what that article has to do with me not liking rapists and murderers though. Non refugee ones can be shot into space for all I care as well.
Aight.
Because you assumed they are all “rapists and murderers”, which they are not.
Rapists shit on human rights as well
Deportation as reaction to crime or deviation is a failure of the justice system: a) Deportation to current Afghanistan for rape is not much of a penalty. b) Deprivation of liberty (jail) allegedly serves social rehabilitation; jail is thus supposed to display Täterarbeit, work with/on perpetrators to achieve accountability. Deportation of criminals deprives a society of justice.
A deported rapist isn’t going to rape any of the natives and citizens anymore.
As for the women of Afghanistan, at least the Taliban will protect their dignity and Allāh will not forget them. /s
So if I understood you correctly, “natives and citizens” symbolises people in Germany in context.
Deporting unwanted behaviour doesn’t lessen its effect in both societies, which are likely connected in some way anyways (ie not North Korea). Rape is still bad for a society if it exists in other societies, because the non-prevention (not working on perpetrators/would-be perpetrators) and subsequent normalisation of rape harms everyone.
Deportation of unwanted behaviour is a bit like exporting toxic waste; don’t expect the poison not to come back in some way.
You make decent points.
However, it seems that in some ways neither society takes rape seriously.
In the case of many Western justice systems, such as Germany, the rapists aren’t seriously dealt with—the word “coddle” comes to mind, and we dare not mention that Islamic culture seems to tolerate rape even more.
So how do we deal with rapists?
Longer sentences? Too costly and many have criticized imprisonment.
Castration? It seems to tame other male mammals and ensures that the rapes won’t result in pregnancies, but many think it’s barbaric.
Social engineering—as all, or almost all, men are to varying degrees potential rapists, all need to be treated—which at the very least would mean more annoying PSAs that millions of non-violent men must suffer.
an additional court system for rape, where the burden of proof is lighter, but so are the punishments?
Idk.
But it seems that many men, who found refuge in a country that millions of Afghanis would probably love to go to but won’t be allowed in, who squandered the goodwill with violations of those among its more vulnerable natives and citizens, are being sent away; and I don’t think they will have that easy a time in Afghanistan. Perhaps they will be regarded as fools, as un-Islamic for leaving, easily identified if they come from some small village.
but if they stay in Germany, there might be one of 2 results:
the process reformed them, and they won’t violate again—possible but I wouldn’t count on it.
they are not reformed, and will violate again.
Also keep in mind that this isn’t really “exporting toxic waste”, but rather sending it back to where it originated, and if we are concerned with rape victims, maybe Germany could take an additional 5x that number of female refugees from Afghanistan, including their daughters and sons under 6 (the older ones possibly been too corrupted by Islamic Afghani culture).
No it is not. Once the justice system did it’s thing and people where convicted and incarcerated, they no longer meet the criteria for beiing allowed to stay in the country.
This in turn means the country has a legal obligation to zod you the F- out of their country and in the case of Germany… out of the Schengen/EU area. The person’s home country is Afghanistan, so that is where they go.
These people where informed of the strickt rules that apply to their staying in Germany, they ignored those rules and now they exhausted all their legal options to try and stay, end of the road, one way plane ride.