I wanna read something that’s fucking brutal with fighting and sex and all the things, but also WELL WRITTEN (so NOT George R.R. Martin, I can’t stand his shit). I want Lord of the Rings on crack and steroids.
TIL there’s a sub here for books.
Terry Goodkind wrote the Sword of Truth series beginning with The Wizard’s First rule in 1994, with 17 books in the main series and I believe still ongoing. Not much sex, but it has the brutality down, and is very well written.
Goes weird and hard to follow after the 4th book. Even the 4th was a bit of a drag
Love the series, read it multiple times. It seems to get a lot of hate but I don’t get why. I like the story, hate the villains, and can get invested in the characters. Plus it’s very adult. My favorites series hands down.
There are two aspects to it, one the books, and second the author. Author isn’t very likable, if you read some of his interviews you will understand. His opinion about himself, about fantasy, and general readers (and authors) of fantasy can be a bit annoying. As for the books, they sometimes have very stupid writing.
It has been a long time since I read the series, but one scene that I remember on top of my head, there was a woman (or group of them), who has to escape / pass through the whole army, so they go topless, cause then all the men in army will not be looking at their face and won’t recognize them.
There were many other things like that.
First off, that scene isn’t so they don’t recognize their faces. It’s to look like spirits and scare/shock them. They were a small army trying to use crazy tactics, I don’t see what’s so wrong about that. I’ve read it multiple times and I don’t remember a point where they go topless implying no one would ever look at their face if they were topless.
As for the author, I don’t know much about him, but I like the books. And way I think Michael Jackson is a bad person but I can still enjoy his music.
I absolutely understand why people hate it. on lemmy, probably because of themes that could be interpreted as being anti communist. In the real world, because of how it mocks religion quite viciously, and promotes critical thinking.
Also multiple strong female characters who are well written, that really pisses people off.
Lol, the “strong female characters” and critical thinking of The Sword of Truth series. Might as well push Atlas Shrugged because “it’s got a female author”
i haven’t actually read Atlas Shrugged, probably should considering how often it’s referenced in discussions on literature.
It’s hard to get through… it’s huge, but keeps bludgeoning you with the same cartoonish ideas over and over again until you’re just exhausted. Kind of worth reading, just because it does come up in discussions so often, but don’t necessarily expect to enjoy it.
I regret that I have but one downvote to give. Wizard’s First Rule is literally the worst book I ever read. (A lot of people do seem to like it, though.)
I’m going to choose to interpret your comment as charitably as possible, and that your library is the best curated on the planet. What have you been reading?
Hah, I did mean it in the spirit of good discussion. (Though maybe I also feel like I have a sacred mission to keep the unwary from inadvertently Goodkinding themselves!)
I’ve actually been having a hard time getting into anything new lately for some reason, but I recently reread C. S. Friedman’s Coldfire and Magister series (serieses? trilogies), which are kind of dark, but not so “gritty, gorey” that I thought they’d be a good recommendation for this thread. The former in particular is excellent, and they’re both fairly unusual takes on fantasy.
Wizard’s First Rule is the only tolerable book, if barely. They’re all thinly veiled (not thinly veiled) fetish writing, or high school level political theory.
At a certain point it’s clear that Terry fired enough editors that the remaining ones stopped trying.
Yeah Wizard’s First Rule even had a decent stopping point at the end, iirc? That or by the third or so. Good enough read if you’re an edgy teen.
The Blade Itself
I came here to recommend The First Law trilogy. It’s the definition of gritty
I didnt like the ending, but yeah. I guess the follow on books are good too but I haven’t tried them.
The follow up book about Caul Shivers is possibly even better than the original trilogy. Check it out.
I’m with you, the ending of the 3rd book deflated me and actually lowered my opinions on the first 2 books. I’m curious whether the follow-up books do anything to fix it, but I can’t find the motivation to read them now.
They don’t fix it but they’re good. Really enjoyed Best Served Cold.
TBF I actually meant the ending of the first book. I haven’t gone back to the series to finish it. I expected bloody nine content starting book two and it wasn’t.
I’ve been hyping up Dresden Files in damn near every book thread for the last four months, but damn if it doesn’t fit here too. There’s sex and murder in nearly every one of the books. The murder is very rarely clean, and the stakes are never low. Jim Butcher is one of my very favorite authors now, by a significant margin.
I just finished reading through the entire series a month or two ago - what a fantastic series.
It has completely consumed my life for the last several months. I’m partway through Changes right now. I can’t remember the last time I was this completely absorbed in a book series.
My guilty pleasure. His books draw me in but some of the sexism/arrogance (especially in earlier books) makes me cringe. Doesn’t stop me from staying up too late to finish one if I’ve started. Butcher knows how to keep me hooked.
His newer series the cinder spires is quite good as well.
Dresden Files are great. One of my favourite series. I am going through all the books slowly, don’t want to run out of them before the next one releases. Generally read a book every month or so. Last one I read was White Night. Going to start Small Favor when I am done with my current book.
Richard k. Morgan’s foray into to fantasy “the steel remains” trilogy might meet that requirement. He’s the guy who wrote the altered carbon books, so it’s basically hard-boiled pulp fiction applied to swords and sorcery fantasy. Similarly Joe Abercrombie’s books operate similarly. Genre is… Grimdark I think.
Steven Erickson’s “Malazan book of the fallen” series also would meet the definition, but watch out—there’s a ton of them, and they can be a bit narratively challenging sometimes.
Man I got stuck on like book 4 of Malazan I think, it’s been a long time. Still have the books though, I should take another stab at it.
I’m still slowly working my way… think I’m in book 7 maybe? I sometimes find it hard with series where they change focuses and stories a lot, and malazan does that every book (the whole changing location every other book thing) and I also sometimes have trouble keeping track or who all the characters are, and who is dead, alive, or only sorta dead. But they are very high quality, even if I don’t always understand what is going on. Anyhow there’s so much of it I just dip in and out and will read other stuff for a while—definitely a marathon series haha
The Poppy Wars which had an eastern theme.
The Prince of Nothing series which is quite grimdark in a fantasy setting.
The Crimson Empire series is a darkish revenge story.
The Covenant of Steel about a poor boy rising through the ranks.
The Rhenwar Saga involves more magic than the rest.
Lies of Locke Lamora is beautifully written gritty fantasy. Thus far there are 3 books in the series.
I’ve never read the Warhammer 40K books so I can speak to the quality of writing, but the series definitely matches the genre of interest.
I really enjoyed reading 40k books when I was younger, but they’re generally shit writing. The kind of complete schlock that is good when you want to turn off the brain.
The First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie is a fine example of grimdark high fantasy. It isn’t overflowing with sex scenes, but carnal relationships are definitely in play.
I loved this and the other trilogy of his that I’ve read, brutal and dark certainly, but his character writing is mint. I need to read more of his stuff!
And it definitely ticks the box for “fucking brutal.”
I’ll add it to the list! Thank you!
I don’t like what he does with his characters. Poor characters of Joe Abercrombie’s world!
I’m no stranger to dark fantasy but reading best served cold even I was like “God damn, he’s going there too?” So that’s a +1 from me
Mark Lawrence - Prince of Thorns. Loose fit but it scratches that itch for me anyway. Maybe it will for you too.
Might I recommend the Night Angel trilogy by Brent Weeks?
Another vote for anything Steven Erikson or R Scott Bakker
Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Thomas_Covenant
Cenotaph Road series by Robert E. Vardeman. More sci fi than fantasy, but fantasy adjacent sci-fi.
I’ll look into it. I’m a little sc-fi’d out at the moment, but if it’s adjacent, it might do. Thanks for the recommendation!
Covenant is fantasy, so that might be the ticket
The Gap Cycle is SciFi, though. Its fairy fuckin dark.
Do you like swords and sorcery? Sounds more like that genre than high fantasy. Not that I’m the genre police.
I didn’t even know that was a thing, so yes, I’ll take it!
Cool. It’s mostly older stuff but here’s some info:
Check out the work of Fritz Lieber especially his Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser Series. They are short stories but compiled into books now. Great intro to sword and sorcery.
Also the book series as a huge influence on DnD since Gary Gygax was a big fan
If you’d be up for modern fantasy you might enjoy Neil Gaiman’s Neverwhere, or American Gods.
For high fantasy, Brando Sando has violence aplenty but not sex. I really like the Stormlight Archives.
I also wouldn’t write off the Shattered Sea series by Joe Abercrombie. Yes, they’re labelled YA but it just makes them easier to binge.
The Black Company by Glenn Cook is pretty dark. It’s about a band of mercenaries taking part in a world war where there are basically no good guys. The first book stands well on its own, but it is part of a trilogy.
I’ll add it to the list!
Gods yes, awesome series for sure.
The world and the story is interesting, but for some reason I didn’t like how the book is written. Have only read the first book though, got the whole trilogy as omnibus, so will eventually get to the next two books.
While I enjoyed the whole trilogy, IMO the first book is definitely the best. If you didn’t care for its style, you probably won’t enjoy the other two.
They both have some DOPE set pieces tho
Thanks for the info!
I read John Ringo when I was younger (early 20’s); it has a lot of what you are looking for.
I wouldn’t call it high art, but the writing is fairly good.
