The “Uncommitted” movement seeking a change in the Democratic Party’s approach to the war in Gaza on Thursday announced it is not ready to support Democratic presidential nominee Kamala Harris — while urging voters not to back Republican nominee Donald Trump or third-party candidates who could help Trump win the November election.

The “Uncommitted” group “opposes a Donald Trump presidency, whose agenda includes plans to accelerate the killing in Gaza while intensifying the suppression of anti-war organizing,” the statement continues. Additionally, the group is “not recommending a third-party vote in the Presidential election, especially as third party votes in key swing states could help inadvertently deliver a Trump presidency given our country’s broken electoral college system.”

  • TheHiddenCatboy@lemmy.worldOP
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    68
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    2 months ago

    I can get behind this. Sure, we can criticise Team Blue for slow-dragging their feet on protecting Palestinians. Never said we couldn’t. That said, there’s clear consequences to a Trump victory. The Uncommitted have made it clear they grasp this and ask you to vote for Harris, even if they can’t endorse Harris. Staying home, voting third party, or heaven forbid, voting Trump will just make things in the Middle East FAR worse.

    • vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      51
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      “Voting is just a way to pick the person that will be sitting across from me at the negotiation table next year”, is one of the ways to think about it.

      Harris‘ policy on Israel is ambiguous, weak and too-little-too-late. But you’ll get further trying to influence her administration than Trump 2.0.

      • Eldritch@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        26
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        2 months ago

        The ambiguity is ironically a good sign. That she isn’t outright committed to the status quo. But rather not willing to signal her actual position. If she came out strongly against Israel and for Palestine. Unfortunately that would be a large hindrance to her candidacy in the current climate.

        It’s a shame that those illegally occupying Palestine have such influence over our government. Especially after their terrorist attacks of the last few days. Not to mention the decades long slow genocide that’s only accelerated in the last year.

        • mightyfoolish@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          2 months ago

          She saw the Genocide Joe protests and is now “ambiguous” on this matter to pretend she isn’t exactly like Biden on this subject.

      • Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        Let’s be honest. Without biden/trump it would be a non issue. Trump would smother out all reporting on the subject replacing it with trauma to the American people.

      • lorty@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        11
        ·
        2 months ago

        Well, your thought experiment actually just agrees with the uncommitted, since if they don’t want to negotiate now that they want your vote, what hope you have after you lost that leverage?

        • vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          12
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          I do agree with the uncommitted: voting third party because of Palestine is for idiots.

          That said, if you are a political activist, and you think your one vote is the only thing you have to offer, you need a new ducking job.

    • gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      38
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      2 months ago

      For real, that’s all I’ve been saying whenever people start come in and start bashing on Harris and pushing false equivalence. Like, yeah, Biden is super bad on his policy towards Israel and Gaza; I HOPE Harris will be better; I KNOW Trump will be worse.

      That’s it. That’s the whole dynamic. That’s the only two choices we have as members of the American electorate.

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        arrow-down
        32
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        bashing on Harris and pushing false equivalence

        You claim the Ds and Rs are the same, but you can very clearly see that the Ds are in favor of 10% less infanticide.

        That’s the only two choices we have

        The genocidiers have us by the balls, folks. Nothing you can do but voice your full throated support for one of them.

        • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          2 months ago

          The genocidiers have us by the balls, folks. Nothing you can do but voice your full throated support for one of them.

          Not only that, you must also shout down anybody who says they don’t want to support genocide. Only full loyalty is acceptable.

          Oh so you’re likely voting dem anyway because you aren’t stupid and/or racist but you also say Harris should abide by US law and stop arms sales to Israel? WOW LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE A TRUMP SUPPORTER HERE BOYS

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            2 months ago

            It is deeply fucked the way social media has conflated opposing genocide and supporting The Other Team.

            Really reeks of the Bush Era “You’re with us or you’re with the Terrorists!” when it came time to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.

        • mightyfoolish@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          2 months ago

          Don’t you understand the difference? All of them can die of rape and starvation as of now or all of them can die of rape and starvation while Trump is president.

          CaNt YoU SeE tHE DiFeReNcE? (This was annoying to type on mobile.)

          These people are delusional. Somehow there’s many situations we can’t do anything about (like our politicians cannot even show disapproval over rape country called Israel even though we are their biggest benefactors) yet somehow not voting Democrat is the end of the world. We cannot do anything to make anything better but putting pressure on politicians is also bad. Oh, how convenient. Why can’t they admit they have to think of their own interests first (at least the few things the Democrats will allow them).

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            2 months ago

            CaNt YoU SeE tHE DiFeReNcE? (This was annoying to type on mobile.)

            A for effort

            Somehow there’s many situations we can’t do anything about (like our politicians cannot even show disapproval over rape country called Israel even though we are their biggest benefactors) yet somehow not voting Democrat is the end of the world.

            Was listening to a WTYP episode about stealth jets, and they priced all the different kinds of aircraft in “multiples of ending national poverty”. ($10B is the current working figure)

            The F-22s we used to shot down Chinese weather super spy balloons came in at 20x the cost. That’s the only combat mission the plane has flown since it entered service over a decade ago.

            Why can’t they admit they have to think of their own interests first

            These numbers are so big and these systems are so vast that it’s easy to lose sight of them entirely. The idea that we could all live very comfortable happy lives if a tiny minority were to stop the war profiteering is very difficult for your retail Democrat voter to grasp.

            • mightyfoolish@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              2 months ago

              That’s the only combat mission the plane has flown since it entered service over a decade ago.

              Interesting story. I do wonder if any of this equipment was made to be used or is there “just in case.”

              The idea that we could all live very comfortable happy lives if a tiny minority were to stop the war profiteering is very difficult for your retail Democrat voter to grasp.

              This is a great summary of the issue.

        • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          2 months ago

          So you’re saying I should still vote for infanticide? I don’t want that kind of blood on my hands. That’s the issue in the Trolley Problem.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            2 months ago

            I don’t want that kind of blood on my hands.

            The joke of the modern American electoral system is that all the “viable” candidates are bloody. And if you abstain from voting or vote third party, you’re accused of supporting the winning candidate, regardless of your personal politics.

            That is, I think, a big part of what drives the street protests. Americans who don’t want to be complicit in this barbarity have no other actionable way to express their condemnation.

          • Asafum@feddit.nl
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            2 months ago

            Not voting is just allowing the worse option which still puts blood on your hands. Inaction still has consequences.

            We don’t live in a world where we have the ability to be completely pure, it’s an option that simply doesn’t exist unfortunately. :(

        • holycrap@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          2 months ago

          The path to ending the conflict is through boycotts, not the president. But that takes time, so 10% less killing makes sense as a stop gap.

          There is precedent for this. See apartheid South Africa. Palestinian freedom will seem impossible until it becomes inevitable.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            2 months ago

            The path to ending the conflict is through boycotts, not the president.

            US House overwhelmingly passes anti-BDS resolution

            We’ve already seen individual states go so far as to issue state sanctions aimed at BDS movements. US House Resolution 246 seems to be an exercise in vote counting by the AIPAC Lobby to advance a national bill to the same effect.

            Palestinian freedom will seem impossible until it becomes inevitable.

            The South African Apartheid system likely would have held up indefinitely if the US was the only country involved deciding its fate. And the Afrikaners had far less influence over the US Congress than the Israel lobby.

            • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              2 months ago

              Pressure needs to be applied everywhere, from awareness by friends/family to personal BDS to local representatives to DNC delegates to Presidents. Anti-genocide and anti-apartheid momentum has made great strides in the last year, it’s critical to keep that momentum growing. This will definitely be more difficult than the South African Anti-Apartheid movement

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          2 months ago

          You claim the Ds and Rs are the same, but you can very clearly see that the Ds are in favor of 10% less infanticide.

          Be fair. They’re in favor of 10% slower infanticide.

    • Thanks for this comment, clearing it up!

      I was about to ask this - because if they aren’t endorsing Harris but also asking folks not to vote for the GOP or third parties, then who should we vote for? Surely they’re not saying stay at home and don’t vote, right? (That was the only possibility that seemed not covered by the post’s description.)

      So another way to look at it is - (if one ignores the way they mince words and instead just looks at the practical effect then) they are in fact endorsing Harris, but in a muted fashion to express their displeasure over Harris’s stance on Gaza.

    • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      2 months ago

      Sure, we can criticise Team Blue for slow-dragging their feet on protecting Palestinians.

      HA.

    • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      20
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      Biden isn’t dragging his feet…

      He’s moving at light ing speed (for his age) to support Israel’s genocide in anyway he can, including going around congress illegally to avoid a delay of just a few days.

      I just hate how all the blame is put on voters, it’s literally Kamala and her campaign teams job to get votes, and despite how much they hate the thought, that means giving Dem voters what Dem voters want.

      And they don’t want to be citizens of pretty much the only country still supporting the genocide by sending munitions. Especially when it’s a violation of the Legacy Lehey law and bare minimum we should be demanding Israel track the use of US supplied munitions.

      Like. You’re completely underselling the damage Biden and other party leaders are causing…

      And then claiming you can’t understand why people don’t like him or the party’s stance.

      Why dont you spend your time and effort trying to stop a genocide instead of telling people they have to support a genocide?

      Your way even if we win. Still a genocide.

      If we demand Kamala and party leadership stop breaking US and international law, and they actually listen

      Kamala could moonwalk into the oval office and Israel wouldn’t be able to continue their genocide.

      What’s so hard about picking the best path?

      We can stop trump and genocide or just stop trump.

      Seems like an easy choice to me

      • makyo@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        I mean if I understand you correctly you’re saying bascially the same thing as OP - can hold Biden/Harris feet to the fire while working to re-elect Kamala and defeat Trump.

        • TheHiddenCatboy@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          2 months ago

          And the fun part is these aren’t my words. These are the words of the “Uncommitted” faction that wants to hold Democrats’ feet to the fire. They’re saying that at the moment, there’s bigger fish to fry – a MAGAt movement that would make everything Team Blue has done look like child’s play in comparison. So, Mr. Give Some Fucks isn’t just arguing with me. He’s arguing with the guys and gals actually advocating for Palestinians.

    • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      20
      ·
      2 months ago

      Sure, we can criticise Team Blue for slow-dragging their feet on protecting Palestinians.

      Incredibly generous way to put it. They are providing the weapons that maim and kill the innocent children. I criticise them for the blood on their hands