There are two wolves inside me.
- This is horrible, no one should have to live through that.
- lol get dunked on plays Toby Fox’s Dogsong sped up
No. We said the same thing for the last 8 years, and people like you thumbed your nose at us like little children. Consequences of your actions.
tbf these people have been misled by tons of lies and propaganda by the republican party
Did someone try to mislead them? Yes. Are they idiots for believing them? Also yes. Did they turn a blind eye when it was happening to other people? Yes. Are they sad now that it affects them? Oh yes. Am I sad that they are seeing the consequences of their actions? Hell no.
Other people have been paying for their stupidity for too long. About time they do some “finding out” given how they’ve been all too happy to do some “fucking around”
That’s fair.
But it’s also fair to call them what they are. Fucking idiots.
All the knowledge in the world is at everyone’s fingertips now. It’s a choice to be stupid as hell.
I got a typical public education. I’m not dumb enough to vote for Republicans.
I think the point of propaganda is that it works, so they don’t realize they’re stupid and need to look elsewhere.
They shove it down their throats that the other sources are all lies so they think they’re being smart, and it’s been happening their entire lives.
So while they’re idiots, I’m not sure how much of a choice it is for a lot of them. They were manufactured that way.
The point they have with the propaganda is they hate people. “Ban all muslims” followed by a cheering crowd “build a wall” followed by cheering people. “I didnt lose the election they cheated–get them!” followed by a mob of thugs assaulting cops.
Its really not that nuanced. They just hate people. That’s all their is to it. If they don’t have hate in their hearts they wouldn’t vote for trump. He’s not even good for the economy for anyone who pays attention.
But when their parents were fed propaganda all their life and then they get born and it’s just passed on as if it’s normal, perpetuated by the ever increasing propaganda.
There’s a lot of hate out there, and some people would probably end up that way regardless, but even that is being intentionally bred through the generations. The level of hate is way beyond what it should be nowadays though if people weren’t spoon fed it all the time.
hate is not passed on like genetics.
I’ve known people who become spiteful/hate-filled over time because they like to have a punching bag, someone underneath them if they have sorry lives. Some of them just plain ol like to hate people. This is not nuanced. Some people are just terrible, awful human beings. We don’t have to cross examine their upbringing to understand this.
One of my best friends growing up around berkeley had hippy parents, he is now a racist trumper. Parents had nothing to do with it. And his half sibling is part african american. You can’t reason with shit people, and theres no point in trying to. He loudly claims that white people need their own country. He can go fuck himself without nuance.
Not by genetics no, but taught by parents and the circle they’re brought up in who are also hateful, and hateful news they’re told is the only news to watch.
Some people are terrible regardless absolutely, but the sheer amount of it were seeing right now is being generated by bad actors.
You need to have some intelligence to know how dumb you really are. The real criminals are the churches who back the grift thinking it will unleash some Christian utopia instead of the feudal system we left way back in the past when we decided Kings have got to go.
I said this exact same thing a couple weeks ago when someone was whining about “working class solidarity”. “Oh boo hoo they were conned and manipulated” How come I can consume the exact same media as them and see through the bullshit? I’m really supposed to feel sorry for them? We’ve been telling them for decades they’re being lied to; they enjoy it.
If this were the first time Trump was president, then fine, but it fucking ain’t.
Sure, and they enjoyed participating in the hateful rhetoric and the discrimination of the outgroup that entire time, made them feel superior, until they found out they were part of the outgroup themselves.
It’s interesting that they’re still unable to see the connection between minority groups. For MAGA there is no difference between trans, Muslim, immigrant. They use the racism minority groups have against each other… and that’s how we got here today.
I think that there’s been more than enough time for these people to look into the man they’re supporting, definitely more than enough to sift through ‘fake news’.
See how that seems completely fucking unrealistic to expect from any MAGAt? Lies and propaganda work because the people absorbing it are actually too stupid to determine the truth and need someone to think for them.
They probably think they are getting the truth so they don’t think they need to look any further into it.
I have seen enough that I know I don’t like and I don’t agree in general with JD Vance, for instance, so I’m not going out to find redeeming qualities about him. I’m also not really watching things from him or trump for that matter. But, my brother who ended up going the opposite way of me politically, said the other day that Vance is “down to earth” and will likely go for president after trump. I see clips all the time of him speaking that show me he’s not down to earth, but I’m also not seeing clips of him tailored to show me that it is true.
I can imagine that if you’re only being fed the positive narratives of your side and only negative things about the “other” side you’re likely to think you already know what’s going on. We also know that both media and the almighty algorithms (like YouTube) will send you down these rabbit holes in the interest of views. If i don’t search, most of what I get about Vance from algorithm based social media are the memes with his distorted face. If that’s all you see, you’re probably coming away with the impression that this guy is a joke. So if you tell me he’s competent and down to earth, my initial reaction is that’s nonsense. Is he? Maybe. It’s not what I see and I’ve felt no need to look for it.
I have always been a nerd on the internet, so i have always been on these kinds of sites like Lemmy, reddit, imgur, old forums, where I can talk to people from all over the world. They have their echo chambers and little bubbles but it’s still a more diverse group of opinions than what you’re fed on sites like Facebook. But the usage on these sites is much lower, most people are not here. They’re either not using social media at all, or they’re on Facebook, tiktok, whatever. They’re only seeing the cropped images, edited clips, news that caters to what they want to believe. If everything’s telling you one thing, including things your friends and family are sharing online, why would you question it.
I understand the reality of what you’re saying.
However, and this will seem harsh, it is stupid not to question the things you’re being told. It takes a stupid person to allow themselves to be convinced to vote against their basic interests for the low, low, price of getting to be racist. It doesn’t matter if your entire world tells you otherwise.
I agree. I don’t know if I got lucky in that i have consistently been told to question things through my life by teachers, by my parents (who don’t question things anymore), by people online.
I also think it’s just how people work. What is it, every dictatorship has used propaganda to convince people they want these things? People heard trump say he needed to be a dictator for a day and they were happy about it. The only difference is it’s easier to do now i would think.
I do consider myself lucky in that regard, as well.
Unfortunately, yes — I agree. It has never been easier to convince people of ‘the truth’ than it has today. There’s an argument to be made that it’s never been easier to debunk bullshit as well, however Brandolini’s Law is still very relevant.
I’m sorry about your brother, and your parents. My mom is the only sane one in my family left, the rest are Trumpers or centrist liberals.
goooooooo fuck yourself Chica. This is what you voted for. Dumb cunt.
Why would anyone show compassion when they can joke about it from positions of extreme privilege? There’s even a whole comm for it! smh.
Instead of giving her the leopards treatment, maybe we should be welcoming people like this who want to change allegiances.
Changed allegiance? After she voted orange turd in for a second term? And only after she was personally hit with the consequences of her own doing?
Ask the people who are now in concentration camps awaiting deportation who are being separated from their kids and other family about what they think of such nazi supporters.
an imperfect ally is still an ally. We need to cut it with the purity tests on the left or we’re never going to win.
She will just do it again. You can’t fix stupid.
People learn.
“It is your concern when your neighbor’s wall is on fire” 🔥
- Horace
Your argument is a straw man, isn’t it? Of course people can say “you voted for it, you deserve it, what the fuck were you thinking” and also say “come join the protest next week if you actually found your sense of human decency”. That is all perfectly consistent.
When informed adults whine about what they predictably lost based on their own bad decisions, of course their complaints will fall on deaf ears. But if they want to take action to make things better, nobody will get in their way.
No, I am all out of compassion. She is on her own.
It’s not about compassion at all. We need more numbers.
But you already got her right? Any extra energy spent here isn’t a great investment.
If you believe in game theory then you have to tit-for-tat sometimes even if your goal is to be nice and inclusive.
I’m not necessarily advocating for extra energy spent here. I’m advocating for not rubbing the salt into the wound by mocking her, like others are doing in this thread. Doesn’t exactly seem like a good way to be welcoming to new converts.
Womp womp. Unfortunately, fascism is real.
Can anyone explain how people with undocumented immigrants in their family were tricked into voting for trump? Makes zero sense to me.
There’s a great book that covers decades of research on this topic. It’s free, too.
Interesting thanks for the link.
Colonialism cannot simply subjugate minorities with violent force alone, it isn’t enough to turn people against their homes.
Colonialism must divide people with fear and make them pick sides against their heart so that the oppression of Colonialism is distracted from by the oppression of people hurting each other as they try to claw their way up through brutal racist, classist conditions all the while being lectured by white people.
It doesn’t have to make sense to you why people would vote against their interests, you must simply understand that it is essential for authoritarian control and thus rich people have gotten very good at convincing people to do it in the US.
You can only have a class based system where certain groups are excluded from enjoying decent lives if there is always a sales pitch being made to a minority group that if they betray their own interests to help white people come out on top again then they will be let into the white club. Whiteness dies without that and yet whiteness can never really let anybody in who isn’t white without dying itself.
Focus your anger on the immense incongrituities of this situation not the fact that it hurts people so bad they can’t see clearly with their heart anymore.
Morons, they are morons.
This is harsh but it definitely seems like a fundamental lack of critical thinking. I genuinely have trouble understanding this behavior otherwise.
I wouldn’t rule that out, but I also wouldn’t jump straight to that conclusion. Spanish news media in this country is beyond screwed, it skews even more right-wing as a rule than English mainstream media, in my opinion. During the 2020 election, I would watch the news on Univision with my mother-in-law sometimes, and would see them just not translate something a democrat said in English that didn’t fit their agenda, misrepresent what they said in the translation, or selectively omit things they said to make their remarks sound much more sinister and authoritarian than what they actually said. They were also constantly pushing right-wing conspiracies that had been debunked weeks or months prior, with no mention of their having been disproven.
I would constantly have my mother-in-law coming to me asking about these old ass conspiracies, because with her only knowing Spanish, that would be the first time she heard of them, and she was shocked we weren’t freaking out about it.
More leaning to the morons side, despite how Fox likes to portray immigrants as a monolithic group of rabid socialist and commies backing the Dems so they can destroy the constitution and get gulags up and running, a lot of immigrants from Latin America, Africa and the Caribbean have been fairly conservative, in my experience. A lot of them grew up heavily propagandized by right wing regimes in their home countries, many are much more religious than your average American by birth, and others have had negative experiences with nominally left-wing regimes in their home country that they can’t get over. The last one can be kind of understandable, but the other two drive me crazy.
My parents escaped Communist Yugoslavia to Australia. Even I started off right wing until about age 30. Therein I voted Greens (not like the dodgy US Greens BTW) and after a while convinced my parents too.
I am still aware of how the extreme left can become authoritarian as happened in Yugoslavia. Tankies are oblivious. Need to be vigilant whichever party you side with.
i take issue with calling tankies left, them saying they’re leftists doesn’t make it true. “nazi” comes from “national socialist”, but that’s obviously not what they actually were.
Am not sure that any label can really work perfectly anyhow. I posed to an Australian Greens Senator in the pub the following:
If Greens ever become one of the two major parties then the ruthless power seekers will gravitate towards your party instead of the current major parties. How will the party be able to spot the wolves in sheep’s clothing?
His answer was “I don’t know. We discuss that often.”
Which struck me as the response of an honest and genuine person.
Seems like we need some left leaning Spanish outlets
Same as many other trump voters, pure disillusion and desperation with the status quo. They buy the lie instead.
I read somewhere that none of Trump’s talk of mass, indiscriminate deportation was translated, like in their Spanish language ads. All of the Spanish language ads were supposedly geared towards “nooooo lmao we’re only going to deport violent criminals and drug lords!”
Hmpf; propa mother fucking ganda style.
/ed:your comment is actually really insightful.
They’re lying. They weren’t tricked. Trump openly and repeatedly showed how he felt about immigrants of all kinds. Everyone knew it, everyone knows it, everyone will always know it.
What actually happened is that these people decided to focus on other things. They told themselves a story about how bad the Democrats are, perhaps, which isn’t that hard because there are so many dirty politicians in Washington.
Also, even immigrants can be racist. It’s easy enough for someone to think that the other group of “bad” minorities will be targeted, not their own, because they too want someone to spit on. The same thing is true for many poor white MAGA voters too, right? Trump’s policies are devastating for rural America, but if you’d rather have hate than healthcare, you’re getting what you voted for.
They’re lying. They weren’t tricked. Trump openly and repeatedly showed how he felt about immigrants of all kinds. Everyone knew it, everyone knows it, everyone will always know it.
This is a cruel delusion you tell yourself, obviously the people you are referring to exist and there are lots of them and they should be shamed the way you are shaming them but there are far more scared, desperate people who feel as total strangers in a crowd of faces that stare at them as if they don’t fit in that you casually throw under the bus along with the genuine fascists… and make that mistake at our peril my friend.
Plenty of people were tricked, no not everybody knew it, heck tons of people didn’t even know Biden had dropped out of the presidential race when they went into vote, and no matter how you feel about it I simply will not let you make negative conclusions about immigrants and other minorities that were tricked into voting against their interests without any actual evidence to back it up.
Cite your sources, or stop claiming that immigrants and others weren’t tricked. This is a toxic narrative and it must be stopped in its tracks.
It is our job as leftists to speak to these people who are afraid and say “don’t take my word for it, see how these people who claim to support you are trying to kill, maim and destroy you and your families”, and NOT our job to lambast these people for entering into a cruel battle royale for reasons we could only really ever judge if we were in their shoes and doing badly.
Plenty of people were tricked, no not everybody knew it, heck tons of people didn’t even know Biden had dropped out of the presidential race when they went into vote
Yoive set a really really low bar there for personal responsibility. At some stage adults have to take responsibility for their actions.
If you are so disengaged from US Politics you wern’t even aware BEFORE voting that Biden wasn’t on the ticket, then yes, YOU are to blame for that complete disengagement from democracy. I’m not saying you have to be up to speed with the minutiae of wording across the policy space but to not even be aware of the candidates ?.. come on, they shouldn’t even be let out of the house, let alone voting ffs.
First time maybe, second term there is absolutely no excuse
Fascists aren’t people. Logic and self interest does not apply.
It’s all libidnal desire to not think, a rejection of a world that demands they grow and change. A rejection of complexity, of knowledge, of responsibility.
Critical thinking does not apply. Their whole way of being runs counter to that. There is no self awareness, no imagination¹, not even self preservation.
Even what you and i think of as communication serves a different purpose for them. It’s like the husks from ‘mass effect’ but more so.
¹older versions of fascism actually had imagination. It was a thing. Filtered out; creates too much complexity.
Careful here… while I agree with your anger, you’re using the same language used to dehumanize vulnerable populations. Everyone, including horrible people like Steven Miller, deserve basic human dignity. They deserve fairness, due process, and every human right. But unrepentant fascists don’t deserve our attention, our sympathy, forgiveness, or reprieve from justice (repentant ones are more complex and not addressed here).
To treat them as less than human is to risk becoming like them. When you fight monsters, you must take extra care to avoid becoming a monster yourself, after all.
There’s this thing they do. Basic schoolyard bully shit. Accusing someone else of the thing you’re gonna do, so when you do it, the victim sounds like theyre just copying you.
I’ve read neitzsche, by the way. There’s a lot of nuance to what that part actually means. Just quoting it to excuse the libshit you already believed (or think you do) is kind of missing the entire point of that philosophy.
Fully agree with you, and touché on the glib use of the quote. I wasn’t trying to invoke the full depth of Nietzsche. I’m merely cautioning against crossing the line between condemning disgusting actions and labeling the people themselves as disgusting. I’m appealing to humility and humanity: a recognition that we aren’t inherently “better” than the worst of them. In order to be different from them, we have to act differently.
We don’t have to agree, we don’t have to sympathize, but failing to see their humanity no matter how unconscionable their actions blurs the line between us and them, and that’s a line I prefer to keep as clear as possible.
I am curious what you see in my comment that is “libshit”, though. I don’t personally see how the invocation of human rights and dignity is liberalism by any reading.
Sorry for the wall of text, but so often your position is espoused by reactionary bigots who think being born the right species is inherently virtuous, that there’s a fundamental mystical essential ‘humanness’ to give us some baseline value, and that nothing else could ever deserve those considerations, and call me a monster for considering fucking nuance, or the ways i am, as a human, capable of sucking. It’s uncannily close to fascism and i can get somewhat emotional about it.
You’re good. :)
People are hurt right now, and hurt mammals respond defensively (universally AFAIK). Without pretending to understand what’s going on in your life right now, I want to let you know that I see you. I’m sure your anger is justified.
And if you think I’m preaching from some pulpit, I’m not. I am using writing this reply to avoid engaging in a situation that has a good chance of triggering some of my own recent trauma. I’m also not someone who uses the word “trauma” in the recent pop-psych sense. I mean it in a clinical sense.
Even though I disagree with some of what you’re saying and believe it is counter-productive to the end goals that I think we share (assumption based on your comments), I don’t think you’re a monster. You deserve the space to be angry and to express that, as does everyone.
If you’re willing, I’m interested to learn how I could better express my position succinctly without crossing into the rhetoric that you have read as close to fascism. That’s not who I am trying to be and I would like to learn how to do that better. No obligation. I already appreciate your willingness to engage in good faith.
(working on response to other comment, but it’s more nuanced)
Immigrant here. No english means same info from the internet. Usual thought process goes :
“Right are working class farmers so left must be the CEOs. Like in my country except they are switched. Makes sense.”
Lolololololol
Nah. Good luck with that though, dipshit.
Congratulations. You got what you voted for. I seriously hope you learned that lesson.
Untill the next grifter comes around the corner
Narrator: “She didn’t”
It is baffling how anyone couldn’t see this shit show coming. I constantly feel like I’m the subject of a long running prank.
They knew it would happen. I don’t believe for a second anyone didn’t see this happening.
They are sadly that stupid. I was wrapping up a job and talking to the customer ( die hard trump freak ) , typical " yeah, nice weather this weekend, hope you have a nice vacation this summer etc.".
Somehow the price of “things” comes up and this lady says "yeah it’s like the extended warranty on my car! They keep raising the rates every year and I think I’ve paid them as much as the car cost me used! But at least i know if it breaks down ill be covered "
😭😭😭 Noooo you stupid idiot ! That is a fucking scam ! Everyone knows that!
Well, they are the people that fall for all that dumb ass shit. I don’t understand how they live so long and have nice homes. I just can’t figure it out.
And they’ll find a way to blame democrats or something
The leopard’s eaten good this summer.
“So…many…faces!!”
