Mike German, an ex-FBI agent, said immigration agents hiding their identities ‘highlights the illegitimacy of actions’
Some wear balaclavas. Some wear neck gators, sunglasses and hats. Some wear masks and casual clothes.
Across the country, armed federal immigration officers have increasingly hidden their identities while carrying out immigration raids, arresting protesters and roughing up prominent Democratic critics.
It’s a trend that has sparked alarm among civil rights and law enforcement experts alike.
Mike German, a former FBI agent, said officers’ widespread use of masks was unprecedented in US law enforcement and a sign of a rapidly eroding democracy. “Masking symbolizes the drift of law enforcement away from democratic controls,” he said.
I always wondered if there were people that watched the history of Nazi Germany and didn’t feel immediate revulsion from it.
I mean I just grew up thinking that it was universally true that people thought that fascism and authoritarianism is bad in the US. Like Nazis are bad guys and SS guards were cruel and inhuman. All the usual things.
But there are actually people in the US that would have gleefully cheered on the rise of fascism in Germany and would have been right there to sign up to be SS guards and brown shirts, beating up Jews and gays and socialists and executing them in the streets.
Like, monsters really do live among us. I really didn’t think that that kind of detestable subhumans existed in modern America.
The American Gestapo AKA ICE are objectively bad people. There’s no other way to frame it. They are just bad people, evil, violent monsters who should be purged (jailed) from society.
I can’t imagine growing up thinking “I want to be just like those and SS animals”. Like where did their mothers and fathers go wrong? Total sociopaths.
Oh my sweet summer child. If you really believe this, then you haven’t spent much time around conservatives. I was raised by them. Nazism was/is taken lightly, like a silly joke (that’s why you saw so many people smiling and laughing at Elon’s Nazi salute at the inauguration). Never seen as a serious threat—even today—as it starts to actually become one. The vast majority of conservatives are either in denial over the rise of Neo-Nazism, or are just straight-up Nazis themselves.
I’m not in the US but that’s truly chilling to hear. When you’re not surrounded by it, you don’t realise how normalised something becomes in a different part of society.
US law says if you see someone being assaulted, and the perp is not identified as law enforcement, you can kill the attacker in defense of the person being assaulted.
Of course the same goes for self defense.
If someone is assaulting you and not identifing as law enforcement you can kill them in self defense.
What is the legal qualification for “identifying as law enforcement”? Can I don a mask and tacti-cool gear and shout “ICE federal agent” as I attack someone?
Genuine question, because that’s what’s happening
I would say showing a badge, and them waiting patiently while you can call in to confirm their legitimacy with their org.
The precedent tho is that anyone who identifies as law enforcement is supposed to be believed.
People are impersonating ICE all the time these days, its reasonable to not believe someone is an ICE agent based on word alone. If a person killed an ICE agent assuming he was an imposter then a judge might not throw the book at them, considering our current climate.
You can but ICE “plaques” of 5", approximately the right size, here: https://americanplaquecompany.com/product/dhs-ice-badge-plaque/
I wouldn’t be able to tell that from a legitimate badge
So many of the videos I’ve seen are of supposed officers forcibly kidnapping people without giving a badge number or warrant (some claim there are no badge numbers for ICE, but likely that was a fake officer. They certainly aren’t letting people look up a contact number for DHS
Also feels like the administration is waiting for someone to resost so Trump can label them a terrorist and make an example out of them, despite it being perfectly legal self-defense
As much as I like the way you think, I don’t think that would fly in an American court of law. You don’t need to see their face to know their a cop / law enforcement. They’re wearing a uniform.
A lot of ICE agents aren’t wearing a uniform. The domestic terrorist in Minnesota was wearing more of a uniform than 90% of ICE agents
Some brave patriot needs to test it and demand a jury trial
A lot of them are plain cloths
These are the same people who whined about having to wear a mask during Covid.
I work in 911 dispatch
During COVID we had to ask all of our callers some extra questions if they were going to be in contact with any of our units
Something along the lines of “has anyone there had or been in contact with anyone who has had flu-like symptoms recently?”
And if they did we added a note to the call indicating that.
One night I got a call from one of our off-duty officers calling in an accident he witnessed.
I get all the usual information and start asking our COVID questions
And he gets really indignant about it “why are you asking me this?” “This is stupid.” Etc.
Like dude, you’re one of our officers. We’ve been advising you about potential COVID exposures on your own calls, where do you think we were getting that information? This shit is for your benefit, not ours, I can’t catch COVID from someone over the phone (the disease vectors sitting the consoles adjacent to me could be another story)
And that’s pretty typical of how cops act towards us, the people they rely on to give them information they need to do their jobs, send them backup when needed, etc. blows my mind that so many of my co-workers are absolute bootlickers.
This describes half of most departments. The good cops burn out from the idiocy from all sides and end up fire fighters, EMTs, bartenders and roofers. The dumb ones stay and try not to get fired until they can get that penchant.
Thank you for the difficult public service you do.
“I cAnT bReAtHe!!!”
Yes you can, asshole. It’s a slight inconvience, but it’s a far cry from not getting oxygen.
But oh, now that it’s being used to conceil your identity, you’re all fine???
I’m a fat, on-and-off smoker. Once in a while I get it in my head I’m gonna exercise and I start running or something. It usually doesn’t last very long, running sucks.
But the one time it almost stuck was when I decided to do it as sort of a new years resolution when we were getting hit by some crazy polar vortex weather with temperatures hovering just barely above 0°F (about -17°C)
It was great, no matter how hard I tried to run I couldn’t work up a sweat.
That cold, dry air is kind of rough on your lungs though, so I tied a bandana around my face so I could breathe some warmer, moister air.
The bandana got soaked with condensation from my breath, and since it was so cold it pretty much froze solid the second I took it off at the end of my run. Then the condensation in my beard and mustache froze into icicles.
So the best runs of my life were done breathing through 2 layers of wet fabric. Anyone who claims that they can’t breathe through a mask is either full of shit or probably needs to be on a ventilator.
I’d bet theres at least 80% overlap with people that somehow couldn’t breathe in a disposable medical mask during covid
80 is unnecessarily pessimistic
The other 20% just wanted to get people sick on purpose.
Now serial killers and pedophiles can larp and kidnap children and adults too.
All Thanks to ICE!
DONAKD J TRUMP
“Okay, girlie. No sudden moves or I’m putting one in your gut. If you scream, my cop buddies around the corner will be all over you.”
“But I’m being nice. If you stay quiet and come with me, I’ll smooth things over with the force. We won’t have to break all of your bones before letting you go.”
“Now get over here. I’m going to take you somewhere special. You’ll love it.”
Awwww…nobody ever loves ME enough to want to kidnap…
I’ll kidnap you. I’ll even throw in mailing a severed finger to someone for free.
IKR. I always knew that I was unattractive, since I went to a catholic boys school and no one molested me…
Fascism isn’t some nebulous concept on the horizon. Or maybe hiding around the next blind corner.
It is literally here. Now. Right now.
Wake up call. America has secret police (gestapo) now.
Yes, what to do about it?
general strike
I’m going to write my senators and hold up a sign, with a polite yet firm wording, in a very peaceful protest
My advice is, anybody who can leave the Untied States should
A major reason police officers wear uniforms is for their obvious identification as a legal law enforcement entity formally trained and endorsed by the state. While it’s generally symbolic, it is at least a basic-ass demonstration of good faith identification/adherence to the law. EVEN IF it’s just performative, it’s still at least saying their actions will be in accordance with the law, and at least implying that their intent is enforcement of that same law.
However, if they not only ditch the uniform, but even literally wear things to mask their identity, the symbolism of good-faith action and intent go out the window. Why would any reasonable person trust such a blatant disregard for clear establishment of authority figures? Furthermore, if such symbolism is reversed in such a manner, how could any reasonable person not assume ill-intent? If they’re taking away even US citizens for an indeterminate amount of time and to an indeterminate place, then wouldn’t it be in the best interest of the people that encounter law enforcement to resist by any means–even lethal means? And to further compound the problem, there were recent high-profile political murders by someone impersonating a police officer. So not only are we unable to trust legitimate police officers while they’re in uniform, we now have(admittedly weak(for now)) evidence that the uniform no longer implies good-faith intent of the person wearing it. Which leads me to one final major issue; if our confidence in officers’ law-bound behavior is shattered, and our confidence in our citizen status to ensure our rights is shattered, and our confidence in police uniforms being fairly reliable identification symbolism is shattered, then what amount of confidence is left in any law enforcement officials when they then wear clothing that is symbolically indicative of someone acting in bad faith with ill-intent? And then local law enforcement, in uniform, protect and assist alleged federal law enforcement in their very high-profile raids.
So, moral reasoning aside, it would be unwise to even engage with any law enforcement or anyone that claims to be law enforcement. They can’t be trusted and their intent is unknown. They are visibly armed with a variety of weapons and are currently engaging in illegal operations systematically–even though the confines of current law effectively gives them legal means to do whatever they want. All that said, it can reasonably argued that it’s effectively a death sentence if you get swept up by someone claiming to be law enforcement, regardless of whether or not they can be confidently identified as such. All that to say: some fed bois are gonna get smoked before the end of the year and they’ve earned it by undermining themselves in the public eye. I have extreme confidence that things will get better in the long run, but as for the foreseeable future, the worst is yet to come.
Tl;dr: Law enforcement abandoning clear uniform identification for bad-faith/ill-intent symbolism logically justifies lethal resistance. There will probably be multiple shootings of feds by the end of the year at this rate. If some alphabet feds get shot, could be claimed as a cases belli for some real bullshit.
It’s not a major reason it’s the reason.
The first question they ask an officer in any situation with force is did you announce your presence and was it obvious you’re police. It’s the whole reason you aren’t supposed to be pulled over by plain clothes, they’re supposed to call a marked unit to effectuate a stop.
This trend didn’t started with ICE officers hiding their face but with the police patrols with “ghost marks”. I remember from years ago seeing memes of those patrol cars compared with European ones, that are full of bright colors, the message of each one as “I’m here hidden to catch you vs I’m here calling your attention to help you*”
* Obligatory All Cops, even the hot Sweeden and Italian cops, Are Bastards.
Even shorter TL;DR: The lack of verifiable face-value LEOs breaks even the shitty social contract we did have, and it’s gonna create problems.
bunch of pussy. Too afraid to show their faces.
In fact, if I ask for identification and they dont provide, I’ll call them: Mr. Pussy #1, Mr. Pussy #2…etc.
What fucking sucks is that they are criminalizing wearing KN-95s to protests in state laws because apparently they’re so dangerous while simultaneously saying that these guys need masks to protect themselves.
Why the fuck do the cromagnons in office think I’m still wearing a KN-95? So I can cosplay Blade Runner at work? Because I am a duck furry and this is a subtle way of fursuiting? For the high fashion? Because I am taunting non-mask-wearers? NO, IT IS TO PROTECT MYSELF.
aaaaaaAAAAAAA
The masks have nothing to do with COVID. To protect themselves means to hide their identity so people can’t dox them and harasses them at home.
I know. But they are making COVID masks illegal to wear at protests because they are claiming that we are anarchists trying to to hide our identities. Meanwhile, these same cowards covering their face to protect themselves were the same cowards screaming bloody murder at the beginning of COVID that they can’t wear a mask because of 'health issues.
I dunno about the MAGAs, but I think at this point, with COVID very low in the USA, most people are wearing masks because it sends a signal about where they stand on COVID, not for their own protection. Obviously there are some people who are particularly vulnerable, who can’t have the vaccine for example, for whom mask-wearing will remain important forever (and would likely have been beneficial before the pandemic) but I don’t believe that’s the majority.
The reason is that mask wearing in my home country went down to zero after most people were vaccinated and the virus became uncommon. But here mask-wearing was never politicised, so without an anti-mask group to oppose it never became a symbol for those who did wear them.
You’re wrong, but, keep cooking fam. COVID is only “very low” in the US because we have pulled all funding for PCR testing, contact tracing, and wastewater level analysis. COVID didn’t go away; we just stopped caring once it got a little more tolerable, symptoms-wise.
I wear masks still because they are PPE — PERSONAL protective equipment. I can’t trust anyone to consider me and my immunocompromised state, so, I wear a mask to try and at least protect myself. I’m not making a ‘statement’, and your notion that I am can eat my entire asshole.
Stick to speaking about your home country. You clearly don’t understand the situation on the ground here.
No, COVID is very low in the US - just as in the early days when there was little testing available, you can track what the disease is doing by looking at hospital admissions data.
I did mention people who are particularly vulnerable, and if that includes you then the rest of what I said doesn’t apply to you. I find it’s more efficient to talk about the likely case and mention the exception in a single message than to first ask “are you immunocompromised” and then reply separately.
I just got Covid from an outdoor event in the summer.
Land of the Brave
Puts on mask to hide identity
I see 2 options here:
Getting kidnapped and imprisoned now (whether that’s by ‘real’ police or fake)
Or.
Shooting the mask wearing weirdos now and maybe potentially possibly getting imprisoned later.Out of these two choices I know which I’d take.
Yup.
I’ll shoot a masked individual trying to abduct me in the face, then deal with the repercussions after I potentially saved myself from being human trafficked or having my organs harvested.
If you have to cover up your entire face like this it should be a huge hint that what you’re doing is fucked up
It’s illegal and they know it. This is a vain attempt to avoid punishment once Biff is not in power anymore.
At this point, my first reaction to seeing anyone in law enforcement at any level is they are a criminal thugs that cannot be trusted, should be undermined at every opportunity, insulted relentlessly, and if necessary, worse. I know there are some good cops, and not everything they do is bad, but goddamn they do they suck in general.
I heard this one recently: Take 100 gallons of dirty sewage water and add 1 gallon of clean water. What do you have? It’s not 101 clean gallons of water or even 100 gallons dirty and 1 clean anymore…
You now have 101 gallons of dirty fucking sewage water.
ACAB (and soon to be ACAN ~ All Cops Are Nazis)
Works the other way too.
If I take 100 Gallons of clean water and dump a gallon of sewage into it, would you pour yourself a glass?
One bad apple spoils the bunch. Good point!
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The challenge today is that their legal job may now require them to do things that are constitutionally questionable and ethically repugnant. So even if they’re good people and upstanding citizens, they may be required to, at any point in their day, to choose between doing the right thing and losing their job.
They only have to choose wrong once to no longer be the “good cop”.
Now, because of the way policing works in the US, it may be possible to have an intrinsically good police department. At least until a state or federal agency rolls into town and demands they do something they wouldn’t otherwise do; then they become complicit.
After all… in any other organized gang, there can be good people, but they’re still going to be found guilty of gang activity due to supporting the others.
Didn’t help Christopher Dorner either.
excuse me, but that is shit logic.
people are indivisible, which makes them different from a gallon of water.
Analogies aren’t perfect, but they usually get the point across. Maybe the “one bad apples spoils the bunch” sits better? Apples are indivisible like people.
If I buy a bunch of apples and one is bad, then I simply don’t eat the one apple and throw it away. Similarly, if there’s one bad cop I just imprison it based on their illegal actions.
The thing with the US police force is that enough of them are bastards, and nothing is done against their behavior, that you always have to assume that any one of them is a bastard. If it was only rare single bad cops and they would be immediately removed on first infraction, I’m sure there would not be a problem with the police.
This is the rational truth and I think it was very simply expressed, without needing to say “All cops” nor “one bad cop makes everything terrible”. There is theoretically no need for generalizations in intelligent discussion. The problem is that many people are too stupid or not interested in intelligent discussion, at which point these generalizations might become necessary simply because of practical limitations. But we should strive to use the more accurate statement if possible.
You’re missing a critical part of the apples analogy. When apples start to rot, they release ethylene gas which is a plant hormone that accelerates aging in nearby fruits.
So by the time you found the rotten apple, it has already spoiled the bunch.
I’m not really missing it. It’s just an unfitting analogy. People don’t have to work like rotting apples.
If one single person is being stupid we punish them/cast them out. The problem with people is that a large amount are being bad.
They are all bad. Cause the good ones can’t or don’t do anything about the bad ones. And if they do they usually hurt themselves for some reason. So since the good cop can’t or won’t do anything about the bad one it makes them bad.
Yeah obviously at this point that is true. I’m just talking about the general system, saying it doesn’t need to be all bad absolutely. At this point, if we’re talking about the US, they’d need a complete reform.
As human beings, our interests, philosophies, politics, etc, yes.
As workers in a job, not so much. The analogy works in that scenario. We all conform, to varying degrees, to the groups that we join. Especially when that group is your full time employ, where you spend most of your time and gain most of your money.
There’s a HBO show called The Wire that is amazing, and I would recommend to anyone to watch, but particularly to yourself because “Simon has said that despite its framing as a crime drama, the show is “really about the American city, and about how we live together. It’s about how institutions have an effect on individuals. Whether one is a cop, a longshoreman, a drug dealer, a politician, a judge or a lawyer, all are ultimately compromised and must contend with whatever institution to which they are committed.”[5]”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wire
Trailer: https://youtu.be/1S5khOZ1wBs
Warning: it is slow paced, it’s more like reading a book on your screen than watching a traditional TV show, but it’s worth it
You put a good person in a shit department and they leave or become shit themselves ; either way, they whole group is still shit.
Humans aren’t a gallon of water, but you’re naive if you think we’re not influence-able just the same.
Doesn’t matter all cops are bad. Yes there might be a “good” cool but since they can’t or won’t do anything about the bad one they’re bad. And the shitty thing is if someone tries to eat out a bad cop they are the ones who get take the shit. So yes all cops are bad.
Would you think the same in another country? In Canada? Or in The Netherlands?
I don’t have experience with either of those places but when I was in Rome, Italy it was plainly obvious that the 5 or 6 different kinds of cops, none of whom were helping people, are useless thugs and goons just like the Americans.
But was there a situation where they were needed? Or were they standing doing nothing because there was nothing?
I have known multiple firefighters which were happy most of the time to get the support from the cops to handle the situation.
The cops I have seen were always doing something even if it were just patrolling. You can call that useless, but at least they are outside and can be called.
Let them wear masks. It’s an important piece of safety equipment in some scenarios. Lets mandate that undercover/plain clothes officers cannot enforce the law beyond what a civilian could do. They should not be allowed to arrest you, or point a gun at you, or demand that you ID yourself. Only officers in uniform should be allowed to do those things, and they should be required to identify themselves, the department they work for, and display a badge with number to be considered “in uniform”.
It’d be ashamed if they were to get bear sprayed on their masks and had to remove them.
Nah bro, aerosolized coyote piss. Get that up in their mask. Or just a super soaker full of it.
Don’t ask me how you get the piss, just know it works.
You can get it from hunting supply places in bottles. Sometimes people also buy coyote pee for putting around their gardens to spook off the deer.
