Not sure if you’re serious but I’ll answer in case…
The problem with cock fighting is the vicious animal cruelty. Even in places where it’s fully legal and socially accepted they do nasty stuff like attach a blade to the leg so that when the birds attack each other it slices the opponent and ends the fight faster.
I am serious. I know that it is extremely cruel and I agree with you. I just think it’s weird that people are only selectively outraged with this and not with the animal cruelty that happens to the chickens that are for eating.
For example if I had to choose between being a male chick born in the egg industry or in the cock fighting business I would probably choose the fighting since I would rather fight for my life than be put in a blender alive? Maybe that’s not a common opinion and people think that’s more humane than fighting.
They don’t need to eat meat (according to all major dietician organizations). Since it is not out of necessity, it is for pleasure, same as watching animals fight.
Fair enough man. I definitely don’t want any chickens or eggs from the Matrix style battery farms either! I have a feeling that you can taste the despair.
98.3% of egg laying hens and 99% of meat chickens are factory farmed and even for that 1.7% of egg laying hens that are not factory farmed the male chicks are still usually macerated alive at one day old.
Dude I think it’s a bit disingenuous to compare culling to battery farms.
If we wanted to be 100% totally cruelty free we’d stop eating meat and stop industrialising the deaths of other species, but hey I’m also a meat eater and accept my sin there. I think by it’s very premise the meat industry is never going to be completely without cruelty, but I’d at least like the animals to have a happy dignified life before it’s ended for us to eat.
Culling (I presume and hope as humanely as possible) is one of those realities of farming food. It’s my understanding that even if you don’t eat meat, consuming produce from most farms will mean that your product like resulted in the deaths of various creatures known as “pests”.
I hope to one day own my own plot in the country and have my own chickens, whom I will take very good care of for the awesome supply of free eggs they give me and my family. Until then I’ll try to just shop as responsibly as possible.
P.S. The site you linked doesn’t have SSL… but generally in Australia we trust the local animal rights groups RSPCA to tell us what’s up and what’s safe. i.e. https://rspcaapproved.org.au/product/eggs/
Yeah I think that’s a fair point. I feel like meat eaters often use the utility of the carcass to justify the death - “They use every part of the chicken, nothing goes to waste”.
A lot of people do seem to think eating it is a more justifiable death then gambling on the life then disposing of the carcass, but maybe a beakless immobile battery hen would disagree.
All life gets eaten by something eventually, so consumption itself can’t be immoral.
Yeah we are not talking about the consumption part, we are talking about the killing part. If you find a dead squirrel or deer, it’s not immoral to eat them. Ending someone’s life against their will is though, it doesn’t really matter what your intentions are.
There is probably cases where you could try to morally justify anything (like in a survival situation I guess?) but I personally would try to abstain from killing under any circumstance.
The morals around eating animals are luckily not that vague. You do not need animal products to live (say all major dietician organizations) so the only reasons people are eating meat is out of habit or for taste. And pleasure does not justify killing a sentient being.
I did not compare them, they just have the trait you claimed was the justification for killing animals. Humans are animals and a subset of us have the trait you described. I just pointed out that is not a good justification.
I don’t get how there is outrage about chickens fighting when basically all bars serve dead chickens?
Not sure if you’re serious but I’ll answer in case…
The problem with cock fighting is the vicious animal cruelty. Even in places where it’s fully legal and socially accepted they do nasty stuff like attach a blade to the leg so that when the birds attack each other it slices the opponent and ends the fight faster.
I think you’re underestimating the cruelty of industrial poultry farming.
Now do boxing and MMA.
I am serious. I know that it is extremely cruel and I agree with you. I just think it’s weird that people are only selectively outraged with this and not with the animal cruelty that happens to the chickens that are for eating.
For example if I had to choose between being a male chick born in the egg industry or in the cock fighting business I would probably choose the fighting since I would rather fight for my life than be put in a blender alive? Maybe that’s not a common opinion and people think that’s more humane than fighting.
People need to eat, they don’t need cruel entertainment. And no, eating meat isn’t the same as entertainment from watching animals fight.
They don’t need to eat meat (according to all major dietician organizations). Since it is not out of necessity, it is for pleasure, same as watching animals fight.
Not all countries do that btw.
Also, if we’re really comparing, I don’t think you’d have much thought on choices at 1 week old, considering you wouldn’t even have self awareness.
Which countries don’t do this?
Human babies also don’t have self awareness. I don’t think that’s a trait that justifies killing someone.
Fair enough man. I definitely don’t want any chickens or eggs from the Matrix style battery farms either! I have a feeling that you can taste the despair.
98.3% of egg laying hens and 99% of meat chickens are factory farmed and even for that 1.7% of egg laying hens that are not factory farmed the male chicks are still usually macerated alive at one day old.
https://www.sentienceinstitute.org/us-factory-farming-estimates
If you don’t want those then please stop buying it to align your actions with your morals.
I live in Australia…
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Dude I think it’s a bit disingenuous to compare culling to battery farms.
If we wanted to be 100% totally cruelty free we’d stop eating meat and stop industrialising the deaths of other species, but hey I’m also a meat eater and accept my sin there. I think by it’s very premise the meat industry is never going to be completely without cruelty, but I’d at least like the animals to have a happy dignified life before it’s ended for us to eat.
Culling (I presume and hope as humanely as possible) is one of those realities of farming food. It’s my understanding that even if you don’t eat meat, consuming produce from most farms will mean that your product like resulted in the deaths of various creatures known as “pests”.
I hope to one day own my own plot in the country and have my own chickens, whom I will take very good care of for the awesome supply of free eggs they give me and my family. Until then I’ll try to just shop as responsibly as possible.
P.S. The site you linked doesn’t have SSL… but generally in Australia we trust the local animal rights groups RSPCA to tell us what’s up and what’s safe. i.e. https://rspcaapproved.org.au/product/eggs/
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Yeah I think that’s a fair point. I feel like meat eaters often use the utility of the carcass to justify the death - “They use every part of the chicken, nothing goes to waste”.
A lot of people do seem to think eating it is a more justifiable death then gambling on the life then disposing of the carcass, but maybe a beakless immobile battery hen would disagree.
The “nothing goes to waste” argument just ignores the victims life though. They did not want to die.
Also seems like a pretty easy solution then to just eat the killed bird and bing bang bosh: cock fighting is morally justified.
i Look at it this way. All life gets eaten by something eventually, so consumption itself can’t be immoral.
Causing suffering to the living certainly can be.
Yeah we are not talking about the consumption part, we are talking about the killing part. If you find a dead squirrel or deer, it’s not immoral to eat them. Ending someone’s life against their will is though, it doesn’t really matter what your intentions are.
What if someone ran over that dead deer. They killed it. Is it okay to eat a dead thing if someone else kills it?
Intention is what you’re looking for. It is immoral to intentionally kill someone.
I appreciate you sharing your moral perspective with me.
Do you have any fringe cases where intentionally killing someone is morally justified?
There is probably cases where you could try to morally justify anything (like in a survival situation I guess?) but I personally would try to abstain from killing under any circumstance.
The morals around eating animals are luckily not that vague. You do not need animal products to live (say all major dietician organizations) so the only reasons people are eating meat is out of habit or for taste. And pleasure does not justify killing a sentient being.
there is no proof nonhuman animals understand personal mortality, so we can’t say they have a will to live
A toddler or a mentally disabled person can’t understand morality. I wouldn’t personally kill and eat those.
I think you misread mortality as morality
Ah, you are right, I did. I believe the same can be said about mortality though.
comparing mental disabled people to children is insulting. comparing them to animals is fucking gross.
I did not compare them, they just have the trait you claimed was the justification for killing animals. Humans are animals and a subset of us have the trait you described. I just pointed out that is not a good justification.
Yeah, it’s such a prevalent attitude but I agree it doesn’t hold water.
I suspect being unaware of the amount of unnecessary suffering in meat production probably plays a role too.
Solution: Get some really, really depressed chickens