There’s link for the study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886922001477
Personality traits, mental abilities and other individual differences: Monozygotic female twins raised apart in South Korea and the United States by Nancy L. Segal and Yoon-Mi Hur
16 points, so about a standard deviation. That’s big, but your own varience can be just as high; the original point of IQ is a measure of how well you’ll do in school to detect who may need additional attention (and not an inherent intelligence) so later aged tests include more on knowledge base while earlier tests are more about things like pattern recognition, mental rotation, etc. Infact, it has to get recurved regularly as each generation tends to be roughly 10 or 15 points higher (although idk about gen Z).
All this is to say that a slump of 16 points doesn’t have to be shit like lead poisoning or gas fumes (although that certainly doesn’t help, and pollution matters), it can simply be the US education system isn’t good at teaching students. Cross culture studies already show that, as do differences between the rich and the poor. Or hell, just playing Tetris raises IQ, lol.
It’d obviously help if this wasn’t a click bait article, though. People wanting to know why need to read a lot of actual research to know the myriad of different things that impact IQ and not just “haha US stupid.”
although idk about gen Z
💀
I technically meant that in regards to not seeing the research lately, but… lol
I thought it was hilarious, can’t lie. But I don’t think gen Z (or alpha, or beta, or whatever gen is the currently self-aware one) are unintelligent, I just think they have shit influence. Parents need to stay extra vigilant in this age.
The article says 7 points is standard in twins. So this is over twice what is normally seen
I have children. The amount of trauma a two year old would experience losing their family, being transported to a foreign country and adopted by different people would be
traumaticintense as hell.A two year old is not a newborn. That’s their entire world blowing up.
Luckily it’s very local, time wise. I don’t remember a thing from like 5 and earlier.
Just because a person doesn’t have a memory of a traumatic event doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect them. Kids can have lasting trauma effects even from things they were too young to remember.
That’s true. But I imagine a lot has to do with how they are received and how they deal with it. If the adopting parents handle it gracefully, then the child is in a good place to deal with their trauma, whether it’s consciously or subconsciously. At least I hope.
The headline alone just outright insults the other twin. lmao wtf
the researchers note that the sister raised in the US had suffered three previous concussions
the twin raised in Korea described growing up in a loving and harmonious family home, the adopted sister reported a harsher upbringing, colored by regular conflict and the divorce of her adoptive parents
It does seem as if there would be explanations for the unusual difference.
That’s kind of an understatement. Three traumatic brain injuries is not exactly something that can be ignored when discussing differences in mental faculties.
It can be ignored if your only priority is dunking on America. I feel sorry for this young person being made into the poster child for everyone who would like to take America down a peg. Even the concussions will somehow get attributed to “the way things are there.”
Concussion, and Traumatic Brain Injury, are two very different diagnosis.
The two shouldn’t be conflated.I’m not conflating anything. A concussion is literally considered a mild TBI.
A concussion is a mild traumatic brain injury that affects brain function. Effects are often short term and can include headaches and trouble with concentration, memory, balance, mood and sleep.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/concussion/symptoms-causes/syc-20355594
Concussion is a type of mild TBI that may be considered a temporary injury to the brain but could take minutes to several months to heal.
https://www.ninds.nih.gov/health-information/disorders/traumatic-brain-injury-tbi
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) defines concussion as a traumatic brain injury (TBI) caused by a bump, blow, or jolt to the head or by a hit to the body that causes the head and brain to move rapidly back and forth.
https://biausa.org/brain-injury/about-brain-injury/what-is-a-brain-injury/concussion-mtbi
There seems to be this trend of masochistic behavior in the US. Where we take pride in our injuries and illness, bragging about working and pushing ourselves while we are suffering. The whole time telling ourselves it’s not that bad. It’s definitely stood out more since Covid, it’s stupid behavior though.
Thank the puritans who evolved into evangelicals and baptists for that.
“Religious freedom” to make others suffer is why they came here. The idea for separation between church and state did not come out of nowhere.
That does exist.
Just like the tendency to make things sound worse than they are.Why use the broader term instead of the more narrow, when both are accurate? Could it be in this case to associate a relatively minor injury with its most extreme version?
The same way that stapling your finger and being shot, are both wounds.
All concussions are traumatic brain injuries, not all traumatic brain injuries are concussions.
And there’s a reason for the two different terms. Concussions (or mild TBI), is a brief dysfunction of the brain. Full TBI is substantial often permanent damage.
Using the term TBI for concussion, is an example of manipulative intensifying language, to make something sound worse than it is.
Lol brain injury is cumulative (e.g. football players) in what way is calling brain injury what if is “manipulative intensifying language” lmao
This isnt me defending the US btw, apparently its the kind of place you get lots of concussions (the nice, non traumatic kind tho ;3)
If there are two correct and common terms; One broad that includes far more severe effects, and one narrow that specifically excludes the worst. Then choosing to use less accurate term is misleading and manipulative, intentionally or not.
Right, this assertion is invalidated and agenda-driven.
Can you clarify?
It’s invalidated because multiple concussions would probably damage the brain and reasonably lower IQ. Also, the potential abuse that was hinted at would of course potentially affect IQ as well. It’s agenda-driven because it trivializes all of the above in order to push what seems to be an anti-USA agenda.
Sure. That’s first and foremost. To be fair, though, the heavy metal poisoning and poor educational opportunities endemic to the US probably didn’t help either.
Ultimately their IQ differences were environmental, and the difference in their environments was National. Of course n=1 is fairly meaningless.
while the other faced hardships with her adoptive family and parents
Does anyone have more info? Abuse, neglect, and malnutrition are proven to reduce IQ. So are the concussions referenced in the article. I would be dubious to make any statements on the back of a single case like this. This is not even outside the realm of possibility of twin IQ variance - albeit unlikely.
So is lead.
Using historical data on U.S. childhood blood-lead levels, leaded-gas use, and population statistics, they determined the likely lifelong burden of lead exposure carried by every American alive in 2015.
https://today.duke.edu/2024/12/20th-century-lead-exposure-damaged-american-mental-health
She looks pretty young, but still.
Also, just schooling, lol. US education sucks donkey dick
The photo is stock. They’re in their 40s so it could be lead. The US twin experienced multiple serious concussions, so that alone might explain a 16 point IQ difference.
Not stock, slop.
This summer, they’re gonna get their parents back together!
iq still a thing?
Americans are so weird about IQ. Yes, indeed, some brains work better than others — by avoiding lead poisoning or traumatic brain injuries, for instance, and by reading books, pursuing higher education, and enjoying a fulfilling social environment.
It’s mostly a metric people use to prove their superiority over other people, when all of the other metrics for happiness and success suggest otherwise.
Yes. Contrary to current pop-sci thought, it’s not actually useless bunk. Epically when differences reach into 2 digits.
I didn’t realise it wasn’t a thing anymore.
I know it’s never been a good indicator of success or even cognitive abilities but it’s still a thing that people try to measure.
IQ is a very good indicator of cognitive abilities. It’s a poor indicator of kindness, morality, or honesty.
I know it’s never been a good indicator of success
I suppose you might define “success” in an unusual way, but IQ is the single highest correlate with income of all factors. Higher than parental income, race, or residential location.
If you’re interesting in learning more I recommend this article. They cite a lot of data and research. I’m happy to walk you through the directionality topic as well if you’re interested.
I may need you to walk me past my inhibitions about accepting scientific information from a website called PumpkinPerson that center justifies its articles.
there are companies that still use myers-briggs personality tests for “compatibility”
Myers-Briggs is modern snake oil.
Meyers-Briggs is astrology with more steps
Yeah, that is accurate. Astrology pretending to be science.
It still is a thing, always will be. People are vastly differently skilled. The problem isnt that there are different abilities but that our centralized meat mill pushes them into categories. It doesnt make you better to have more skill in one area, it just means people should consider listening to you.
Why wouldn’t it be? It is the single most research metric in all of sociology. We have more evidence for the existence of the g factor (and its causal and correlative effects) than any other phenomenon in that entire school of science.
Don’t confuse the criticism of measurement tools with the premise that g doesn’t exist.
Apparently not in the US!
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It’s not canceled. It’s just not an accurate reflection of inherent overall intelligence but, instead, a measurement of very specific mental skills.
It’s a test of pattern recognition. The difficulties come from trying to apply similar measurements between disparate populations, as the questions themselves tend to rely upon common understandings of the world. You can measure two people from two different cultures with two different tests, but then it’s more difficult to claim that the resulting scores are comparable. As long as people understand that it’s a rough approximation rather than something akin to video game stats, then it’s quite useful.
Even video game stats have the same problems though, your W/L ratio in free for all should be a lot lower than in team deathmatch, or if you are playing a support class it’s expected you get less kills per game so comparing a support player vs a fragger will get you errors but if you control for as many variables as possible then IQ can be a not complete shit variable
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I learned about the issues with IQ long before “cancelling” was a thing.
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Ok, but if you’re gonna make a joke like that in a serious thread about actual IQ, you’re probably gonna want to include a little bit more so people are able to pick up what you’re putting down.
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Really? I thought I was being pretty cordial… Oh well.
Of course not. IQ should be forbidden because it is racist, fascist and bad!
You can always tell which people took an “IQ test” (most of them probably even just did some bullshit online thing and not even a real one) and have nothing else going for them but a number that they think tells people they’re smart.
Yeah, about online tests, I’ve taken it twice in the olden days, once I got a result (probably due to connection problems) fitting a rock, and once I got something egghead high (probably due to the same).
And I’ve never met people mentioning their IQ test results as an argument other than what you said.
You just did it. 🤷♂️
I thought I did the opposite.
The sister raised in the US had an IQ 16 points lower than her sibling in Korea. Previous studies revealed that identical twins typically have no more than a 7-point IQ difference, making this case astounding.
@fne8w2ah environment shapes our behavior.
Especially if that environment includes head trauma.
Yes, but, IQ isn’t expected to be that much influenced by behavior.
source: My partner is a psychologist and sometimes I listen
Was the one raised in the U.S. around lead at some point?
No, but she had three concussions
What kind of concussions? Knocked out, bleeding from the head, and forced to stay in bed for a few days, or ran head first into door/wall/table and started crying with a mild headache?
I feel there’s a start difference between those two, and the article doesn’t appear to specify.
Every time my siblings or I had anything anyone considered a concussion. They couldn’t walk in a straight line, were throwing up when standing up. My sister got a concussion from a bad go-cart crash (it went through the barrier and fake wall). She was shaky on her feet for 3days, and had bad bruising all over her face. My brother fell head first over a raised porch railing into rocks, about 5ft. They had to glue the skin back together on his forehead because they couldn’t sew it the edges wouldn’t meet. Ever since he’s plagued by migraines especially when his sinuses are full. I was doing backflips on a trampoline, landed in the “cannon ball” position on the back of my neck/head. This slammed my right knee into my eye socket, giving me a spectacular black eye. But nearly immediately I got intense vertigo, nausea. If I closed my eyes it felt like I was falling, but I felt so tired. This lasted the rest of the day and I had be injured before noon.
Sure my mom might dramatically call a toddlers spill a concussion. But I my experience she only remembers that for like a week maybe. What she remembers and tells doctors and others about years later are the bleeding throwing up kind. Not saying I can tell she had serious concussions, just it would be really weird to report a little head bump and bruise for this kind of thing.
Irrelavant but awesome: DJ Format - Separated at Birth (if you ever played with old school hot wheels cars, this is your wet dream…)
neat video, but the beat was annoying and didnt seem to have any variance, had to watch
genuinely? I liked the almost sloppy yet primal feel of that everpresent beat
