If an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind, one person denying over 80% of insurance claims is a whole lot of eyes, which is a crazy ratio. I don’t think your analogy works.
Nation wide, 305 million Americans have health insurance. Over 80% were being denied because of a faulty system these companies refused to fix. That is 244,000,000 people. Two hundred and forty four million people being rejected.
United has 51 million people it “”““covers””“”, being generous and saying it was only 80% who were getting denied from this system means that’s still 40 million 800 thousand people.
All your what ifs already happened because of 2016 btw.
If I had my way him and his ilk would be facing life in prison.
BTW, United had a denial rate of 32%, double the national average. Idk where tf you got 80%.
The man didn’t gun people down in the street, he refused to pay for their treatment and his victims didn’t know how to fight it. Less than a fifth of a single percent of denied claims are appealed by the people whose claims are denied, they literally don’t even realize a system exists to fight against the injustice.
But now we’re moving on to violence in the streets? Well for your sake, I hope your side wins despite the massive sacrifices.
His systemic violence is far more dangerous than street justice. Stop being a libcuck. If someone wants to hurt you, or your community, or your entire planet, there is nothing unjust about stopping him in anyway necessary and this was certainly necessary.
“His systemic violence” is going to keep happening because nobody is doing a fucking thing about it, the killing in the street included. The only real solution is to change laws and pass sweeping reforms of the system, which demonstrably people are reluctant to do.
The only real solution is to change laws and pass sweeping reforms of the system,
Right. So what’s your plan for doing this then?
…
Oh, right, you can’t do it because $200 Billion are leveraged against you being able to do this.
Violence is the authority from which all other authority is derived. We respect laws and governments because we have ceded them the right of violence to maintain and enforce those laws. Governments and corporations do not respect us because governments (and by America’s extension, corporations) hold the monopoly on violence.
Therefore, the credible threat of violence is required for a fair and equal negotiation. We don’t need to go in and gun down every C-level executive in the country, the same way the cops don’t need to arrest every single person in the country to impress upon the rest of us what they are capable of. The opponent merely needs to think that you might do it in order to fear and respect the prospect appropriately.
This assassination hasn’t solved any problems directly, not in the least, but what it has done is hand us a bargaining chip that is now ours to squander. We have proven that we, citizens as a block, are capable and perhaps willing to exercise the authority of violence, and the corpostate no longer holds the monopoly. This has the corpostate immediately scared, and puts us in a position to negotiate to prevent more of these, or even for someone else to wield us in their own negotiations (think some politician in a back rooms talk with insurance reps, “look do you want the citizens to keep taking pot shots at you forever or do you want to actually do something about it?”)
We, the people, don’t want violence. It isn’t ours to wield. We gave it up intentionally when we wrote the laws of our lands. But it is the last tool left to us when all others are taken away. The lesson that should be learned here and the real solution we should be looking for is to return to us the other tools we had for negotiation, so that violence isn’t the only remaining way for us to voice ourselves. When corporations were busy union busting and warping tax code and shrinkflating and lobbying down the minimum wage, they forgot that the reason all those things existed was to keep the people happy so they don’t rise up. We already had a corpo hellstate in America once before, and by the end of it, companies gladly instated all these worker benefits after mass general strikes and the third or so time all their corporate offices were firebombed. Skip a few generations and they’ve either forgotten why those policies existed, or they’ve ignored it completely in some show of demented grandeur.
But if I’m being honest I fully expect this opportunity to be thoroughly wasted and for us as a whole to generally learn nothing. It is possible that I will be pleasantly surprised. But I’m not really holding my breath for anything these days.
capitalism can not be reformed. the core value system of it and it’s prevalent iteration of neoliberalism is based solely on exploitation, individualism, differential advantage and monetary profit and is antithetical to life and thriving of life. you can’t fix this system with minor tweaks and reforms
the structural violence the plutocrats participate in and reinforce through myriad means like advertising and economic coercion is exponentially more devastating and deadly than someone venting like with this ceo shooting
edit2: the “real solution” is mutual aid, community building and dual power movements with an emphasis on anarchist ideas. to partially quote Buckminster fuller To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. but unfortunately sometimes the only language these monsters understand is violence, which is ironically what their colonial projects always claim about the oppressed
There is no reality in which tearing down the US system of government via violence and forceful action results in a better system than what currently exists. There is no precedent for such a situation. There is no way foreign adversaries wouldn’t leap at the chance to take control during the conflict. There is no way native adversaries wouldn’t leap at the chance to take control during the conflict.
If that’s your plan, a civil war that creates anarchy, then you might as well just hand the keys to the kingdom over to the richest americans because they absolutely would come out on top in that hypothetical.
What you’re really asking for is just for Americans to kill each other off only to make things worse, to make the entire world worse.
We are in anarchy at best under fascism. The rule of law is gonna breathe its last breath in January, so we better set up ways to exist without the protection of the state.
The strategy isn’t to kill every rich person, but see that they undermine their popular support. Let the Democrats have no popular support. Let the rich desperately kiss the ring of the crazy old tyrant.
We aren’t gonna need to kill Trump, just wait for him to die. He’s done a fantastic job of ensuring that no one else stands out around him because he doesn’t care about legacy. Even if he tries now, there’s nobody who can take his place. The MAGA movement will fracture without him. It’s what he’s made sure of. We need to give the rich nothing to grab onto except him.
No more spineless Democrats. If they don’t help us, let them flounder. I have no faith in the Gavin Newsoms of the world. We aren’t gonna get far catering to him. We need build up independently, using an anarchist strategy of mutual aid outside of the corrupt system. We won’t even need it for gaining political power, but to survive.
I’m not gonna do anything to hurt the rich personally, but I’m not about to stop anybody from doing that. Opposing violence hasn’t gotten progressives much electoral political power recently. They still get branded as violent rioters as the police state expands. Their efforts then get watered down and turned into controlled opposition, despite them being the only people working to save liberal democracy.
The biggest thing we need is to build up our support systems for everyone, NGO style. Provide people healthcare, food, and other necessities. Electoral politics should be ignored until we get closer to the midterms. By then we’ll know better what can and can’t be done.
“capitalism can not be reformed. the core value system of it and it’s prevalent iteration of neoliberalism is based solely on exploitation, individualism, differential advantage and monetary profit and is antithetical to life and thriving of life. you can’t fix this system with minor tweaks and reforms”
You’re in a discussion about Anon fucking ganking some guy, arguing against my statement that the anon is neither political nor anything resembling a solution. Your argument is that the System cannot be fixed through means other than violence. I then explained why you’re a fucking idiot.
I’m think the reactions to the killing of the CEO highlights how people feel they have no control in changing the healthcare system. The recent events is seen as some form of justice, and a feeling that someone is standing up for the little man.
While I think most people don’t usually like to celebrate murder, it does put the things in to perspective, and highlights the unjust system, because you can compare the act of the murder and the acts of insurance companies. You need to understand the context of these reactions and not just say people are “bad” for thinking it’s somewhat fair.
Politicians should take these reactions as a sign that things need to change. Hopefully this will be a catalyst, so something good comes out of it. Otherwise I think resentment will keep brewing and might cause more violence.
Edit: just wanted to add that the recent events has given people hope that things can change, which I think is the only positive side of this.
Well I hate to break it to you, but people were very much aware of the injustices and failures of the healthcare system. So you basically agree that nothing will change because of this, but more violence could come instead.
Yes, people were aware but feel they have no way to change it. Be it lying politicians, or the general problems of a two-party system.
The killing of the CEO made people feel it is possible to fight back at the system. Futile or not, at least “something”
This is what happens if citizens feel disenfranchised, which is the key here. This will scare some powerful people which it should. This is what you get in an unjust system.
I agree that that things will most likely not change, at least if we don’t take the opportunity to discuss why this happened and why people “cheer” on the killer.
Nothing has changed, tho. United Healthcare still insures millions, will still deny claims with an automated approach. Millions still don’t know how to request information about denied claims, such as who denied them and where they are licensed to practice, or how to appeal.
yes because those parasitic companies need to be expropriated without compensation and healthcare put under democratic control of the real stakeholders: frontilne medical workers and patients
If an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind, one person denying over 80% of insurance claims is a whole lot of eyes, which is a crazy ratio. I don’t think your analogy works.
Nation wide, 305 million Americans have health insurance. Over 80% were being denied because of a faulty system these companies refused to fix. That is 244,000,000 people. Two hundred and forty four million people being rejected.
United has 51 million people it “”““covers””“”, being generous and saying it was only 80% who were getting denied from this system means that’s still 40 million 800 thousand people.
All your what ifs already happened because of 2016 btw.
If I had my way him and his ilk would be facing life in prison.
BTW, United had a denial rate of 32%, double the national average. Idk where tf you got 80%.
The man didn’t gun people down in the street, he refused to pay for their treatment and his victims didn’t know how to fight it. Less than a fifth of a single percent of denied claims are appealed by the people whose claims are denied, they literally don’t even realize a system exists to fight against the injustice.
But now we’re moving on to violence in the streets? Well for your sake, I hope your side wins despite the massive sacrifices.
His systemic violence is far more dangerous than street justice. Stop being a libcuck. If someone wants to hurt you, or your community, or your entire planet, there is nothing unjust about stopping him in anyway necessary and this was certainly necessary.
“His systemic violence” is going to keep happening because nobody is doing a fucking thing about it, the killing in the street included. The only real solution is to change laws and pass sweeping reforms of the system, which demonstrably people are reluctant to do.
Right. So what’s your plan for doing this then?
…
Oh, right, you can’t do it because $200 Billion are leveraged against you being able to do this.
Violence is the authority from which all other authority is derived. We respect laws and governments because we have ceded them the right of violence to maintain and enforce those laws. Governments and corporations do not respect us because governments (and by America’s extension, corporations) hold the monopoly on violence.
Therefore, the credible threat of violence is required for a fair and equal negotiation. We don’t need to go in and gun down every C-level executive in the country, the same way the cops don’t need to arrest every single person in the country to impress upon the rest of us what they are capable of. The opponent merely needs to think that you might do it in order to fear and respect the prospect appropriately.
This assassination hasn’t solved any problems directly, not in the least, but what it has done is hand us a bargaining chip that is now ours to squander. We have proven that we, citizens as a block, are capable and perhaps willing to exercise the authority of violence, and the corpostate no longer holds the monopoly. This has the corpostate immediately scared, and puts us in a position to negotiate to prevent more of these, or even for someone else to wield us in their own negotiations (think some politician in a back rooms talk with insurance reps, “look do you want the citizens to keep taking pot shots at you forever or do you want to actually do something about it?”)
We, the people, don’t want violence. It isn’t ours to wield. We gave it up intentionally when we wrote the laws of our lands. But it is the last tool left to us when all others are taken away. The lesson that should be learned here and the real solution we should be looking for is to return to us the other tools we had for negotiation, so that violence isn’t the only remaining way for us to voice ourselves. When corporations were busy union busting and warping tax code and shrinkflating and lobbying down the minimum wage, they forgot that the reason all those things existed was to keep the people happy so they don’t rise up. We already had a corpo hellstate in America once before, and by the end of it, companies gladly instated all these worker benefits after mass general strikes and the third or so time all their corporate offices were firebombed. Skip a few generations and they’ve either forgotten why those policies existed, or they’ve ignored it completely in some show of demented grandeur.
But if I’m being honest I fully expect this opportunity to be thoroughly wasted and for us as a whole to generally learn nothing. It is possible that I will be pleasantly surprised. But I’m not really holding my breath for anything these days.
Vote against privatized healthcare, you stupid assholes. Vote against the GOP. Vote Dem.
and how’s that working for you? and everybody else?
Everybody else voted for the asshole, so now they get to deal with the asshole and I’m continuing to try to educate people on asshole anatomy.
capitalism can not be reformed. the core value system of it and it’s prevalent iteration of neoliberalism is based solely on exploitation, individualism, differential advantage and monetary profit and is antithetical to life and thriving of life. you can’t fix this system with minor tweaks and reforms
the structural violence the plutocrats participate in and reinforce through myriad means like advertising and economic coercion is exponentially more devastating and deadly than someone venting like with this ceo shooting
edit2: the “real solution” is mutual aid, community building and dual power movements with an emphasis on anarchist ideas. to partially quote Buckminster fuller To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. but unfortunately sometimes the only language these monsters understand is violence, which is ironically what their colonial projects always claim about the oppressed
There is no reality in which tearing down the US system of government via violence and forceful action results in a better system than what currently exists. There is no precedent for such a situation. There is no way foreign adversaries wouldn’t leap at the chance to take control during the conflict. There is no way native adversaries wouldn’t leap at the chance to take control during the conflict.
If that’s your plan, a civil war that creates anarchy, then you might as well just hand the keys to the kingdom over to the richest americans because they absolutely would come out on top in that hypothetical.
What you’re really asking for is just for Americans to kill each other off only to make things worse, to make the entire world worse.
We are in anarchy at best under fascism. The rule of law is gonna breathe its last breath in January, so we better set up ways to exist without the protection of the state.
The strategy isn’t to kill every rich person, but see that they undermine their popular support. Let the Democrats have no popular support. Let the rich desperately kiss the ring of the crazy old tyrant.
We aren’t gonna need to kill Trump, just wait for him to die. He’s done a fantastic job of ensuring that no one else stands out around him because he doesn’t care about legacy. Even if he tries now, there’s nobody who can take his place. The MAGA movement will fracture without him. It’s what he’s made sure of. We need to give the rich nothing to grab onto except him.
No more spineless Democrats. If they don’t help us, let them flounder. I have no faith in the Gavin Newsoms of the world. We aren’t gonna get far catering to him. We need build up independently, using an anarchist strategy of mutual aid outside of the corrupt system. We won’t even need it for gaining political power, but to survive.
I’m not gonna do anything to hurt the rich personally, but I’m not about to stop anybody from doing that. Opposing violence hasn’t gotten progressives much electoral political power recently. They still get branded as violent rioters as the police state expands. Their efforts then get watered down and turned into controlled opposition, despite them being the only people working to save liberal democracy.
The biggest thing we need is to build up our support systems for everyone, NGO style. Provide people healthcare, food, and other necessities. Electoral politics should be ignored until we get closer to the midterms. By then we’ll know better what can and can’t be done.
lol what the fuck are you talking about
You’re in a discussion about Anon fucking ganking some guy, arguing against my statement that the anon is neither political nor anything resembling a solution. Your argument is that the System cannot be fixed through means other than violence. I then explained why you’re a fucking idiot.
I’m think the reactions to the killing of the CEO highlights how people feel they have no control in changing the healthcare system. The recent events is seen as some form of justice, and a feeling that someone is standing up for the little man.
While I think most people don’t usually like to celebrate murder, it does put the things in to perspective, and highlights the unjust system, because you can compare the act of the murder and the acts of insurance companies. You need to understand the context of these reactions and not just say people are “bad” for thinking it’s somewhat fair.
Politicians should take these reactions as a sign that things need to change. Hopefully this will be a catalyst, so something good comes out of it. Otherwise I think resentment will keep brewing and might cause more violence.
Edit: just wanted to add that the recent events has given people hope that things can change, which I think is the only positive side of this.
Well I hate to break it to you, but people were very much aware of the injustices and failures of the healthcare system. So you basically agree that nothing will change because of this, but more violence could come instead.
Yes, people were aware but feel they have no way to change it. Be it lying politicians, or the general problems of a two-party system.
The killing of the CEO made people feel it is possible to fight back at the system. Futile or not, at least “something”
This is what happens if citizens feel disenfranchised, which is the key here. This will scare some powerful people which it should. This is what you get in an unjust system.
I agree that that things will most likely not change, at least if we don’t take the opportunity to discuss why this happened and why people “cheer” on the killer.
The killing in the street included, except for the fact that they changed their decision.
Will it be implemented again later? Probably. But this event caused change now.
Nothing has changed, tho. United Healthcare still insures millions, will still deny claims with an automated approach. Millions still don’t know how to request information about denied claims, such as who denied them and where they are licensed to practice, or how to appeal.
yes because those parasitic companies need to be expropriated without compensation and healthcare put under democratic control of the real stakeholders: frontilne medical workers and patients
jfc these tankies