Psol is the identitarian university teacher’s party, pstu is the party who for some whatever reason of the particular issue sides with imperialism 100% of the time. You are very misguided if you think they are far left. Both of them sided with the coup against Dilma
PSOL has tendencies that range from social-liberal, to “orthodox” Marxist, to Trotskyist to Marxist-Leninist. They even have tendencies that are inspired by the “Arab Spring”. It’s not advisable to be reductionist against them, specially since their broad range of tendencies is usually why they excel electorally but have a hard time getting anything done. (As opposed to parties that follow democratic centralism). They did not side against Dilma in the coup, and in fact voted unanimously in her defense and were even more dedicated in the “Fora Temer” campaigns than the PT itself.
PSTU is Trotskyist so I won’t defend them too much, they tend to fall into left-communism a lot, but they at least have a strong presence in workers unions and are usually the first on the ground for, for example, primary and secondary school teachers’ strikes. They did go against Dilma, in their typical ultra left fashion, demanding that the entire government be toppled. Not that any Marxist should be surprised when bourgeois democracy is undemocratic, though.
I suppose it should go without saying on a primarily Marxist-Leninist instance that Trotskyist or Trotskyist-adjacent parties like these two or the PCO aren’t going to receive much uncritical support, though at least they make themselves present and join forces in critical struggles like this one.
Boulos was the frontface of the pro coup left. He’s from psol afaik. Tendencies inside psol range from mildly pro imperialist to rabidly pro imperislist.
Also, pstu is not trotskist, they are morenists (and annoyingly so)
But my point is that all this thing came out of the blue and lots of enemies of the working class are supporting it. Its suspect to say the least
You don’t need to look very far for evidence of Boulos being against the coup. I suppose you refer to this article referring to the movement against the world cup, due to the harm it caused to the working class that had to be displaced or explored for the creation of the stadiums to entertain a gringo audience. It was also during an ascension of the PSOL as the left opposition right after the Luciana Genro campaign. Boulos has now become an avid defender of the PT, which is an abandonment of whatever leftwing commitment he had back then.
That was not a pro-coup movement, and the fact that what was supposed to be a class conciliation government couldn’t reconcile the tensions there is a failure of the PT. Claiming moral superiority by abstaining from another battleground for class struggle and letting it get taken over by the right is not a good look for the PCO.
Tendencies in the PSOL range from mildly pro imperialist to rabidly pro imperialist.
At least put an effort in your critique to discern how they are pro-imperialist. Most range from social-democratic to Trotskyist which, I agree, often side with imperialism.
A fair number are what patsocs would call “identitarian”, which means that they focus on racial, gender, and ethnic class issues and oppressions. Some are even left-liberal with a focus on minority entrepreneurship. The first has revolutionary potential, the second indeed co-opt important struggles for the sake of maintaining imperialism.
pstu is not trotskyist, they are morenists
The only true Trotskyists are Trotsky himself and Mercader’s ice axe. \s
I’m not going to defend Trotskyists again, with their obsession for splitting and calling themselves the only Marxists for “ideological purity”, rather than doing any actual praxis in a revolutionary direction. That’s just fighting over the title of “reactionary pseudo-revolutionaries with a newspaper”, and if the PSTU and Moreno don’t fit the bill, good for them. It is a confused and moribund dead-end ideology, and the fact that the PSTU often falls into a somewhat more effective anarcho-sindicalist strategy is good enough evidence for that.
As for the last point, both the Revolutions of 1905 and February 1917 had broad support from liberals, reformists, nationalists, Mensheviks, revisionists and even foreign bourgeois observers. It doesn’t mean those weren’t fights worth fighting for.
The only thing the left has to thanks Boulos for is finally destroying Psol. I think PSTU is, at this point, very aware that they allign with imperialism, but they are the ones who call themselves morenists, not me
Moreno was a trot, he was part of the fourth international. They also call themselves Trotskyists. You were the one saying they were not trots.
Boulos was one of the leaders of the movement for freeing Lula. Other than that he’s indeed a constitutional social-democrat who has finally given up the revolutionary aesthetic in this last election, an useful tactical ally at best. You mistake critical support on common goals for uncritical allyship when it comes to the other major Trotskyist parties.
Some of.those parties are not monolithical structure, PSOL have some good folks like Erica Hilton who wrote this proposal as well as Glauber Braga and Samia Bonfim, plus PCBR and UP also supported this project, and for Brazil they are as left as it gets. So I’m all for this movement is a return of the left in the streets, which is where the left thrives, in movement. This is the way for the Brazilian left get in touch with the working class who we’ve been loosing to the right for a long time.
You have a faith in psol thst i do not. I saw a lot of shit from them over the years. I wish things were as you say, but until we get anything concrete i keep my doubts. By the way, none of those parties go leftier than socdem with marxists phrasing. Pco is the only marxist party in Brasil
Oh it’s the PCO person again. Just stop with this, it’s embarrassing. You can’t just claim PCO is the only marxist party in Brasil, specially when PCO is so fucked up.
Exactly. Also FreudianCafe is an avid PCO defender. I responded to them before on Hexbear and just like here they were hellbent on defending every single PCO stance uncritically while claiming it is the only Marxist and anti-imperialist party.
His talking points in this very thread are the exact same stance PCO is taking on the VAT movement you can find it on their news page. Literally aligning with the right, like PCO always do.
This person is just a reactionary in leftist clothing.
Everyday I come closer to believing the claim that PCO is just a bunch of nazbols.
I have no doubt about it I just believe that here on grad it’s worthy to make explicit the incoherence of the argument independently of how credible or not is the person providing the argument, the argument must be undone on it’s merits or more specifically their lack of merit
Its not about having faith on PSOL it’s about trusting this particular motion, which is widely supported my many other parties, but you wanna treat PSOL as a toxic party while PCO has no problems agreeing with UNIAO or PL. Just look at what you are saying, that defending the workers in a subject that is a very historical left fight ia wrong? Who’s side are you on manot?
I have no faith in that party, although I have much less in PCO, I just think that the streets are much too valuable a space to be left to the right to be the only occupied by the right. We need to fight for what is fair and what benefits the workers, and reducing working hours is about as clearly a good goal as they come, to be against that seems very concerning.
Pco is the only party that put people on the street about gaza. Is that an important issue? Because boulos said more or less he doest give a fuck about it
Psol is the identitarian university teacher’s party, pstu is the party who for some whatever reason of the particular issue sides with imperialism 100% of the time. You are very misguided if you think they are far left. Both of them sided with the coup against Dilma
identitarismo é a minha pica
PSOL has tendencies that range from social-liberal, to “orthodox” Marxist, to Trotskyist to Marxist-Leninist. They even have tendencies that are inspired by the “Arab Spring”. It’s not advisable to be reductionist against them, specially since their broad range of tendencies is usually why they excel electorally but have a hard time getting anything done. (As opposed to parties that follow democratic centralism). They did not side against Dilma in the coup, and in fact voted unanimously in her defense and were even more dedicated in the “Fora Temer” campaigns than the PT itself.
PSTU is Trotskyist so I won’t defend them too much, they tend to fall into left-communism a lot, but they at least have a strong presence in workers unions and are usually the first on the ground for, for example, primary and secondary school teachers’ strikes. They did go against Dilma, in their typical ultra left fashion, demanding that the entire government be toppled. Not that any Marxist should be surprised when bourgeois democracy is undemocratic, though.
I suppose it should go without saying on a primarily Marxist-Leninist instance that Trotskyist or Trotskyist-adjacent parties like these two or the PCO aren’t going to receive much uncritical support, though at least they make themselves present and join forces in critical struggles like this one.
Boulos was the frontface of the pro coup left. He’s from psol afaik. Tendencies inside psol range from mildly pro imperialist to rabidly pro imperislist.
Also, pstu is not trotskist, they are morenists (and annoyingly so)
But my point is that all this thing came out of the blue and lots of enemies of the working class are supporting it. Its suspect to say the least
You don’t need to look very far for evidence of Boulos being against the coup. I suppose you refer to this article referring to the movement against the world cup, due to the harm it caused to the working class that had to be displaced or explored for the creation of the stadiums to entertain a gringo audience. It was also during an ascension of the PSOL as the left opposition right after the Luciana Genro campaign. Boulos has now become an avid defender of the PT, which is an abandonment of whatever leftwing commitment he had back then.
That was not a pro-coup movement, and the fact that what was supposed to be a class conciliation government couldn’t reconcile the tensions there is a failure of the PT. Claiming moral superiority by abstaining from another battleground for class struggle and letting it get taken over by the right is not a good look for the PCO.
At least put an effort in your critique to discern how they are pro-imperialist. Most range from social-democratic to Trotskyist which, I agree, often side with imperialism.
A fair number are what patsocs would call “identitarian”, which means that they focus on racial, gender, and ethnic class issues and oppressions. Some are even left-liberal with a focus on minority entrepreneurship. The first has revolutionary potential, the second indeed co-opt important struggles for the sake of maintaining imperialism.
The only true Trotskyists are Trotsky himself and Mercader’s ice axe. \s
I’m not going to defend Trotskyists again, with their obsession for splitting and calling themselves the only Marxists for “ideological purity”, rather than doing any actual praxis in a revolutionary direction. That’s just fighting over the title of “reactionary pseudo-revolutionaries with a newspaper”, and if the PSTU and Moreno don’t fit the bill, good for them. It is a confused and moribund dead-end ideology, and the fact that the PSTU often falls into a somewhat more effective anarcho-sindicalist strategy is good enough evidence for that.
As for the last point, both the Revolutions of 1905 and February 1917 had broad support from liberals, reformists, nationalists, Mensheviks, revisionists and even foreign bourgeois observers. It doesn’t mean those weren’t fights worth fighting for.
The only thing the left has to thanks Boulos for is finally destroying Psol. I think PSTU is, at this point, very aware that they allign with imperialism, but they are the ones who call themselves morenists, not me
Moreno was a trot, he was part of the fourth international. They also call themselves Trotskyists. You were the one saying they were not trots.
Boulos was one of the leaders of the movement for freeing Lula. Other than that he’s indeed a constitutional social-democrat who has finally given up the revolutionary aesthetic in this last election, an useful tactical ally at best. You mistake critical support on common goals for uncritical allyship when it comes to the other major Trotskyist parties.
Some of.those parties are not monolithical structure, PSOL have some good folks like Erica Hilton who wrote this proposal as well as Glauber Braga and Samia Bonfim, plus PCBR and UP also supported this project, and for Brazil they are as left as it gets. So I’m all for this movement is a return of the left in the streets, which is where the left thrives, in movement. This is the way for the Brazilian left get in touch with the working class who we’ve been loosing to the right for a long time.
You have a faith in psol thst i do not. I saw a lot of shit from them over the years. I wish things were as you say, but until we get anything concrete i keep my doubts. By the way, none of those parties go leftier than socdem with marxists phrasing. Pco is the only marxist party in Brasil
Oh it’s the PCO person again. Just stop with this, it’s embarrassing. You can’t just claim PCO is the only marxist party in Brasil, specially when PCO is so fucked up.
Here’s some examples:
PCO’s own newspaper saying that doing an act during carnival against a colonizer and bandeirante is identitarian and against “our culture, heritage and heroes”.
Here’s PCO being both ableist and lgbtphobic on Twitter by calling you the r-word for using neutral pronouns. (It’s full of right-wingers agreeing with the post in the comments)
PCO siding with Elon Musk for “unlimited freedom of speech” and against the ban of Twitter in Brasil.
PCO defending YouTuber Monark’s “freedom of speech” for saying that Brasil should have a Nazi party.
And here’s another one where they say they are against banning fascist parties.
Left-wing and marxist my ass. What a joke.
I thought it was someone who is on PCO side, leave it to them to be against the people, and they won’t disappoint
Exactly. Also FreudianCafe is an avid PCO defender. I responded to them before on Hexbear and just like here they were hellbent on defending every single PCO stance uncritically while claiming it is the only Marxist and anti-imperialist party.
His talking points in this very thread are the exact same stance PCO is taking on the VAT movement you can find it on their news page. Literally aligning with the right, like PCO always do.
This person is just a reactionary in leftist clothing.
Everyday I come closer to believing the claim that PCO is just a bunch of nazbols.
I have no doubt about it I just believe that here on grad it’s worthy to make explicit the incoherence of the argument independently of how credible or not is the person providing the argument, the argument must be undone on it’s merits or more specifically their lack of merit
Oh I agree 100%, I was just providing further context of this person’s views and behavior.
Ill take you as an ignorant person but with a good heart and advise you to inform yourself better
Its not about having faith on PSOL it’s about trusting this particular motion, which is widely supported my many other parties, but you wanna treat PSOL as a toxic party while PCO has no problems agreeing with UNIAO or PL. Just look at what you are saying, that defending the workers in a subject that is a very historical left fight ia wrong? Who’s side are you on manot?
I did not say its wrong. I said its suspicious. But keep your faith in psol, they are pros in destroying it, just wait
I have no faith in that party, although I have much less in PCO, I just think that the streets are much too valuable a space to be left to the right to be the only occupied by the right. We need to fight for what is fair and what benefits the workers, and reducing working hours is about as clearly a good goal as they come, to be against that seems very concerning.
Pco is the only party that put people on the street about gaza. Is that an important issue? Because boulos said more or less he doest give a fuck about it