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“What if we took a place known for being quiet and made it loud?”
Ok, then let’s make a new space called a loudbrary.
You’re implying “li” means quiet and I have no choice but to believe this madness because I can’t be bothered to look it up.
I’m sure the Loudbrarian could help you with that.
WHAT?!
I DON’T KNOW ASK LOUD BRIAN!
megaphone crackles to life
It comes from the Latin libre, meaning free.
until now
This is incorrect.
From Wikipedia:
The term library is based on the Latin word liber for ‘book’ or ‘document’, contained in Latin libraria ‘collection of books’ and librarium ‘container for books’.
I accept the correction.
I accept your acceptance of the correction.
I witness this agreement to accept the correction
Perhaps some sort of community drinkbrary, as seen in the image.
Outside of normal operating hours? Why not?
To be fair libraries are very active places, there are plenty of quiet spaces in most of them as well for this reason. Why can’t we accommodate everyone? We aren’t talking pumping music, just basic conversation, which already happens.
If it gets too loud, there’s always the quiet places for people that want more peace ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We aren’t talking pumping music…
YOU may not be but I guarantee that within the first 60 minutes at least three people are going to try and do just that.
One word: headphones
Please. People regularly ignore that social convention in public spaces like Mass Transit and Parks. Why do you think libraries would be any different?
“Speakers not allowed. Anyone using them will be expelled and banned from entering again” (or something like that)
If it’s against the rules, they’ll be kicked out, like it happens already… and if they allow the music, well you are free to choose another library that fits your specific needs. Just like the ones using the louder library since it’s already for them.
Be honest, how long has it been since you’ve been in a public library?
Since I’m a Technical Consultant for my local library I can honestly say I was in one just last week. In fact I’m logged into their system right now making some adjustments to their public access computers. I know what patrons are doing when they think no one is looking and I know exactly what would happen if Libraries were open late so people could lounge around.
Many libararies are already employing Security Staff to keep things under control during regular hours and there is no reason to think that it get any better ‘after dark’ so to speak.
So you work offsite, rarely visit, and are making sweeping judgements on how patrons you don’t even see or interact with would be behaving in a hypothetical scenario?
Lol.
the part where logging in to a computer remotely is apparently as good as visiting a place in person fucking sent me. this is what being online 24/7 does to a person.
Reviewing the actual logs which collect data over long periods is more reliable.
Btw where the fuck did they say that they never visited the place? For all we know they have worked for the library onsite for months or even years.
this is what being online 24/7 does to a person.
Yeah, I know what you mean…
I’ve got to be honest that picture is just a pub with books.
A library doesn’t care about you buying shit just to be there though?
Hell if I could just bring my own food to a pub and hang out I would.
But free and no booze, so
I’d prefer free with booze ty
I wonder if the public perception and use of libraries would be improved if they weren’t these strangely silent book temples and were instead places of public learning and conversation.
Two words: flourescent lighting
Guess what’s not depicted in the above illustration?
Something the AI that drew it left out. Dude on the couch on the left has three feet. This is as much as the AIs vision as it is the OPs, without the prompt we’ll never know.
Your library isn’t? Mine has events all the time
My county library has tons of spaces to be loud and engage with others, hosts a lot of events and to be honest has only a few quiet spaces.
The public perception of libraries being super quiet book temples is really outdated.
Were they even that way? I mean, from as long as I can remember there was quiet and non quiet times, quiet and non quiet spaces in librairies. I’ve never heard of one were it is fully silent all the time. Isn’t that just the case in movies for comedic effect?
In my VERY limited experience, school libraries tend to be quiet/silent while public ones are more communal with varied loudness spaces. But a lot of people only experience school libraries.
I wish. Getting scolded by an old crone for daring to use your voice in the library never leaves you. Children can be excited or loud sometimes, but libraries exist to make them seen, not heard.
My hometown library was quiet all the time in the 80s, but it was also basically one really large room and any noise carried really well so they enforced quiet. The state college library was similar, and enforced quiet when I went in the 90s because people were studying.
Most libraries in the movies are also large, open spaces and like everything else they play up the extremes or the writer’s experiences. Since movies tend to stick with stereotypes, so don’t expect a library scene in a movie without someone being hushed any time soon.
Libraries weren’t created to be quiet places. They were created to preserve and share knowledge.
And to steal it from others. Sure, Alexandra might have given you back a copy, but not the original.
If you have a book and I have a book we have two books
Yes. I want to start this library.
Books help keep track of science and share it efficiently but the only knowledge we have is the one we still have when showering.
I like to picture water proof books.
Hey! My first Book was one of those bath book for Babys…
I mean, temporarily loud. I think that would be OK.
I think there is room for both. Our library has a small restaurant and hall for lounging and isn’t quiet at all. But the main library is business as usual and quiet.
The place you’re talking about isn’t even open during the hours being discussed. Which is the entire point of this post.
Who cares who is being loud are they disturbing the non-existent regular patrons?
During specific hours so everyone can plan accordingly? Yes. Absolutely we should do this.
and we’ve circled back to the missing third place – libraries as community centers, family friendly pubs and bars, coffee shops that don’t require buying half the menu to just hang out, walkable (and bikable) cities where people can go for an evening stroll without being afraid of being run over …
I want this so bad. Why can’t the car loving suburbanites who visit Europe and love it just get on board?
Cars are not freedom, if anything they take it away while making life miserable for everyone.
Cars aren’t good and I’d like to have less of them… but they’re not responsible for all that ails us.
Yes ! A thousand time yes !
The library are the last third places publicly accessible.
What we need is more third places where we can just meet other people, neighbors without the expectation to spend money.
Like the park?
Precisely, like the park.
Parks close early too
Some parks don’t close at all
I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a closed park in Australia. Maybe I don’t get out much though.
How do you close a park? Are the parks fenced/gated?
Yep.
Or you put up signs and pay security/police/bylaw officers to patrol.
I’ve got a nice local coffee place where I buy a single drink then sit and read for ~45 minutes. Very nice would recommend
I used to ho to a cafe that has a small book exchange library in the back. You could just go there, pick a book and read it with your coffee then bring the book home if you wish before bringing it back once your are done with it.
Libraries would need more funding to operate extended hours…
Then people would complain about gov’t spending and taxes. Then we would privatize the libraries
This is why we cant have nice things
In his book Humankind Rutger Bregman talks about the election of a mayor in a city in Venezuela who campaigned on the notion that he wouldn’t do the job. After years of corruption and broken promises from other politicians, the people hated the mayor so much they liked this idea a lot.
Part of his job was to create a budget. So he told everybody to submit a budget, and gave them last year’s as a template. The general consensus was that they’d happily raise their taxes to pay for new parks and bus routes.
(This is a half remembered summary but I highly recommend the entire book.)
I think the real reason we can’t have nice things is because we don’t have a way to make sure nice things can happen.
Capitalists trying to convince the public to privatize things has nothing to do with cost; even if they were free, every dollar saved by the public represents a potential profit they’re losing.
Ah yes, privatization will make it cheaper because of competition…
meanwhile one company buys out all the competition, monopolizes, charges more, and becomes the modern day version of a duke or lord. Yay capitalism
I’m pro-library, and many reduced hours during the pandemic and never picked it back up. Resources are shrinking for them.
And it sucks that there’s so many society problems and places like libraries and ER rooms get slashed resources. Because these spaces serve a public good, for neighborhoods, and the unhoused.
these spaces serve a public good, for neighborhoods, and the unhoused.
This is why I don’t get the generalized hate on taxes. If I worked and had to give like 90% away for taxes and was left just with pocket money I would be absolutely on board if that meant that the money went to what you mentioned above. Guaranteed healthcare, good education for kids, an apartment, basic foods. Imagine having everything you need provided to you and just having 200-300€ a month to spend on what you will. Theater, movies, a fancy restaurant, or save up for a small trip. And all the while you know you’re safe, and your neighbor is safe, and in the fancy third wave coffee shop you sit next to the garbage man and the finance attorney because both have pretty much equal money to spend. But somehow just the idea of having to pay taxes turns so many people off.
Also librarians maybe want the same free time as their families
Nobody says the same librarian would be 24/7 there.
Presumably not the same one no, but somebody has to cover it. Not a job that’s traditionally shift work in my past of be world, so a sizeable change for existing staff. I think a community ran version would be better for this sort of idea, or if people are aware of the less formal evening setting doesn’t have to be full librarians on staff, reduced service sort of thing.
Turns out brainwashing a society to be selfish consumers has side effects like: not wanting to spend their money on services for the public good.
“They aren’t me, why should I care!?”
Or even if you personally benefit from public services, you’ll still complain about “muh tax dollars!!”
Years and years ago my friends mom was complaining about taxes for public school. I said ‘but your kids were public schooled!?’ and she responded, perfectly seriously, “yeah but not anymore.” (We had recently graduated). I have never forgotten this. It’s real. Real people think like this
I fucking hate those people so much. It’s those people and the “I don’t have kids” people that are the reason why teachers have to buy their own damn supplies that the kids actually need.
This isn’t a charity, those teachers are working and deserve their full income (that already isn’t high enough because of the previously mentioned assholes.)
Always worth reminding those without kids that someone else’s kid will be the doctors keeping them healthy, building their homes, working out how to power society as they fight to hold back the immense tide of global ecosystem collapse due to humanitiy’s hubris and need for constant gratification with a minimised focus on the impact decisions have on the future.
I like to remind those without kids that they were kids themselves and got an education.
That went south quick… What I meant to say was that we need to invest in building skills in young people. Not skimping on it like it’s an annoying sycophant begging for succour.
I really don’t understand the “my tax dollars!” argument. Like, it’s a pool of resources and you deducted as much as you could, Robert.
Those damn librarytarians!
Cheaply selling drinks (maybe non-alcoholic) would probably more than off-set the additional costs.
I wanna get lit at the library though.
Litbrary
Yes but it needs to be a nice cognac or fancy cocktails.
Lib[ation]rary
I don’t want to read at library where people are getting lit - and it misses the whole point of having a healthy third place to be. Take your book to a bar if you want that 😆
Nothing a flask can’t fix.
I prefer getting non-fiction. But I once frequented a bar called The Library. It was not wholesome…
We held a private work event at the museum one time… I got loaded on whisky and went to see all the dinosaur bones. It was one of the beat nights of my life
Coffee, tea, chocolate, lemonade, …
Add some waffles and I join the project!
DILATE JANNIES I CAN’T SEED I CAN’T GUCCI LOAFERS PARK AVENUE MANICURE CLEAN IT UP CHUCK’S SNEED’S FUCK SNEED’S FANCY GERMAN CAR COPE HOT POCKETS SNEED CHUCK’S I CAN’T FANCY GERMAN CAR FEED SEETHE SNEED I CAN’T FLOYD SEED CHUCK PARK AVENUE MANICURE FANCY GERMAN CAR DILATE FEED SEED SNEED CLEAN IT UP SNEED’S FEED FANCY GERMAN CAR I CAN’T SNEED’S GUCCI LOAFERS ON LEMMY CITY SLICKER SNEED’S SEED COPE PARK AVENUE MANICURE FANCY GERMAN CAR FUCK GUCCI LOAFERS SUCK ON LEMMY
SNEED FUCK FUCK CITY SLICKER CLEAN IT UP FEED FEED HOT POCKETS FANCY GERMAN CAR CHUCK’S CITY SLICKER SNEED’S JANNIES SNEED’S PARK AVENUE MANICURE FUCK AND FEED ON LEMMY SEETHE SEETHE COPE FEED JANNY I CAN’T JANNY JANNY SEED CHUCK ON LEMMY FLOYD FEED SUCK FEED SEED SEETHE SNEED FLOYD SNEED’S GUCCI LOAFERS AND JANNIES PARK AVENUE MANICURE SUCK FANCY GERMAN CAR GUCCI LOAFERS SUCK ON LEMMY I CAN’T HOT POCKETS
SEED GUCCI LOAFERS FEED CITY SLICKER DILATE JANNY AND SUCK FEED SUCK FEED AND SEED JANNIES SNEED’S COPE CHUCK’S ON LEMMY CHUCK’S FEED AND I CAN’T FOR FREE SEED SNEED I CAN’T SNEED’S JANNY AND AND CHUCK SEED JANNIES SEETHE SEETHE FANCY GERMAN CAR DILATE AND FLOYD FEED FLOYD CHUCK’S FANCY GERMAN CAR CLEAN IT UP FUCK FUCK GUCCI LOAFERS CHUCK PARK AVENUE MANICURE SNEED’S
How about coffee shops with e-readers built into the tables preloaded with an enormous collection of books?
My neck hurts reading this comment lol
Not a bad concept though.
Most libraries near me have coffee shops built into or right next to them. Is this not common?
GUCCI LOAFERS FLOYD I CAN’T SUCK FLOYD FOR FREE CHUCK SUCK HOT POCKETS JANNY I CAN’T SEED DILATE GUCCI LOAFERS FUCK COPE CHUCK’S JANNIES SEETHE FUCK DILATE CHUCK’S CHUCK FLOYD SEETHE FANCY GERMAN CAR SEED SNEED JANNY FLOYD FANCY GERMAN CAR I CAN’T ON LEMMY SNEED’S COPE JANNY ON LEMMY SNEED SEETHE PARK AVENUE MANICURE SEETHE SEED CHUCK GUCCI LOAFERS JANNIES CHUCK PARK AVENUE MANICURE FUCK SUCK I CAN’T
FANCY GERMAN CAR FLOYD PARK AVENUE MANICURE JANNIES AND JANNIES SUCK SNEED’S CITY SLICKER GUCCI LOAFERS CITY SLICKER JANNIES I CAN’T AND SNEED SNEED’S CHUCK SNEED’S SNEED’S SEETHE SEETHE SUCK SNEED’S SEED SEED JANNY JANNY CHUCK’S FOR FREE ON LEMMY FEED SEETHE JANNIES DILATE SNEED CITY SLICKER FUCK I CAN’T SNEED CLEAN IT UP FUCK ON LEMMY SEED FUCK HOT POCKETS PARK AVENUE MANICURE COPE FANCY GERMAN CAR COPE FEED
This isn’t the purpose of libraries. However, having car free streets and squares and parks with lights would be better choices.
¿Por qué no los dos?
Agree!
This isn’t the purpose of a library you want. But I’d greatly want this type of library
To be honest, this type of library is the only way I see public libraries surviving long term.
Some of the best ones I’ve been to balance space for community activities and space for quiet reading/study. I’m hoping to have one of those bad boys here relatively soon (on one of the most historically interesting blights of land in my city, too).
Please leave us introverts one quiet place
Because both can’t exist right? It must be one or the other.
For x number of months sure, where I am currently 5ish of those months are too cold to be outside.
Oh yeah, forgot about cold countries lol
Barnes and Noble
If by “engage in public life” they mean being quiet and not interrupting others’ quiet time then sure.
To me it sounds like people want another public space that isn’t a library. Once libations enter the picture it also feels like it’s not always going to be a safe place.
Aren’t libraries becoming that place though?
Yes there are books at my library but they only consume about 25% of the floor by my guess.
Another 25% is hosted for weekly groups run by the library. My kids go to “rhyme time” there. They have “device help” sessions for the elderly.
Another 25% is just tables and chairs, with a great view of the main street. It can be sectioned off so you can book a part of it for a community group gathering. Otherwise it’s people reading, knitting, doing jigsaws, that stuff.
About 15% is a study area which is accessible to the public during open hours or 24 hours for students. Great view of the park from here.
The remaining 10% is admin stuff. Every library I’ve been to in West Aus either is, or aspires to be this kind of format. They’re not just about books.
I kinda wonder how much time other commenter here have spent at their libraries.
I do spend my time in libraries, thank you very much :) Didn’t expect there to be gatekeeping on libraries, but here we are.
And a big part of such activities is either that they’re cordoned off and airgapped (and are done on select timings which are telegraphed way ahead of time) or are themselves quiet. Drinking and socialising to me don’t come under that same category. I’ve been to a library next to a board game shop and been struck by the difference in noise level and distraction there, so if it comes down to what the OP is actually suggesting, I’m skeptical it won’t intrude on others’ needs for a quiet, private place.
That’s not gatekeeping. Gatekeeping would be: you guys shouldn’t go to libraries because reasons. Im merely expressing an opinion that few people here seem to know what happens in libraries.
Case in point:
[…] a quiet, private place.
This doesn’t really describe a library in 2024. I’m sure there are some libraries in which talking and interacting is still discouraged, but that’s not the norm in my experience.
Why I think it’s gatekeeping:
You’re essentially implying people haven’t been in libraries by your last sentence if they haven’t seen what you’ve seen. That’s gatekeeping, like it or not.
EDIT: In case it isn’t clear, what you said was essentially:
“You’re not a library-goer because [reasons].”
That’s gatekeeping, my person.
Nonsense. Lets not co-opt “gatekeeping” to cover any sort of attitude we find distasteful, shall we?
Looking at a bunch of definitions of gatekeeping the closest I can find is this:
gatekeeping refers to the actions of individuals or groups who try to define what is and isn’t acceptable within a particular community and determine who is and isn’t allowed to participate.
My assertion:
I kinda wonder how much time other commenter here have spent at their libraries.
You really can’t co-opt that into the definition of gatekeeping.
The forum!
SEED COPE SNEED’S FLOYD FUCK FLOYD JANNIES AND DILATE GUCCI LOAFERS CITY SLICKER CHUCK’S I CAN’T FANCY GERMAN CAR AND SNEED PARK AVENUE MANICURE FOR FREE SNEED FEED AND FLOYD FOR FREE FUCK JANNIES CHUCK JANNY CHUCK’S FOR FREE AND SNEED SNEED’S FLOYD JANNIES JANNY PARK AVENUE MANICURE CHUCK CLEAN IT UP SNEED FUCK HOT POCKETS HOT POCKETS SUCK FOR FREE CHUCK’S FUCK FANCY GERMAN CAR JANNIES PARK AVENUE MANICURE PARK AVENUE MANICURE
GUCCI LOAFERS JANNY DILATE PARK AVENUE MANICURE CHUCK DILATE FANCY GERMAN CAR CHUCK FLOYD SNEED’S ON LEMMY ON LEMMY SNEED’S SEETHE SNEED CLEAN IT UP SNEED’S HOT POCKETS HOT POCKETS COPE FUCK CLEAN IT UP HOT POCKETS CITY SLICKER SNEED’S JANNIES GUCCI LOAFERS JANNIES HOT POCKETS CHUCK FLOYD CITY SLICKER SNEED’S PARK AVENUE MANICURE CHUCK CHUCK FOR FREE COPE CHUCK CITY SLICKER FEED JANNIES PARK AVENUE MANICURE FOR FREE FLOYD SNEED FUCK CHUCK’S PARK AVENUE MANICURE SEED
HOT POCKETS FLOYD JANNIES SNEED’S SEED FANCY GERMAN CAR PARK AVENUE MANICURE GUCCI LOAFERS SNEED’S FLOYD SEETHE CLEAN IT UP CLEAN IT UP COPE GUCCI LOAFERS FUCK JANNIES COPE SNEED’S COPE AND SEED COPE GUCCI LOAFERS SNEED JANNY FUCK FEED SNEED’S FOR FREE JANNIES SEETHE PARK AVENUE MANICURE AND FANCY GERMAN CAR FUCK PARK AVENUE MANICURE PARK AVENUE MANICURE DILATE FUCK CHUCK’S CHUCK’S I CAN’T SNEED JANNY ON LEMMY JANNIES SNEED SEETHE CHUCK’S
