They are the one wearing a band T-shirt, advertising that they are fan. They opened themselves up to a conversation about it, and bringing up the person’s relationship experience is 100% irrelevant.
Asking someone to name 5 women who trust them, and then challenging those choices as wrong, when the subject and the people they are naming are totally unknown, isn’t winning the argument.
This is why women get accused of being unfair debaters.
This is why women get accused of being unfair debaters.
You don’t have to be “fair” when some rando starts debating you out of nowhere, same way you don’t have to do a proper duel when someone asks
They opened themselves up to a conversation about it,
If the question to “name 5 songs” is an attempt at opening up a conversation, it’s a questionable strategy. You’re not making conversation, you’re assigning someone a test. Forcing a set list provides plenty of opportunity for the answers to be scrutinized and possibly used as justification to doubt the woman’s authenticity. It’s a commonly used gate-keeping tactic that most, if not all women and AFAB have/had used against them at some point.
A friendly acknowledgement of a shared interest would work far better, like going, “Oh, I love that band! Did you go to their last concert?” Even, “What’s your favorite song?” works, because the problem isn’t asking a question, but the immediate assignment of work along with guaranteed judgement regardless of the answer.
Most people probably don’t enjoy being subjected to pop quizzes, and this kind of question feels like being given a pop quiz with the sole reward for winning being “to be accepted by you.” Even if one’s intent is truly innocent, when someone’s idea of “conversation” is “subject the other person to random tests,” other people might avoid interacting with that person.
I have never heard of women being stereotyped as unfair debaters.
So? I have.
Your personal anecdote doesn’t mean that it’s common.
I feel like when it comes to cultural things like bands the wearer should be at least aware and supporting of the band. Imagine if I wore a MAGA cap, because I thought it looked cool but didn’t know anything about it.
MAGA is recent and morally negative, AC/DC is old and morally neutral.
I can not imagine caring about someone not knowing the Alice in Chains on their shirt as much as the nazi on their hat.
Totally agree. I recently saw a guy with a shirt that said “Don’t wear T-shirts of bands you don’t listen to.”
So she asked for it?
Arguably by wearing something they don’t understand. Yes
Would you be ok with them wearing the southern flag cause it looks good?
And there we have it. She was asking for it
Stop asking loaded questions if you don’t wanna discuss the implication of what you’re saying.
All the best
Nice to get affirmation of my point by complete nonchalance.
A conversation and challenging someone are two different things. They didn’t open up a conversation, they challenged the person with the T-shirts interest. They deserve to be challenged back, especially in a way that calls attention to the fact that they are abbrasive, intolerable, or worse.
My opening question is always: “Have you listened to that album?” You can take that as a challenge, or as an opening to a conversation. I suppose the tone used while asking is the most factor. I always ask it in a friendly manner.
Have you listened to yourself speak? The time, effort, and cost of listening to an album are nowhere near the time, effort, and cost of choosing and purchasing a shirt. Unless the album came out 3 days ago and isn’t easily available online yet that question sounds … unpleasant.
What? You wear shirt with stuff on it that you don’t want to talk about? That’s weird
A “no, I just like the art” is a valid response. But fighting strawman that probably are very rare irl and being mean to people who just want to talk isn’t
Some people just don’t want to have a stranger come up and initiate a conversation with them out of the blue, even if it might be about a shared interest
Funny how I never have an issue of women being “unfair” to me yet you constantly do. I wonder what the difference between us is?
Reading comprehension is required.
I didn’t say I have an issue with women being unfair to me. I said they often get accused of debating unfairly, and they do. Listen to a few stand-up comedians, and you’ll hear plenty of jokes about how difficult it is to argue with women. Chris Rock has a famous monologue about women being impossible to argue with because they don’t feel that their arguments have to make sense.
Don’t blame me personally for a widely held societal belief.
Reading comprehension is required.
You’re the one who thinks “name five of their songs” is “starting a conversation”.
Again, I’ve never said that, and would consider that a poor challenge. I’ve listened to DSOTM probably hundreds of times, but I’m not sure I could name 5 songs from it off the top of my head (Money, Time, Breathe, Great Gig in the Sky, um…). That’s why I would never ask that question. I ask: “Have you ever listened to that album?” If they had, follow up questions would be what did you think of it, what do you like/dislike about it? Have you heard other PF albums? What made you listen to this one? What do you like about the band? Have you ever seen them live? Etc.
I asked a girl about her Metallica shirt once, and she responded by saying that she LOVED Metallica, and knew every album well. I asked why, and she said her dad loved them, and always played them in the car. I’m not a Metallica fan, but I loved her enthusiasm and story. That was a great conversation, and what I am aiming for when I ask about someone’s T-shirt.
People gotta stop being so defensive. Even when someone asks a question in a confrontational manner, I prefer to answer it in a positive manner, and try to turn the conversation around into a constructive experience.
So maybe try reading the original post. This is not about someone asking “Hi, have you heard the album?”
You’re making up a strawman to be upset about.
Yea, I was unsure if I was being too hard on you based on one comment, but your double-down absolutely proved me correct.
You have some prejudiced views about women that you need to work out.
Chris Rock and other comedians’ jokes are not peer-reviewed studies or discourse analyses about how women debate intellectually.
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Probably so, but it’s too late for me, and overall I like women a lot. I actually prefer women bosses, generally.
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Lol. Wait. Your argument is “women are bad at debating” and the source you cite for that is stand-up comedians?
Oh, I’ve gotta turn on the popcorn maker for this.
Comics/ Satirists have always been a mirror of society - Swift, Voltaire, Will Rogers, Mark Twain, George Carlin, etc. They are the people who say out loud what everyone else is thinking.
Simply dismissing an argument as silly without explaining why is another poor debate technique.
Just for fun: was John Kramer saying out loud what everyone else was thinking when he shouted the n-word 40 times?
Something one or multiple people merely think does not reveal any underlying truths. To try to find evidence, one might start from an observation and test a hypothesis. Comedians and pop culture as a whole might mirror society’s ideological mores in some ways, but that alone isn’t sufficient evidence that women are disproportionately intellectually dishonest or inferior.
I never said “women are disproportionately intellectually dishonest or inferior,” YOU put those words in my mouth. I don’t feel that way, and would never endorse anything about that statement.
But it is no secret to any man who has had long-term relationships with women, that they often argue without rules of any kind, and I simply pointed out that it’s not just me making that obvious observation, but it is an entire sub-genre of comedy. Obviously, it is a shared societal experience, and my personal observation has been that it isn’t associated with any particular culture.
As I’ve gotten older, and don’t argue much because I literally don’t care enough about anything to argue about it, I have realized that the strategy of simultaneously combining strawmen, shifting goal posts, misunderstood polls, internet propaganda, click bait headlines, etc., is designed to make me so frustrated and flustered that I pop my cork, and she wins by default.
that it isn’t associated with any particular culture.
Ohh, so women are genetically illogical. I understand.
So, do you see a way out of this trap, or is humanity cursed to suffer them forever?
Debate? What debate? I thought this was just a hypothetical situtation casually talking about bands, which turns into something condescending. That’s not really a debate situation. Why must we treat it as a Socratic dialogue or a legal proceeding?
But that nonsequitur sure is a sweeping generalization about how you feel about about women debaters. Ironic considering you stated you don’t like sweeping generalizations, real or imagined, in your other comment.
Well, the discussion did move into whether the response to the guy’s question was a fair one.
The better response would have been, “I don’t know, I don’t think of them in terms of songs, I think of their albums. Of all of their albums, this is the one I like the best. It’s got “XXX,” it’s my favorite song by them.”
That’s an answer that would make him sound like the dickhead that he is, instead of making you sound like a savagely defensive female.
Of course, it only works if you do know the album on your shirt, and you do know one song off of it. Otherwise, I’m kind of in the “don’t wear T-shirts of bands you don’t listen to” camp. It’s on your chest for the entire world to see and JUDGE YOU FOR IT, at least pull it up on Spotify and give it a spin.
Give it a rest. You’re not a woman and you’re failing to see the likely negative scenario this kind of question would arise in, so there’s no need to explain what a better response would be.
If you’ve opened a conversation through a band shirt and you weren’t an asshole, good for you. Then the post isn’t about you and there really isn’t a reason to be so defensive.
Turns out, if you’re not an asshole then you’ll likely not be treated like one. And if you still are, it’s okay — it’s likely not personal. Still no reason to get super defensive and cry that it’s “not all men” and that “all women are taught not to trust any man.”
Btw, “savagely defensive female” comes across terribly.
Valid, except I chose the words “savagely defensive female” carefully, and posted them fully understanding the impact those words would have. But I felt it was important to demonstrate how that response would be viewed by nearly every man. I fully understand how cautious women have to be around men, but it is important for women to understand how responses like this would be viewed.
There is so much division in America (and the World), I wish men and women could at least try to get along better, but it only seems to be getting worse, because EVERYONE is on the defensive when dealing with the opposite sex. Look, we all want the same thing: to get laid. It’s literally what life is all about. Can’t we try to be cool about it, on both sides?
but it is important for women to understand how responses like this would be viewed.
That she’s cool and capable of standing up for herself? I’d much rather hang out with her than the dickhead that asked her the question.
You don’t get it.
I once knew a girl who shaved her head bald. Her default response to “Does the carpet match the drapes?” was “That depends, is my head bleeding?”
People who wear band shirts, does this actually happen?
Hey mostly men on Lemmy, does this even happen? No? Checkmate, women.
I wasn’t asking a particular gender. I was asking people in general. I don’t wear band shirts so I was curious what those who did had experienced. I’ve never witnessed it even when I was younger and band shirts were practically the dress code. The original screenshot isn’t even gendered so I’m not sure where this hostility is coming from.
The screenshot is gendered and was posted in the witchesvspatriarchy community.
I had a person in the grocery store run up to me and recite the first half of a verse to me hoping I’d respond. I said something like “what?” as they pointed to my shirt and repeated themself. I then appropriately finished the verse and smiled.
You and I are very different people. I don’t care if I had the bands entire discography memorized, there is no way I’m rewarding that behavior.
I had a person come up to me at pride yesterday and blurt out something about my wardrobe. It was kind of awkward and my first response was to be defensive because I’ve received a lot of abuse in my life, but I remembered where I was and it enabled me to see that probably, this person did not mean me harm and just wanted to interact. We did and I made a new neurodivergent friend. Maybe we can both lighten the fuck up.
Maybe we can both lighten the fuck up.
Certainly couldn’t hurt… This did remind me of the time some random dude in the shampoo isle at target started a conversation with me about my watch. It’s not a particularly nice watch or anything but he had just bought one himself and was excited to talk to someone about it. It kind of weirded me out at first but it wasn’t a bad experience overall.
“name five of their songs” questions person A’s (the one wearing the band t-shirt) knowledge of the band.
“name five women who trust you” questions person B’s (the one who asked the 1st question) relationships with women in their life.
therefore “name five women who trust you” is much more loaded than “name five of their songs”, making it a response that is, perhaps, too rude and unnecessary. although, assuming person B asked person A to name the songs unprompted (this is probably what usually happens), this could be an appropriate counter-question as sometimes a ruder response is necessary when dealing with annoying people.
People who have only just met me typically ask if I have kids (even though they rarely ask my husband the same question). And when I say that I don’t, 80% of those people think that “Why not?” is an appropriate follow-up. And about half of them will go on about how having kids is great and I should really do it and that someday I’ll change my mind.
Now, I made a choice not to have kids. It’s not a difficult subject for me, even though it’s annoying to have strangers insinuate that I don’t know myself well enough to make that decision. But I have several loved ones who have suffered miscarriages and fertility issues, and I know that they feel really uncomfortable answering that question.
So right around the time I turned 35, my standard response became, " You know, when a woman gets to be a certain age and she doesn’t have kids, there’s usually a reason, and she usually doesn’t want to discuss it with strangers."
That usually stops those people in their tracks. And I hope it has stopped at least one of them from asking a really invasive question to a person who’s overly sensitive about the fact that they can’t have kids.
All that to say that humoring someone and naming the five songs (or saying that you can’t) out of politeness just reiterates that they were correct to act as a gatekeeper. Pointing out how rude the question is might actually change their behavior in the future.
To be fair, you actually don’t know if you’d be happier with kids since you don’t, you know, have any kids.
I have nieces, nephews, and students whom I love fiercely, but I also love that I get to give them back to their parents at the end of the day.
I do not regret my choice in the least. I live a comfortable life and I can afford to do a lot of things that my friends and coworkers who have kids can’t afford to do, either financially or emotionally. I would not be experiencing the adventure I’m currently on (living as an expat) if I had to provide a stable home environment for my own child(ren).
I’m not saying you should regret your choice, just that you will never know how youll feel about having your own kids (which is very different than nieces or nephews) until you actually have them.
Ive found your take on lemmy more common though, not sure if its the individualist bias here or something else.
And now imagine you do have kids and actually know that you were happier before …
Thats a bummer. You should get out of there, kids can tell when a parent doesnt want them.
Don’t worry, this was just hypothetical. I actually love my kids.
Its always fucking unprompted
I had it happen once with Eluveitie. Fuck me for not remembering song names in ancient Gaulish I guess.
Nice notion, but won’t work.
Those people will happily list every women they know, however distant.
Many men don’t even have a concept for this kind of “trust”.Who gives you the right to challenge if someone is truly “trusted” or not? You don’t know the person or the people they are citing, so you are just convicting men without any evidence at all.
Not OP, but men tell us themselves. They tell us when we’re in a relationship and they say that no one else ever understood them like we do. They tell us when we see them talk about their loneliness across the internet. To deny it is to deny the pain that so many men admit for themselves, albeit only when in private or anonymous spaces.
A lot of men don’t have this deep trust in their lives, and I say this not out of malice but out of sympathy and concern. You deserve to know the kind of trust referenced here.
My job includes doing a lot of events on college campuses, so I see a lot of t-shirts for classic rock bands. I see a Dark Side of the Moon shirt at nearly every event. I’m a huge lifelong musician and music lover, so I often ask if they’ve listened to that album. If they have, we have a nice discussion about Pink Floyd. If not, I encourage them to give it a listen, because it is an album that has literally changed people’s lives.
One girl told me she hadn’t heard it, but her GRANDMOTHER told her it was the greatest album ever made. First of all: Grandmother? That hurt. Secondly, I told her grandma may be right, go listen to that album.
Recently, someone was wearing an Abby Road shirt, so I asked. They turned out to be a huge Beatles fan, and we had a nice conversation about it.
OTOH, one girl had on a Kiss shirt, so I asked her, and she didn’t even know that Kiss was a band. She just liked the shirt.
Not everyone asking is looking to start an argument. Often we are just older music fans who are thrilled to see young people embracing the great rock music of the classic era, and want to talk to them about it. Engage those older music lovers, they may be able to tell you about other albums or artists you might like, or tell cool stories about shows they’ve been to. In my case, I worked for many years on the record biz, and have lots of stories of personal meetings and backstage experiences with truly legendary musicians. Young music lovers enjoy my stories, but if you responded with “name 5 women who trust you,” I’d just write you off as a defensive, confrontational jerk, and ignore you. No fun stories for you.
The difference is you’re asking a legitimate question, while the original post is a test.
This is lovely and wholesome, but you’re not the type of person the post is about.
Edit: sorry I just realised my comment was kinda glib, so let me elaborate. You didn’t specify but I assumed you approached those women with a friendly air, having a genuine desire to have a conversation with them as equals, and said something like “oh I love that album, have you listened to it?” Putting yourself in their shoes, compare that to a guy who approaches them aggressively, having a deep seated resentment for all women, and lashes out with “pretending you like that band huh? Prove it then, name 5 of their songs!”
Thank you for a common sense response to my post. The problem is that ALL standard-issue white boomer men like me have become the enemy, and we all take the blame for assholes who would behave poorly no matter what their sex, age, race, etc.
I have become somewhat activist about sweeping generalizations about people. It isn’t right when MAGA Nazis disparage undocumented immigrants as a whole, and it isn’t right when young people or women, etc. disparage older white men as a whole. Most of us are decent reasonable people, it’s just that the jerks are far louder, so they get the attention.
“Boomer” isnt restricted to age. Its a mindset.
Consider finding another word for “Boomer mindset” or just use the full phrase if you wish to be widely understood.
Ok boomer.
This was disappointing to read. This post was talking about a specific type of person that was not you, it was not about “how all older white men are the enemy,” and you took it personally. When someone gently told you that you weren’t being targeted, you doubled down and got even more defensive.
I’m sorry, but no one was making sweeping generalizations. We’re talking about a very specific situation that was never stated to be all men.
I don’t understand how your feelings are hurt by a post that had nothing at all to do with you. Judging from your comment, you were never one of the bad ones this post was calling out. It’ll be okay. And there may be other situations where it makes sense to talk about blanket distrust of men that might make life harder for genuinely good guys, though it’s not relevant in this post specifically.
But do you understand how offensive it comes off to equate MAGA Nazis on the same level as mens’ feelings being hurt? The rule of law is being ignored, people are being disappeared, we’re moving closer to Gilead, and the Lemkin Institute issued a genocide warning regarding MAGA blood libel and trans people. How are hurt feelings in any way comparable?
I wish we could have one post in a woman-centric community sharing difficult situations without one of the good men lashing out because they felt personally attacked.
As a standard-issue white boomer man we should be mad at the assholes for being assholes and not the people who want to avoid the assholes.
Those assholes make us look bad, and there’s not really anything we can do but speak up if and when we see it.
Funnily enough, in your eagerness to rewrite the post to fit your own assumptions, you ignored the premise of the comments and the actual issue, proving the point entirely.
Then you doubled down, just quality all around 💯👌
honestly Ive listened to DSOTM, and while I like the songs, it doesnt feel life changing to me
The Wall however…
The Wall is my favorite album of all time, but DSOTM is still special. I only remember seeing two album covers for the first time - Sgt Pepper, and DSOTM.
Back in the 70s and 80s, I worked in record stores, and DSOTM sold multiple times, every single day, even though it had been out for years, and they had three subsequent albums. I knew people who played it every day, and had to buy a new copy every year. I knew plenty of people who came to love music and record collecting after they first heard DSOTM, and it became their favorite album. It changed lots of lives.
Obscured by Clouds
Atom Heart Mother
Not bad, but not their very best. The Big 4: DSOTM, WYWH, Animals, The Wall are the peak with Meddle and The Final Cut as Honorable Mentions.
Then we must agree to disagree.
WYWH, yeah sure, on my top 5 list. And meddle, sure. And ummagumma and zabriski point.
But ya, those others, not so much.
That said.
Who do you like that’s modern with a similar vibe? Some of M83, BOC for me maybe
Coincidentally, I just listened to something vaguely floydy today. Tangerine Dream’s first album. Electronic Meditations.
I think the German saying „Der Ton macht die Musik.“ fits very well here. There is a massive difference between you bringing it up as an conversation starter and an incel jerk using it as a challenge.
First, name 5 men who trust you.
This sounds like a US thing.
People just don’t go to other people saying some random shit where I’m from. Unless they’re crazy, beggars, or tourists from the US. If you come to anorher person and don’t start your sentence with “excuse me” or “sorry”, you’re getting ignored.
That’s because it’s a straw-man. Unless someone has serious social deficiencies, this doesn’t happen. The experience is 99% ignore, 0.9% might get “like your shirt”, or “cool band”, 0.1% some weirdo - who would have found something else anyway if it wasn’t your shirt.
It’s a type of negging. I can guarantee you women wearing band shirts riding a subway, at a bar, etc, have been asked this kind of question with negative ulterior motives.
It doesn’t happen in the US either. These posts are made up social media rage bait.
Both people in this made up conversation sounds like douches.
I’ve seen it happen when I was in high school. It was usually a call out between friends and 90% of the time it was a led zeppelin shirt. Never seen it between two strangers on the street though
It’s not common but I have had this weird interaction once:
Stop at random convenience store for a drink, take drink to counter, cashier looks up, sees my Dave Matthews Band shirt, and while doing the transaction for my drink says:
“I know that band! I hate that band! Take your shit and get out!”
It was confusing as hell. Who the fuck hates the Dave Matthews Band? 🤷🏻♂️
I live in fear of this type of person, especially as someone who listens to metal which tends to be male-dominated. I’m an album person and I’m not always checking the table of contents when I listen. There are bands I’ve been a fan of for over a decade that I don’t have five songs memorized for. I love these bands and I don’t think I’m fake for liking them or wearing a shirt.
Is that comeback considered “good”? Why? It doesn’t even make any sense.
Because the kind of guy that asks random people to prove their fandom probably does not have many close friends.
Even more so the point is that they’re a creep.
Men policing women’s clothing is creepy, or talking down to other people as gatekeepers … also creepy.
The response is pointing out they’re a creep.
I hope my fellow men can understand.
The sort of men who come out with phrases like that are (almost universally) arseholes. Having a default response, that can be rolled out quickly, and hit at emotional sore spots is useful.
As for why it works, if they are willing to come out with that line, then either a massively misogynistic, or badly socially stunted and rude. Both will drive women away aggressively (and likely a lot of male friends).
How often does that line happen? I can definitely see “What’s your favorite song/album?”, that’s just making conversation based on a common interest. And it can be kinda disappointing if you thought you were gonna get to talk about a band you like, but the person just liked the design and hasn’t even heard them.
But “Name 5 songs”? I thought that just happened in memes.
It does only primarily happen in memes. I’m 50, lived a very unsheltered life and never once heard someone ask something so stupid in the flesh.
Not to discount your personal experience, just offering a different one, but people pretty regularly used to gatekeep in this way to me, I’ve been asked the “name 5 songs” question or some variant of it at least a dozen times when I was in school, it slowed significantly down in college and adulthood though.
I will note however that prior to my transition I read these things as “male social purity tests” and post transition I read them as “teenage boys need to be right so bad they’ll attack anyone for anything” and I think a lot of this comes from our society ignoring the emotional needs for validation among young men and boys, causing them to lash out in this at potential friends who they see as a target for humiliation, instead of bringing these people closer.
Are you a woman? It might also be something that developed during very young gen X/millennial generation, because it was at that point I believe the band shirt trend escaped the “die hard fan” category into just general audience category. Maybe it’s location based, or appearance based. If you don’t “look the part” whatever that means to the person, you’re a suspected “poser.”
I’m younger than you and am a woman and can confirm this has happened to me on multiple occasions. I had an ex that liked band merch and I often wore their clothes out when I stayed over and just kinda kept them because they looked cool. I was generally happy to say I didn’t know the band, but it happened enough times that I started telling people I got the merch off a corpse. It was generally a left field enough response that they didn’t try to continue speaking to me. I can’t remember the number of times it happened but it was enough to prompt me to change my response from “it’s my boyfriends” to something to make the conversation stop.
It’s a bit of a weaponised meme. A small number of guys will use it as either a put down, or a really bad attempt at a negging pickup line. Unfortunately, they are the sort to do it to a depressing number of women, without thinking that maybe they are the arsehole, not the women turning him down.
It’s also quite dependent on the demographic. E.g. It’s far more likely to come up at music festivals etc.
What do you think the memes were based on? Gatekeeping is a real thing, and the “name 5 songs” is a genuine thing they’d to to “test” people as “real” fans.
Him asking her to name 5 songs is nasty, it shows he’s a bully whose looking to embarrass her. That indicates women are less likely to trust him
Still, you can expect a comeback to not be a complete offtop.
Yes, the first phrase has a goal of embarrassing the owner of the t-shirt, but comeback in the style of “yo momma is so fat that…” is embarrassing to the giver, not to the receiver.
Even “Can YOU name 5 songs?” would be much-much better.
“Can YOU name 5 songs?” would be much-much better.
Holy shit, no it is not. This is like dousing a grease fire with water.
If someone is coming at you with a “prove you’re a real fan” question, they’ve got friends or they’ve got a video camera. The last thing you want to do is appear desperate.
That’s totally misrepresenting it. And you know that.
What a stupid response to a simple trivia quiz question. All you’re doing is red-flagging yourself by telling him you have trust issues with men.
As a bearded white man who works blue collar with other men, I have trust issues with men.
Nobody wants to answer these snobbish fan checks. Anybody asking these kinds of questions is red-flagging themselves for a shit personality.
As a woman who exists, I have trust issues with men.
As a married, straight, white man who has nieces and just in general knows some women, I have trust issues with men.
I could name 5x that. I don’t wear band shirts nor that level of pettyness and distrust tho
The comments on this post are examples why there are so few women on Lemmy lol.
Yep
I’m so disappointed by these comments. It is a very specific situation, why do they all take this so personally and think it is an attack against all men?
These comments remind me very much of the bear vs men “debate”
It’s a vicious cycle.
Just checking, if woman asked the exact same question would that be ok? Gatekeeping happens on both sides, not sure how this a male only issue.
Condescension and gatekeeping is never okay. If a woman did this to a man, I would defend the man. So it’s not a double standard.
It’s just that women frequently deal with this when they partake in male-centric hobbies. When this happens, there’s often some element of misogyny at play. So it’s okay for us to point out that specific situation and say it’s frustrating, and doing so doesn’t mean we’re saying this has never happened to men, nor that it’s morally virtuous for women in subcultures to condescend to men.
Also, this culture war thing is so exhausting. Everyone reads between lines and assumes the worst in everyone.
As a man, existing anywhere in public alone with my daughter got me all types of gatekeeping questions and comments. “Giving mommy a break?”, “Must be your day to babysit…”, “Oh is it your weekend?”
I took to telling people that my partner died in childbirth to shut them up. Rude & over the top? Probably, but I shouldn’t have to defend being a parent.
You mean if a woman insinuated you weren’t a real fan by asking you to prove you know more than 5 tracks? Sure, man. That’d be real bad.
Hey, does anyone remember when Morgan Webb was being harassed online for being a fake gamer girl while Adam Sessler wasn’t?
I meant if a woman asked this same woman the exact same question, would it be ok? Or is it a problem ONLY because a man asked the question to a woman? I’ve had men and women both ask me patronzing gatekeeping questions, jackasses are not limited to one sex.
How does that change the equation?
Let’s try this: what do you think I would say.I wasn’t replying to you to challenge your answer, I was just clarifying my original question. I would like to think you would say it would be an issue regardless of the gender of who asked. My original question is scrutinizing the original post’s intention as there are two issues present in the situation presented and at least on the surface they seem to take more of an issue because it was a man who asked. So If a woman asked that same woman the same question would she still respond with “Name 5 woman who trust you?” Just because a man is gatekeeping doesn’t mean he’s doing it only becausae she is a woman, he could just be a jackass who is gatekeeping and assuming he’s doing it only because they are a woman is reverse sexism.
“Reverse sexism.” Okay, so women can never point out hurtful things that might be sexist because it’s sexist against men to point out sexism. No recourse, then? Got it. So, I belive this user is coming at this question in bad faith, as his mind is seemingly made up on what he thinks, so that first question was actually a statement, rather than genuinely asking how we’d respond to the roles being reversed.
If that’s not the case, my mistake. If it is, please go to a different community with this stuff. Your side won the culture war. My side can no longer use our first amendment rights in public peacefully without having the National Guard called. Just leave us in peace in our tiny corners of the internet we have left until my country’s government decides that is also illegal.
Not really, but the issue is about how toxic misogynistic males frequently do this, not the fact that the string of events that have occurred
It’s just way way way way worse for women that’s all.
